1. #1
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    Angry What's life like there in Perfect?

    I must ask many of you if there is a job for me where you live -- in the City of Perfect. I can't imagine how wonderful it must be to work in a fire department that always has enough stations, apparatus and personnel. Is the trash always picked up there on time, too? How about the weather? My guess is sunny and 72 every day of the week.

    Something terrible has happened along the Gulf Coast. Certainly, a large number of people are dead or are dying. Mistakes have been made on the local, state and federal level. But I'm tired of hearing you fools who think you have all the answers without really having a clue whatsoever.

    Look around your own towns and cities. Now throw in a hurricane, a tornado, an earthquake or a terrorist attack. Does everyone live? Does everything run smoothly? Do you have the resources to handle the problem on your own? Do you know who to call if you can't handle it? If you're being honest, you'll admit that your own community has severe weaknesses. The fact is, most communities do in one way or the other. So, knowing that our own cities aren't perfect... And that they are vulnerable to some sort of disaster in their own way... Why do people think it's acceptable to Monday morning quarterback what is happening on the coast -- especially as the rescue mission is still ongoing?

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    Thumbs up

    well put...I agree

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    Nobody's "Monday moning quarterbacking" the way the local departments on the coast are handling it. They're doing the best they can with what they have left. No what everyone is criticizing is the federal response to the situation, or lack thereof. Especially the breakdown in communication and the way the Federal mutual aid system is obviously not working correctly.
    IAFF - Fire/EMS

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    There are certainly a few out there who are letting their true personalities show while QB'ing this whole thing, but I think what you are seeing from most is simply misdirected frustration at the futility of the entire situation. Most folks really do want to help, but it is frustrating to watch from the sidelines, with little to no opportunity to contribute meaningfully.

    The incomplete information coming from NO and the speculative nature of the media coverage only makes it worse. Things seem to finally be on the upswing, and hopefully that alleviates some of the frustration.

    I personally had to stop watching the news coverage because it is increasingly difficult to watch, and there is nothing I can do to change the situation. In my frustration, I too found myself looking for a place to point the finger, but that accomplishes absolutely nothing.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    I went through 3 hurricanes last year. The first one catch us a little off guard, but we were loaded for bear for the next ones. It surprised me that there was not as much staging of equipment and manpower. I think everyone is afraid to stage resources, because they might be wrong and don't need them. I would think that after last year in Floirida and the past history of major hurricanes hitting large metropolitan areas (Hugo, Andrew) the power to be would have been a little more prepared. I know that I think that Florida was a lot more prepared than LA or MS seems to have been.
    I can't say enough about the personnel that have responded, they have done an incredible job. I hope that I will be able to lend a hand in the very near future.

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    While I do agree with your post for the most part, I also must say it is not healthy to pretend that everything is just peachy either. Sometimes Monday morning quarterbacking is what improves processes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cozmosis
    I must ask many of you if there is a job for me where you live -- in the City of Perfect. I can't imagine how wonderful it must be to work in a fire department that always has enough stations, apparatus and personnel. Is the trash always picked up there on time, too? How about the weather? My guess is sunny and 72 every day of the week.

    Something terrible has happened along the Gulf Coast. Certainly, a large number of people are dead or are dying. Mistakes have been made on the local, state and federal level. But I'm tired of hearing you fools who think you have all the answers without really having a clue whatsoever.

    Look around your own towns and cities. Now throw in a hurricane, a tornado, an earthquake or a terrorist attack. Does everyone live? Does everything run smoothly? Do you have the resources to handle the problem on your own? Do you know who to call if you can't handle it? If you're being honest, you'll admit that your own community has severe weaknesses. The fact is, most communities do in one way or the other. So, knowing that our own cities aren't perfect... And that they are vulnerable to some sort of disaster in their own way... Why do people think it's acceptable to Monday morning quarterback what is happening on the coast -- especially as the rescue mission is still ongoing?

    i just think you need to edit your post to Some Fools instead of You fools because not everyone lives in la la land

    and yes i just think some is just misguided frustration of having to sit back and watch and do nothing.
    Last edited by BFDNJFF; 09-05-2005 at 02:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cozmosis
    I must ask many of you if there is a job for me where you live -- in the City of Perfect. I can't imagine how wonderful it must be to work in a fire department that always has enough stations, apparatus and personnel. Is the trash always picked up there on time, too? How about the weather? My guess is sunny and 72 every day of the week.

