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    Lightbulb Katrina: Passing the buck..

    I know I will step on some ones toes with this, but I felt the need to point out one critical mistake in this tragic event.... This could have been avoided. No not Katrina herself, but the city of New Orleans as well as the state had been advised for years now that their levy system was failing and would never be able to effectively protect the city from a hurricane of Katrina's magnitude. Even as society sits in judgement, second guessing the federal governments actions, it was just before Katrina reached land that the mayor of New Orleans made the announcement that the city was bunkered down and ready to see it through. Yet when the you know what hit the fan and things failed, he was one of the first to stand up and point fingers. New Orleans was certain they would dodge another bullet, just as they had year after year, but when hit with deadly aim they cried foul.
    Now with all that said, calm down for those of you who think that Sassy is with out a heart. I am not trying to continue the trend of laying blame.... I'm just prompting a reminder to all that this could have been a lot less catastrophic had those who managed the city before Katrina felt it more important to prepare and prevent rather than wait and fix.
    It has been overwhelmingly hard for me to watch what I have and not feel a tug at my heart, or for tears to swell when I think of what horrid conditions most of those people suffered through, but rather than compound the problem with blame, I hope somewhere, some one, will remember what could have been done, and this will be a lesson to grow from for our country as a whole rather than a blemish in time that we all squirm over in a decade when reading the history books of our children.
    The best indicator of what kind of person you are is how you treat those who are of no benefit to you.

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    and the sad thing is, they will rebuild the city in exactly the same way and wait for it to happen again.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    and the sad thing is, they will rebuild the city in exactly the same way and wait for it to happen again.
    And that, I think, is going to be the "Moral" of the story.... destined to be repeated.
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    My sister owns three houses in NOLA.One was shown on TV as being burned,another she's seen flooded out and hasn't seen the third but the area it's in is unflooded and appearently unlooted.
    The Governor of Louisiana and the Mayor of New Orleans had time to get people into the Superdome,and ask for federal assistance but they didn't have time to stockpile water and food for the people to eat until the FEMA response could get underway.
    Preplanning is a mantra for us in the fire service.Be prepared is the Boy Scout Motto,yet people do not do so and it bites them in the axe.
    Taking a gator freighter(Navy amphibious assault ship)and getting it ready to take supplies for hungry and thirsty people instead of carrying Marines into combat takes a while to do.
    They should have known that and prepared instead of waiting for the government to do something.
    THEY ARE THE GOVERNMENT!

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    You got that right.Last week,I was reading abook called"Rising Tide"about the Flood of 1927.In it,the author told about the dynamiting of levees in St Bernard and Plaqueminne Parishes to relieve the pressure on the NOLA levees.
    There wasn't"much"displacement of people because at the time,there was a lower poulation of the area.
    When the levees broke last week,there were more people put out because of development in the area.

    Quote Originally Posted by MalahatTwo7
    And that, I think, is going to be the "Moral" of the story.... destined to be repeated.
    Last edited by doughesson; 09-06-2005 at 12:21 PM.

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    I think they should build the city up on stilts and let it go ahead and flood again.

    and American Venice if you will
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    In just one day?"
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    Ummmmm.... Okay.

    Obviously rebuilding is what is most likely to happen, however, I don't feel that it should be done in the same way ( or on stilts ) The problem actually stems from the levies themself. Sadly it's as I heard some one state earlier--live by the levies, die by the levies. The water they are meant to keep out also hold the sedement and soil that are no longer able to settle and build up, keeping the land above the sea level. Either way, you're all right. History repeats it's self. Sadly, at 9/11 we were caught off guard and saw what happened, this time around we'd know for decades ( as did the gulf states, specifically New Orleans) and did next to nothng to improve the outcome. It's only a matter of time till we are caught with are pants down due to complacency, and the ideology that "it can't happen to me".
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    Angry Just a shining example of why they won't change...

