1. #1
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    Default Responding while intoxicated

    Looking for guidance on theoretical issue as part of improving our policies:

    Dept has a 'zero tolerance' drug and alcohol policy regarding operating while intoxicated. Its never been tested.

    If an intoxicated Chief responds from a parade and orders the returning engine full of intoxicated crew with no gear to take the call in, the policy has obviously been violated.

    who gets punished and how?

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    I would hope the policy is clear enough that it also spells out punishment. The hypothetical Chief made a disasterous call, and why are there intoxicated firefighters on the returning apparatus? Who's driving? "Zero Tolerance" should mean just that. Even off duty, the policy would cover members participating with department property. They should all be allowed to go to functions and consume whatever they like, but not be allowed to get in or on apparatus. Perhaps the department has a utility van or similar vehicle that a designated driver can operate and safely get the guys home after the parade or jamboree. Even rent a van for the event.

    The Chief made a bad call. The policy is what it is. He should get the brunt of the disipline, but someone on the engine should have made a decision that they had no gear nor any business responding. Discipline the engine officer too! Tailboard guys may not have had any say in the decision.

    Punishment probably will be graduated. 1st offense, 2nd offense, etc., but a zero tolerance policy hints that if it occurs, you are gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstern350
    Looking for guidance on theoretical issue as part of improving our policies:

    Dept has a 'zero tolerance' drug and alcohol policy regarding operating while intoxicated. Its never been tested.

    If an intoxicated Chief responds from a parade and orders the returning engine full of intoxicated crew with no gear to take the call in, the policy has obviously been violated.

    who gets punished and how?
    EVERYONE who responded while intoxicated
    EVERYONE who allowed it to happen

    Termination
    Buckle Up, Slow Down, Arrive Alive
    "Everybody Goes Home"

    IACOJ 2003

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    what he said.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Cool one more before we go

    Let's hope this policy does not get tested for real. Let's hope there are enough sober people to handle the call with or without the Chief.

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    The department needs to come down hard on all involved. The punishment should be the same for all involved except the Chief - his should be more severe because he is responsible for those personnel.

    A hard but fair punishment will send a strong message to the other department members. Also as said above the SOP/policy needs to address punishment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534
    A hard but fair punishment will send a strong message to the other department members.
    Words of truth.

    Someone even thinks that you’ve been drinking, you take a PBT.

    PBT detects ANYTHING: Minimum 6 months suspension, formal review for possible termination

    Second Offense: Minimum 1 year suspension, formal review for likely termination

    Third Offense: Goodbye

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    IMHO- Everyone walks except the chief. All the other guys obeyed orders and responded. If the chief is crazy enough to order drunkin firefighters to a scene, he should be out! If this is a Volley dept, you probably cant afford to loose eveyone. The zero tolerance applies to the chief and this should put an end to anyone else trying a stunt like that. Everyone sees the chief loose his job and they know they are lucky to still have theirs!

    You cannot make the mistake of accusing people of being drunk unless you have absolute proof. Otherwise you open yourself to a major lawsuit. My advice would to be to think of the good of the company first, it must survive. Nailing the chief should be enough in my opinion.

    God bless and pull the ceiling as you go.

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    If it can be provent that the Chief was under the influence, then he needs to go. Officer and FF's that can be proven to have been under the influence, should recieve suspensions. Even though the FF's may not have had a say in the response, they had a choice in whether or not they got on the vehicle. There is no room for alcohol and our business to be mixed. I would rather be short personnel and have to call for mutual aid then to have a bunch of drunk FF's to baby sit. Liability is just to GREAT!

    Hopefully we are just brainstorming here in an effort to make a stronger policy and not fix a broken one.

    Good luck, and stay safe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnfireguy
    EVERYONE who responded while intoxicated
    EVERYONE who allowed it to happen

    Termination

    Ditto!

    Zero tolerance means just that.





    Kevin
    Fire Lieutenant/E.M.T.
    IAFF Local 2339
    K of C 4th Degree
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    Member I.A.C.O.J.
    http://www.tfdfire.com/
    "Fir na tine"

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