    Something terrible has happened along the Gulf Coast. Certainly, a large number of people are dead or are dying. Mistakes have been made on the local, state and federal level. But I'm tired of hearing you fools who think you have all the answers without really having a clue whatsoever.

    Look around your own towns and cities. Now throw in a hurricane, a tornado, an earthquake or a terrorist attack. Does everyone live? Does everything run smoothly? Do you have the resources to handle the problem on your own? Do you know who to call if you can't handle it? If you're being honest, you'll admit that your own community has severe weaknesses. The fact is, most communities do in one way or the other. So, knowing that our own cities aren't perfect... And that they are vulnerable to some sort of disaster in their own way... Why do people think it's acceptable to Monday morning quarterback what is happening on the coast -- especially as the rescue mission is still ongoing?
    I don't live in that city. And I agree that something terrible happened there on a scale that none of us can concieve right now. But to tell me that I am "Monday morning" quarterbacking is ridiculous.

    What I have complained about is a city government that, before the hurricane, DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP THEIR CITIZENS! What I am complaining about is the segment of the population who is now screaming about what the federal government is going to do to help them. What I have complained about is the segment of the population, apparently sent from Satan himself, who has desecrated that city and placed a black mark on the US WITH COMPLETE AND UTTER LAWLESSNESS AND ANARCHY. What I will continue to complain about is the news media putting people on their airwaves to tell me that somehow this whole thing is a racial incident and that it is whitey's fault that all these people died. NO PEOPLE-IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT FOR NOT GETTING THE HELL OUT OF THERE AND IT IS YOUR CITY AND STATE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT FOR NOT SEEING TO IT THAT YOU GOT OUT OF THERE.

    That is not Monday morning QB'ing. That is stating the obvious.

  9. #9
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    Default Agreed....................

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    I don't live in that city. And I agree that something terrible happened there on a scale that none of us can concieve right now. But to tell me that I am "Monday morning" quarterbacking is ridiculous.

    What I have complained about is a city government that, before the hurricane, DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP THEIR CITIZENS! What I am complaining about is the segment of the population who is now screaming about what the federal government is going to do to help them. What I have complained about is the segment of the population, apparently sent from Satan himself, who has desecrated that city and placed a black mark on the US WITH COMPLETE AND UTTER LAWLESSNESS AND ANARCHY. What I will continue to complain about is the news media putting people on their airwaves to tell me that somehow this whole thing is a racial incident and that it is whitey's fault that all these people died. NO PEOPLE-IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT FOR NOT GETTING THE HELL OUT OF THERE AND IT IS YOUR CITY AND STATE GOVERNMENT'S FAULT FOR NOT SEEING TO IT THAT YOU GOT OUT OF THERE.

    That is not Monday morning QB'ing. That is stating the obvious.
    I agree with George (Take shelter, Blizzard coming) on his view, and (Shock) I have a couple of points of my own as well. There were people in New Orleans who had no Transportation out of there, yet there are acres and acres of parking lots full of school busses, NOW UNDER WATER, That could have been used to move those with no other means to escape. Disaster Planning and Disaster Response are two quite different things. In this case, planning seemed to be poor at best, and response was/is not much better AT THIS POINT.

