1. #1
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    Default Why is the media so concerned about the speed of the federal response....

    when the local response was NON EXISTANT.

    I'm sorry, I may be wrong here, but I could have sworn it was the MAYOR and GOVERNOR's job to get people out of the city, make sure it was save, provide supplies to the shelters, and establishing and excuting a plan to evacuate the city and rescue survivors.

    did they do ANY of that? and now they're ****ed because when they dropped the ball the President couldn't use his super Flash speed to dive in and grab the ball before it hit the ground?
    When I get to hell
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    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
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    oh wait. I think I solved my own question...

    President = white male republican

    Mayor = black democrat

    Governor = woman democrat


    well. it has to be the white man's fault. Everything is the white man's fault.
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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    Thumbs down

    Thats nice, put a political spin on a disaster.

    Since I guess you havent figured it out, this was beyond the scope of either the city or the state to handle. Most of the rest of us saw that, why didnt the Feds?
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    You know what is more dispicable? You making this into a race/ethnicity issue. Please, spare me.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire
    You know what is more dispicable? You making this into a race/ethnicity issue. Please, spare me.
    lol

    Yeah, because I'm the first person ever to bring up the posibility that the media has a left wing bias. I sure am an inovator.
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre08
    lol

    Yeah, because I'm the first person ever to bring up the posibility that the media has a left wing bias. I sure am an inovator.
    No, I would agree with that more often than not. But that isn't what you're talking about. You're putting the spin on it that the slowness has something to do with black/white/republican/democrat.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    Thats nice, put a political spin on a disaster.

    Since I guess you havent figured it out, this was beyond the scope of either the city or the state to handle. Most of the rest of us saw that, why didnt the Feds?
    Well everywhere I turn on T.V. is only talking about the politics of it, so why shouldn't I?

    And I see, because it as beyond the scope of the local and state government to handle on their own, we should just let them off scott free and not ask for any kind of accountability from them, while at the same time expecting the head of the president?

    The local and state government didn't do ANYTHING. If they really thought they couldn't handle it at all they should have gone to the President before the hurricane hit and asked him to step in and declare martial law immediatly. But they didn't. They sat on their hands before, during, and immediatly after the hurricane while crying that the federal government wasn't doing THEIR jobs well enough.

    Re-frackin-diculous
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire
    No, I would agree with that more often than not. But that isn't what you're talking about. You're putting the spin on it that the slowness has something to do with black/white/republican/democrat.
    no I'm not. I'm not really talking about the actual response here. That's pointless to argue.

    I'm talking about the medias coverage and critisism of the response, which is TOTALLY motivated by race and politics.
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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    I thought you were stating that your opinion in the matter. Sorry.

    Either way, I think a lot of people in the local, state, and federal circles all f'ed this up pretty bad. We can't blame one agency. They were all slow. It started with not running a complete evacuation. It continued with the state not getting it's act together fast enough. And then the general slowness of the federal end was compounded by the slowness of the state end which was compounded by poor decisions made locally.

    And all of this would be a moot point if they spent money on the levees instead of a giant drunk-fest every year.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I think the problem no one wants to take the blame and honestly with a catastrophe of this magnitude there is no true way to prepare so all people are just finger pointing and pushing the blames to everyone else. Just my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire
    I thought you were stating that your opinion in the matter. Sorry.

    Either way, I think a lot of people in the local, state, and federal circles all f'ed this up pretty bad. We can't blame one agency. They were all slow. It started with not running a complete evacuation. It continued with the state not getting it's act together fast enough. And then the general slowness of the federal end was compounded by the slowness of the state end which was compounded by poor decisions made locally.

    And all of this would be a moot point if they spent money on the levees instead of a giant drunk-fest every year.
    exactly.

    First, the local government failed when they didn't stock the shelters with adiquate food, water, and medical supplies and professional to make it comfortable and safe for people taking refuge there. Almost of the people that died either died from dehydration or medical problems. There is NO reason that the mayor shouldn't have been prepared for this.

    Next, the state government failed when they didn't roll national guard well equiped national guard troops and state police into the city immediatly after the storm to save as many people as possible, they had almost 36 hours before the city flooded that they could have done ALOT of good and saved alot of lives.

