1. #1
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    Exclamation I'm Not Giving To The Red Cross.......

    Before you open Fire, hear me out. I have a problem with giving a $10.00 contribution, if only a few Dollars (say 3) actually make to someone who needs it. Organizations like the Red Cross do good work, but they have enormous overhead, including high-paid executives and posh offices. I just want to do something more direct or personal. After 9-11, my VFD raised some money and donated it the the fund established by FDNY's Squad 18. A "Firefighter to Firefighter" effort. I'm looking to do the same again, for a VFD in the La-Miss area, not the "Big Name" charities. My purpose in posting my opinion on this? To ask that you consider doing the same. In fact, I have a hunch that "Helping Our Own" will soon be getting requests for help from VFDs in the devestated area. Let's ALL pull together and help those Brothers and Sisters who need help now. Volunteer or Career is not important. Helping one another is.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Harve,

    Not a bad idea, but let me say this. After being deployed with TNTF-1 on 9-11-01 to the Pentagon, there was nothing that we needed after the Red Cross arrived. They provided food, water, toiletries, dry socks, shower shoes, everything we needed and more. I understand your point of view, but its hard for me to knock them.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  3. #3
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    Smile Ok...........

    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    Harve,

    Not a bad idea, but let me say this. After being deployed with TNTF-1 on 9-11-01 to the Pentagon, there was nothing that we needed after the Red Cross arrived. They provided food, water, toiletries, dry socks, shower shoes, everything we needed and more. I understand your point of view, but its hard for me to knock them.
    Thanks Bob, I probably could have stated my position a bit differently. What they do, they do well. I just want to make a difference directly to somone in need, not have my donation go toward paying the Executive Salaries.......
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

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    Our membership has agreed to donate some funds from our association's emergency fund to the disaster. I am planning to write a cheque on Monday, but before I do, If not the red cross, who else?

    I like the idea of supporting Helping Our Own, but is that what is needed most right NOW?
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    We are splitting our money between these two:

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Fire Organizations

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    The National Volunteer Fire Council (NVFC) has established an Emergency Relief Fund to aid fire departments who have been impacted by Hurricane Katrina.

    Online donations via the NVFC website at www.nvfc.org will begin to be accepted later this week. However, checks can be mailed to:



    NVFC Emergency Relief Fund
    P.O. Box 223202
    Chantilly, VA 20153

    ** All contributions are tax-deductible and your cancelled check will serve as your receipt.



    Equipment Donations

    If you have equipment and supplies that you would like to donate to fire and emergency services departments in the affected areas, the NVFC encourages you to work through your State Emergency Management offices and notify them that you have the equipment. All requests will be put on standby until such time that the items are requested from the impacted states.

    To find contact information for your state Emergency Management office, visit: http://www.fema.gov/fema/statedr.shtm





    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    EMS Organizations

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Many members of the EMS community are asking what they can do to help their fellow medics affected by Hurricane Katrina. As NAEMT members know, after 9-11, NAEMT established the EMS and Rescuer Relief Fund to collect money for the victims of the disaster. That fund remains operational.

    NAEMT urges anyone who is able to make a financial donation to send a check to the



    NAEMT EMS and Rescuer Relief Fund c/o the NAEMT Headquarters,

    PO Box 1400,

    Clinton, MS 39060-1400.

    Credit card donations can be made by calling 1-800-34-NAEMT. Individual and corporate donations are welcomed and corporations are encouraged to match employee contributions. NAEMT has pledged to cover the operational costs of the fund, permitting all donations to the fund to be distributed in their entirety.

    The money collected will be made available to EMS professionals who need help re-building their lives in the wake of the Hurricane Katrina. No decisions have been made yet as to precisely when and how the funds will be disseminated. After 9-11, NAEMT disseminated $107,553 to assist the families of EMS workers who died in the line of duty while responding to the terrorist attacks.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods
    Before you open Fire, hear me out. I have a problem with giving a $10.00 contribution, if only a few Dollars (say 3) actually make to someone who needs it.
    FWIW, try more like $9 out of 10. Few organizations can beat that ratio and few private citizens are in any kind of position to put those $9 to good use in a disaster.