    Coz, I share your frustration as well, and, like you, I don't think any City has "The Perfect Plan". I can say that my area will fare a lot better than some others in a similar situation, for a number of reasons, the most prominent being that Emergency Planning is done by Emergency Responders, not bureaucrats. Here, if your voice is to be heard in Emergency Planning and Management, it has to have Fire/Rescue or Law Enforcement experience behind it. And that's the way it should be. Having said that, understand that EVERYONE who could be involved in a Major Emergency is part of the planning process. For instance, the Highway Department must be involved because of the critical nature of keeping the existing road network fluid to evacuate huge numbers of people while simultaneously bringing in help from outside the area. The highway agency's people who are involved in planning are, for the most part, folks with long term experience as active Firefighters in their local VFD. Is that a cure all? No. Does it help? Absolutely. We might not be at the top of the mountain yet, but we're damn sure not at the bottom.
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    I dont think I am Monday morning quarterbacking --- a lot of us realize how short a memory the general public has and we would like to get the point across of how our fears of putting bureacrats in charge of emergencies have come true. Mr Brown is in full spin mode while work still needs done If we dont contact our representatives while the iron is still hot ---- they will find something else to distract them and it will be business as usual.

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    Default i finally did something

    im really not blowing my own horn, but today i spent 6 hours at our biggest armory in hartford and helped unload water food diapers blankets etc etc etc
    just moving and helping doing SOMETHING instead of being glued to cnn and msnbc made me feel really good and i felt less guilty.
    yes im a volunteer and i felt guilty i couldnt drop everything and go to the gulf. todays work -with 400 or so of my fellow citizens- just helped

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    Wink

    good for u bull

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    There may be a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking going on, but isn't that what we do when we have an after action review or "tailboard discussion"?

    I, for one, am making plenty of mental notes because I live on the New Madrid fault. For those of you unfamiliar with the New Madrid, Google for a history of Reelfoot Lake - particularly from sites with a geological interest in the subject. The same problems NO is facing could be my problem tomorrow, next month, or ten years from now. If we don't heed the lessons learned in NO and develop some good alternatives, history will repeat itself.
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    Default not perfect

    Nope, I do'nt live in perfect. In fact I'm truly afraid that if that size disaster happened here we would be running around like a bunch of chickens with the head chopped off. At least the leadership would. I'm not perfect either but at least during the last flood here I had already advanced my people back to work ahead of the point where they could not get here and was up and running with a plan. The problem was that nobody else was ready for us and could not get there act together and did not want to communicate. I fell back to my military training and took command for myself and dispatched my people as needed. Either lead, follow or get out of the way. 48 hours later we had everything up and running with only one hard broke piece of equipment while the rest of the chickens were still trying to figure out where they were. Want to live here and work for me? It ain't perfect but its a free country.

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    I have been reading most of the post today on firehouse. Iíll be honest I really donít Give an F$&K who is playing Monday morning quarterback. We all have been running crazy this past week with no relief in sight. The brothers from New Orleans Jefferson Parish, St George, Baton Rouge, Kenner, St. Barnard, and St Tammany have been beat down pretty hard. But guess what, they are still standing. Every time one of the guys reads a post about how bad we did it sends them deeper into depression. Please the media is doing enough bashing for all of us. Here is a great ideaÖ.instead of worrying about who did what, why cant everyone start a post about how GOOD the guys did under conditions NO FIREFIGHTER should ever be exposed to. Iím sorry if I offend anyone and there is probably other post out there. Letís just take all the energy we are wasting on playing quarterback and put it where it needs to go, showing our brothers support.


    Jack Jones
    Captain
    St George Fire
    Baton Rouge, La.

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    Unhappy Jack??.....................

    First, I hope nothing that I've said over the past 10 days was construed as a slap at those on the line. If so, I apoligize. My concern lies solely with those who could have managed better and didn't. That means people from the Federal level, people from the State level, and the top leadership at the Local level. (Yeah, I know, Local and Leadership combine to create an oxymoron.) I have yet to see where the folks who were out in the field, wet, tired, and dirty, did anything less than heroic actions. The ones who wear the coats and ties everyday were the ones who let this happen, and they should be held accountable. NO ONE in Fire and EMS deserves anything less than a medal of honor for what they're doing, no one in Management deserves less than a kick in the a** for what they haven't done.
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    Exclamation Captain Jones, need a brothers to help? just ask

    Dear Captain Jones,

    I was on a list to deploy, we were told to disregard that we were not needed, FEMA Teams had everything in control. I guess they forgot about the brothers needing help in the stations hit by Katrina. I am a Volunteer Firefighter, 24 years with a heavy rescue company, firefighting trained, Heavy and Tactical Rescue Trained. Can your department use me for a week or 2 to give one of your departments brothers a break? All yah have to do is tell me where to fly into or drive to, will bring my own gear, food and water if needed. This offer is meant as a serious offer, brother to brother, I care not if you are Paid or Volunteer, if you can use the help then here it is. Some of us remember 9-11 and the closeness of the brotherhood, all walls seperating career from volunteer firefighters were dropped while working the pit in N.Y., for me it is still dropped.
    I need a days notice to get logistics and extra PPE to be self-supporting if needed.