    Finally, as soon as it was apparent that the city as going to flood this badly the federal government should have declared martial law, sent in active duty troops and everybody they could find and taken over.



    all of that is apparent, and ALL of them should be accountable for their failures and the reasons for those failures.

    Now, please I wish somebody would tell me WHY the first 2 are bitching about the third, and why the media doesn't seem to care AT ALL about the first 2?
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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    Default Why? You ask?

    Because it is an election coming up! Anyway, as I see it there is something wrong with the WHOLE picture. They cried cause they had no way to get all the people out of the city. But there was a HUGH lot full of school buses that could have been used. AND that was before the levee broke and put them underwater! Now underwater they are totally useless. I know this is something that is the WORST possible scenario but the locals MUST ask for assistance before the Feds can step in. When did the Governor ask for it? I understand there was a delay there too in asking for the assistance from the Feds. But to make matters worse they are turning away help as it approaches. There are teams being sent home at the perimiter that has been requested by locals in the Non-New Orleans area that cannot get to the people that they were requested by because the roadblocks. I don't get the logic in that but I know we are only hearing the media slanted version and the truth will come out one day. Keep all those helping out and effected by the storm in your thoughts and prayers. Maybe God can step in and help get this mess straightened out. Lord knows the government isn't getting it done.

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    Truth be told this is showing the failures in our respose system - the gear sitting unused because "no one asked for it," The food and h2o drops that are only done sporatically, the superdome fiasco, the control of the looters, (note I said looters, not those gathering essential supplies, no matter what their color may be.) If you make this a race issue you are missing the bigger picture. All this from a country that can invade another in 3 days but cant get food and water to those in our own country. It makes me sick to look at it.

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    New Orleans fell into a trap that many communities -- large and small -- are stuck in this very day. While we all point fingers at New Orleans for their lack of planning for this event... Many of our own communities have glaring weaknesses that could be catastrophic.

    Everyone knew that New Orleans was below sea level. Everyone knew that a breach of a levee or sea wall would cause great problems. But when was the last time that the city flooded? How often has New Orleans survived a tropical storm or hurricane without flooding? The facts are... The problems we see in New Orleans were not caused by the hurricane directly, they were caused by the resulting floods. And through complacency, they didn't think they'd ever have to face this problem. As it turns out, that was a very disasterous mistake.

    Finally, show me a city of 500,000 that's ever had to evacuate itself in short order. Tell me how many times you've ever been a part of such an operation. That's right. This was a very unique situation and many of the folks saying that they know how things should have been handled really don't have a clue.

    Many towns use mutual aid to fight fires. Why? Because fighting fire isn't something they can handle on their own. New Orleans needed a more rapid response from higher levels of government. Why? Because the evacuation was thousands of times more than they could handle.

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    I hear what you're saying Coz, but it doesn't take too much planning or hell, even common sense, to realize that if you're going to tell people to all congregate in a certain place to wait out a disaster you stock it with supplies and medical help.

    I went through several hurricanes when I lived in florida and the shelters, even though they were only meant to house people for a matter of hours, ALWAYS had huge stockpiles of supplies, and multiple EMTs onsite, as I'm sure the shelters set up in all the other states did. Why didn't Louisana? Why didn't New Orleans?
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre08
    Well everywhere I turn on T.V. is only talking about the politics of it, so why shouldn't I?

    And I see, because it as beyond the scope of the local and state government to handle on their own, we should just let them off scott free and not ask for any kind of accountability from them, while at the same time expecting the head of the president?

    The local and state government didn't do ANYTHING. If they really thought they couldn't handle it at all they should have gone to the President before the hurricane hit and asked him to step in and declare martial law immediatly. But they didn't. They sat on their hands before, during, and immediatly after the hurricane while crying that the federal government wasn't doing THEIR jobs well enough.