    You might want to look into it a bit further and rethink your position.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    Dont forget about the Salvation Army. They do many good things.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    Dont forget about the Salvation Army. They do many good things.
    We have a Salvation Army Chapter here. One day, they started showing up at fires, uncalled. They provided whatever type of food and rink was dictated by the weather. Then, just as quietly, they were gone. One day, one of the chiefs in the County asked them if he could pay them. The crew politely refused.

    These people are about a whole lot more than ringing a bell outside of Macy's.

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    hwoods,
    That was a pretty dumb posting at this time of need. The Red Cross is considered a 4-star charity (the best) and 91.1% of contributions are used for programs/services.
    We don't need stupid posts like yours in this time of need making people question giving to an organization such as the Red Cross.

    Get your facts straight or stop making posts where you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Those people down there need help and need it bad and for you to question the effectiveness of the Red Cross at this time is a disgrace.

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    I agree with hwoods post along with everyone elses. I dont feel he was condoning the red cross at all. The red cross does a great job doing what they do. I think all he was trying to get across was that we have brothers down there that have lost everything and are still trying to do their jobs. I do feel that we should pull together to donate to our own. However as was stated above at this point the red cross and other organizations are trying to help out all of the devestated people. They both really need our support but I feel the red cross and other organizations needs the most help at this point, because they are benefiting everybody including the firefighters and families.
    Steve
    Lietuenant 107
    Morton Township Fire/Rescue
    "Good to Go"

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    The governor of Texas said on TV that if people want to help, they should donate to the Red Cross, or something called Onestar or something like that?

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    Default Delaware Valley Hurricane Relief Fund

    I posted this under the PA state forum here, but since there's a mailing address, I would say anyone can contribute.

    “These funds will go directly toward aiding local first responders in the region whose equipment and ability to effectively serve their community was crippled by the devastation of Hurricane Katrina earlier this week,” said Congressman Weldon.

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=73488
    Last edited by DianeC; 09-03-2005 at 01:08 PM. Reason: fix a typo
    "When I was young, my ambition was to be one of the people who made a difference in this world. My hope is to leave the world a little better for my having been there."
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  13. #13
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    Default Nope.......................... ..

    Quote Originally Posted by kfactor
    hwoods,
    That was a pretty dumb posting at this time of need. The Red Cross is considered a 4-star charity (the best) and 91.1% of contributions are used for programs/services.
    We don't need stupid posts like yours in this time of need making people question giving to an organization such as the Red Cross.

    Get your facts straight or stop making posts where you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Those people down there need help and need it bad and for you to question the effectiveness of the Red Cross at this time is a disgrace.
    OK, I guess some people are having problems with reading comprehension, or they are Red Cross employees. (I suspect the latter) I am interested in helping a VFD in the affected area DIRECTLY. I am deeply concerned that there are small, rural, communities where their local emergency response system is no longer functioning. This would be the place where those of us in the Fire Service could do the most good. I am also worried that the immediate Gulf Coast will soak up all of the aid and attention, and the areas inland will be forgotten. I have no beef with the Red Cross other than the Salaried Executive positions. I just don't feel that I'm making a difference by adding a tiny pebble to a huge pile of stones, I'd rather add my bit where it would do the most good.

    Mikey and George, I concur with your point on the Salvation Army, they've done quite a bit here also.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

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    www.gdvfd18.com

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    Maybe he had the red cross confused with the United Way, they have tremendous "operating explenses" and very little of what they receive goes where the rubber meets the road.

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    I have a hard time believing that anyone can distrubute the aid that is needed quicker then the red cross or salvation army.

    My fire department was part of a 5 engine strike force sent to Biloxi yesterday. We made contact with the local fire departments and found out what they needed for themselves and families. We then loaded up a several staff trucks and took them with the engine companies. On a large scale though, we could not accomplish what the people in the affected areas needed. So we also wrote a check to the red cross. During Ivan last year we were the ones in need and both red cross and fema made sure we had everything we needed. IMO it should not be which agency to give the money too, it should be we need to get our money in the hands of someone can use it NOW.