    Brother by extended Family,
    J. M.

    P.S. Message Flamers need not reply, thanks.

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    From what I have read thus far, I have not found any post bashing the local responders. The local responders have done what they signed up to do...save lives and protect property to the best of their ability. The local responders have worked an incident that for years will have a lasting impact. My hat is off too each and everyone of them.

    However, I think what everyone is tee'd off about is the way the city and state government has dumped on the local responders and the community. They failed at the very basic level of emergency response-Plan/Prepare/Fund/Equip and Act. Is this the fault of the local departments? Absolutely not. They responded. Did the mayor or the Governor?

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    What I ask is this.

    Are you satisfied with the response level to this disaster? Would you feel comfortable with what has happened so far?

    There is a ton of blame to go around. Locals effed up. State effed up. Feds effed up. I thought we would have learned more from 9/11 and the tsunami. This is a very telling event. We, as a nation, better learn some serious lessons from this one.
    "We had trouble putting out the fire because the house and everything in it was burning at the time"---The Chief while speaking to the press--no lie

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    Default my last posting, FEMA is a military Agency now.

    FEMA needs someone to hand their asses to them in a public place asking them why they decided that Phase I was only Career Teams. Do I smell profit for people? What did they send first, military and expensive helicopters, where were all the rescue boats they had on alert? Wait, FEMA Task Forces only have a few swift water teams, that's right, how foolish of me to forget that fact.
    We as a family better have learned a lesson. Screw the Political red tape and take care of the brothers in the needed areas. What is FEMA gonna do, turn away a 100,000 USAR trained firefighters "Career and Volunteer" that are there to get the job done? Tell us all that "We cannot get to many trapped people because of high water, people are still trapped and we cannot get to them without helicopters" we do not need or want your help, you were not called for. Time for the whole Fire and Rescue Family to take a stand, FEMA take a look back, your Task Forces are not what you make them out to be, face it.

    Frustrated and p_ss_d off yes, They made the fire service as a whole look like crap. People in my community asked "why did you guys not go with your boat? It goes oout on the river for rescues? Why are there not any rescuers in boats down there?" What do you tell a person that looks to you as a local rescuer/firefighter in anytown U.S.A.? "Well see Mr. Jones, the Government has their own Specially trained Teams that handle things like that and we are not requested to help, they do it themselves."

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    Dude, there were rescue boats there. They were being held back because @$$e$ were shooting at them.

    If you notice, the vols are getting reimbursed by FEMA also, so "paid or vol" really doesn't play into this one at all.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack61sgfd
    Every time one of the guys reads a post about how bad we did it sends them deeper into depression. Here is a great ideaÖ.instead of worrying about who did what, why cant everyone start a post about how GOOD the guys did under conditions NO FIREFIGHTER should ever be exposed to. Letís just take all the energy we are wasting on playing quarterback and put it where it needs to go, showing our brothers support.

    Jack Jones
    Captain
    St George Fire
    Baton Rouge, La.
    I don't know of anyone who is bashing the first responders (save the NOPD members who bailed on their brothers and those that participated in the looting). I think this incident proves - yet again - that first responders will rise to the occasion and do the impossible with zero resources. Quite frankly the fault there lies with local politicians and the general public for allowing it to happen (the lack of resources, that is). The local EMA people probably deserve quite a bit of credit for the success thus far - again with the exception of those who were complicit in the political debacle that transpired in NO and perhaps elsewhere.

    We need a fire service leader at the head of FEMA. I feel sorry for the next Director, though. He's gonna have a tough row to hoe.
    ullrichk
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