    Re-frackin-diculous

    Spectre08, well spoken, you are going into a good profession. Just think you may be able to become a REAL firefighter someday. Whats the matter can't pass a real test?
    workharder

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    Angry Enough is enough

    Hey kid....why don't you go and tell the BROTHERS in the New Orleans FD that their response was "non-existant" or that they "didn't do anything"

    They have stayed on the job all week when many if not most of them have lost their homes. Take a look at the pictures of them wading through flood waters or having to sleep in their rig because their firehouse was flooded out.

    I'm with cozmosis...enough with this Monday morning quarterbacking ****
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    While I strongly believe the local/state response was sorely lacking, that has nothing to do with the brothers trying to work in those conditions. It's the governmental buearucratic jugheads that will have to explain things after this is all over, on all levels. And the fire service on a national level needs to hold their feet to the fire (or tie them to the stake, as the case may be) and answer some hard questions with some hard factual answers. If this is an example of what we can expect in the future, we're all in trouble...and kind of deserve it if we let them get away with it.

    Part of the thing that ****es me off is the fact that there seems to be no organized effort to relieve the front line firefighters. All the calls for FEMA help have been primarily to hand out fliers, and no resources to relieve those skilled crews that are embattled in Louisiana and Mississippi as a region. Why? Does anyone know of any relief forces being funneled to these guys?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire609medic
    Truth be told this is showing the failures in our respose system - the gear sitting unused because "no one asked for it," The food and h2o drops that are only done sporatically, the superdome fiasco, the control of the looters, (note I said looters, not those gathering essential supplies, no matter what their color may be.) If you make this a race issue you are missing the bigger picture. All this from a country that can invade another in 3 days but cant get food and water to those in our own country. It makes me sick to look at it.
    Yup, that's the way it happens. The Pres. decides he wants to invade a country 5000 miles away and three days later we drop 55,000 troops in.

    You're dreaming.

    That operation took months if not years of planning. The same months and years that the city of NO government had to study other major disaster responses. work out a plan that would work for them and then practice it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFD10
    Hey kid....why don't you go and tell the BROTHERS in the New Orleans FD that their response was "non-existant" or that they "didn't do anything"

    They have stayed on the job all week when many if not most of them have lost their homes. Take a look at the pictures of them wading through flood waters or having to sleep in their rig because their firehouse was flooded out.

    I'm with cozmosis...enough with this Monday morning quarterbacking ****
    I don't think anyone here is condeming the NO FD? What are you talking about??
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I also think our first priority should be rescue and evac. BUT I was watching Tuesday for a full response of Military troops that didnt make it, I was confused as to why there werent 10,000 military troops there by Tuesday night or Weds at the latest.
    Look at how many military bases are within 500 miles or so of the gulf coast. When I was in the Army from 1986 to 1989, we kept a duffel bag packed because we were told we would be called upon to deploy within 24 hours .
    We did that 4 different times and it went pretty well. There were always a few things that didnt go right but within 24 hours we had most of our elements sitting at a different location usually at least 1000 miles away and we were ready for business.
    I am wondering how we lost that quick deployment capability. Even with many of our troops overseas , we should be capable of swarming any problem that comes up !!
    Monday morning quarterback, maybe but it just upset me that we, as a nation are that unprepared. No more cold war, is that part of the problem or are we looking at the rest of the world more than we are at our own homeland??
    There Used to be response plans in place for most any possible situation, why isnt there anymore.
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    I know that we can send out troops anywhere in the world on within a short period of time for those soldiers. But I imagine it takes at least another day before that to plan out something like this.

    I was impressed that the troops were in the city within a week. And the REALLY important people who needed to be there, the rescue choppers, were all in there within hours after the city was flooded.
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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    And all of this would be a moot point if they spent money on the levees instead of a giant drunk-fest every year.
    Don't build a city below sea level counting on walls to keep you dry. Big question....will they make that same mistake again? My bets are yes.


    Funny how people cry and scream for Federal Relief, but they aren't willing to have Federal Government control.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    .... and the cycle repeats itself again and again. The government will be asked to again bail out citizens who "intentionally" placed themselves, their lives and their homes into a "known" danger zone. It would be cheaper to bulldoze it into a pile and use it for the fill in that hole, and then build on top of it at 100 feet above sea level. Those that choose to ignore the past, are destined to repeat the same mistakes again!
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