    The big issue about the percentage that actually gets down to the relief effort is not as big as everyone thinks. With out those plush offices and high paid personel, the red cross wouldnt be able to give half the help they do. Joe Bob's charity can not get the prices that red cross gets on supplies. Buying in bulk and having the political backbone to barter goes a lot further then 10(or40) percent of the total intake.

    Hopefully this debate will end and people will do whatever they decide to get the relief to the people. After all that is the bottom line. At this point I dont think it matters where the help comes from as long as it come quickly.

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    hwoods,
    I have no reading comprehension problem nor am I am a Red Cross employee. I am appalled by what I see down there and the Red Cross is in a good position to provide much needed assistance and relief.

    If you choose to respond in some other way than giving to the Red Cross, etc. that's fine, but don't justify your choice by spreading highly inaccurate information about the overhead/admin expenses of various charities such as the Red Cross. Your $3 out of $10 claim is laughable. I see that you took a poke at me, but didn't offer a retraction or correction to your initial comments.

    jfTL41, on average I don't think the United Way is as effective as the Red Cross, but their numbers aren't too bad. Each local United Way is ranked independently and ranges from lows of around 75% for services for Long Island New York to 92% for Atlanta. I think the fund-raising expenses hurt United Way some. Their admin expenses actually seem pretty low, but as we know, the United Way has some serious fund-raising campaigns that cost money to run.

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    I dont know. I do believe that the local vollys down there will not get all the help that they need. and therefor we should donate to them with a "firefighter to firefighter" type donation.

    However. The red cross really does an amazing amount to help the people devastated and my guess is that they are also helping the responders that need it.

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    I just want to thank everyone who has offered their prayers and support. It means a lot. We're better off than some places but worse than others.
    We are doing a lot with very little, and while it's working alright, we are steadily backing up.

    The Red Cross is blitzing the media with ads for donations. While this is not a bad thing, and they have been doing an "outstanding" job, they are not the only ones who could benefit from your support.

    There are many LOCAL organizations that simply don't get the same "air time" and don't have multi million (donation) dollar advertising campaigns.
    They hardly get mentioned outside of the newpaper "responses" column.

    One of the most dedicated are the Volunteer Fire Departments.
    VFD's are doing the majority of the relief work in this disaster. Even LEMA is heavily staffed with VFD personnel.

    In Marion, we have a dedicated group who is still giving every spare minute. Some are here full time, some are reporting at lunch time and after work.
    We have been "In Service" 24 hrs a day since Saturday evening at 6pm.
    We answered "Life Threat" calls during the worst part until it got too dangerous. We even had to cut our #2 pumper out of a tree that fell while responding to a call to a lady who was in her home trapped under a tree.
    We have been delivering ice and water to seasoned citizens and those who can't drive across town to get it, cutting trees, assessing damages, and even providing traffic control at gas stations. And even providing the needy with food and drink from our own pockets.
    All for "free". (we're "just volunteers" after all)

    Almost every home has some damage, and many have moderate to Major damage. Several are total losses.
    Even our firehouse has roof damage.
    We need gas for vehicles and saws, and other equipment that has to be serviced, repaired, and replaced after use.

    Why am I telling you this?
    I ask that you consider this one thing..... and spread the word.
    Donations would do more if given to LOCAL departments.

    If you wish to help.....
    Urge people to send Donations to a LOCAL Volunteer Fire Departments.
    After all, they know best where it's needed and how it would help most.

    And not just my department or here in Lauderdale County. (even though we desperately need it)
    People should consider looking up departments in the phone book, on the web, or just drive down the road to their neighborhood department and choose one, and give locally.
    It would be an investment in their own community and safety.
    Most all are non-profits and Donations are tax deductible.

    Please consider reporting on this or passing it along.

    Thank You,
    http://home.comcast.net/~marionfire...firerescue.html

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    As I have been flipping the channels on my TV watching news coverage from a variety of broadcasters in a number of areas, I have found a common theme among the victims' comments... "Where is the RED CROSS?"

    Of course, we all know where the Red Cross is: they are out doing what they they do best -- holding fundraisers and news conferences touting how wonderful they are.

    I would give money to Kwame Kilpatrick's re-election fund before I gave a dime to the Red Cross.
    Resident Chaplain of the IACOJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by IACOJRev
    As I have been flipping the channels on my TV watching news coverage from a variety of broadcasters in a number of areas, I have found a common theme among the victims' comments... "Where is the RED CROSS?"

    Of course, we all know where the Red Cross is: they are out doing what they they do best -- holding fundraisers and news conferences touting how wonderful they are.

    I would give money to Kwame Kilpatrick's re-election fund before I gave a dime to the Red Cross.
    Ya know...I read the Glendale Chief's posting and thought he was entitled to his opinion, but Rev, this is a crock.

    The answer to 'Where is the Red Cross' is simple: they're everywhere. I will say that I am a disaster service volunteer for my local ARC chapter, so I'm biased, but hear me out, too.

    The Red Cross has 12 different DO's open (disaster operations), in places ranging from Florida to the Astrodome. The bulk of the 'Where is the Red Cross' stuff is coming from New Orleans, and the reason they weren't there was because it wasn't safe for unarmed personnel to be there. Hell, its not really even safe for armed personnel to be there. The ARC is a humanitarian organization that can't be asked to put its people in harms way. Its different for the Israeli Red Crescent, whose people do carry side arms, but ARC volunteers do not. As the situation improves there, the ARC will re-establish its operation there. As a member of the fire service, I don't blame you if you have ill will from 9/11/01....The ARC very much fowled up that operation. No argument there. But you can't ask unarmed (mostly) civilian volunteers in this type of work to operate in that kind of area. And about the news conferences, etc, most of the on-site interviews happen when some jobber news crew walks up and sticks a mic in a volunteer's face when they would rather be helping someone.

    I have never met my ARC chapter president, or any of the higher ups described here. But the ARC is overwhelmingly comprised of volunteers who are doing their damndest right now....Please, both of you, don't penalize the good will of this organization based on your perception (real or imagined) of this group.
    Last edited by DualReverse; 09-04-2005 at 12:19 AM.
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    The Red Cross is a valuable organization in disaster situations. Whenever there is a major fire or flood our local chapter is right there and does a great job. In June we had a fire which gutted the third floor of the building that houses the local RC chapter and they would have been temporarily out of businees had we not given them the use of our sub station for three weeks until their offices could be rehabed. ( It felt good to able to help them for once. )
    But I think that some people are confusing the entire meaning of Harve's post.
    If you want to donate to the relief efforts that are feeding and housing the stroms victims, then by all means give to an organization like the Red Cross or Salvation Army. But if you are looking to send aid to our brother firefighters who have suffered loss from this hurricane, then you need to give to the NVFC or some other organization which is targeted directly to fellow firefighters.
    Last edited by Driver76; 09-04-2005 at 12:37 AM.

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    PLEASE GIVE TO THE RED CROSS!
    "PHILIPPEANS 4:13"

  23. #23
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    before Doing Anything Please Read The "adopt A Firehouse" Thread By The Wt. Thank You
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods
    before Doing Anything Please Read The "adopt A Firehouse" Thread By The Wt. Thank You
    Well said, and already printed out to give to the chief
    The comments made by me are my opinions only, not of the Fire and EMS services I am affiliated with.

    I have lost my mind..has anyone seen it? it's not worth much..but it's mine

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    While I am no fan of the Red Cross (I'd rather give to the Salvation Army), I find the jabs at the Red Cross about "Where are they" a bit unfair.

    Check this web site:

    http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html

    to paraphrase the above;

    They arent in New Orleans because New Orleans won't let them in.

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