    Party must go on’ spirit lives in New Orleans
    Mardi Gras guru: ‘Now more than ever we need a reason to celebrate’
    Katrina multimedia

    Updated: 11:14 a.m. ET Sept. 6, 2005
    NEW ORLEANS - Probably the last thing a city inundated with water and filled with human misery needs is a parade, much less a Mardi Gras.

    But just a week after Hurricane Katrina unleashed its devastation, there already are signs that New Orleans is remaining loyal to its partying ways.

    Over the weekend, about two dozen people in beads, hula skirts and wigs danced down Bourbon Street in a symbolic show that life must go on. A few months from now, there’s a good chance there might even be some kind of scaled-back Mardi Gras.

    “I think now more than ever we need a reason to celebrate. It’s really at our core,” said Arthur Hardy, publisher of the Mardi Gras Guide. “I can’t imagine the city rolling over and playing dead and saying, ‘I surrender.”’

    With thousands believed dead and authorities still unable to collect bodies floating in canals and hidden in attics, even the talk of a Mardi Gras celebration might seem disrespectful.

    Fat Tuesday on Feb. 28
    But New Orleans has always loved a good time, and when the two-week, pre-Lent celebration that ends with Fat Tuesday arrives on Feb. 28, floats could be parading down streets now covered in water.

    “Guess what? It’s New Orleans,” French Quarter resident Maryann Davis said. “We’ll always have something to parade for.”

    Mardi Gras is enormous even by this city’s standards. In 2001, more than 1,000 floats, 500 marching bands and 135,000 people paraded through the streets. One university study estimates the celebration brings in $1 billion a year to New Orleans.

    Hardy, who has been publishing his guide for 30 years and is one of the foremost experts on Mardi Gras, said next year’s celebration is also important because it’s the 150th anniversary of the first formal parades in the city.

    The Civil War interrupted partying for a time, and a total of 13 Fat Tuesdays have been canceled because of various conflicts. The Sept. 11 attacks and the 2002 Super Bowl delayed the 2002 parade.

    “I’ve heard some people say we can’t do it,” Hardy said. “But it’s a very significant anniversary and I can’t imagine it going unmarked without some kind of parade. It’s in our soul to have Mardi Gras.”

    From shelter to parade
    The old feelings are already beginning to stir in the French Quarter.

    On Sunday, a small group of revelers wearing outlandish costumes gathered for the city’s annual Southern Decadence festival, a gay event which normally draws thousands.

    Carpenter John Lambert dressed up as a member of the Village People and carried a sign reading “Life Goes On.” He was joined in the makeshift parade by people who had taken shelter in his house.

    Come February, he promised, the party will be much bigger.

    “Mardi Gras is a brew, it’s a gumbo. It’s defined by what people bring to it,” Lambert said. “There will definitely be a Mardi Gras. No doubt about it.”

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Heaven forbid you don't get to have your party while thousands of people lives have been ruined. Take all the money you wasted on a stupid parade and start giving it to neighbors.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson
    My sister owns three houses in NOLA.One was shown on TV as being burned,another she's seen flooded out and hasn't seen the third but the area it's in is unflooded and appearently unlooted.
    The Governor of Louisiana and the Mayor of New Orleans had time to get people into the Superdome,and ask for federal assistance but they didn't have time to stockpile water and food for the people to eat until the FEMA response could get underway.
    Preplanning is a mantra for us in the fire service.Be prepared is the Boy Scout Motto,yet people do not do so and it bites them in the axe.
    Taking a gator freighter(Navy amphibious assault ship)and getting it ready to take supplies for hungry and thirsty people instead of carrying Marines into combat takes a while to do.
    They should have known that and prepared instead of waiting for the government to do something.
    THEY ARE THE GOVERNMENT!
    Preplanning is one thing. There actually was an emergency plan that addressed the emergency evacuation of the city in the event of a hurricane. However, there was a problem.

    The plan was apparently designed to activate itself! Nobody told the plan. That must be the case because no one in THE GOVERNMENT activated it.

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    George, do you mean the plan that called for those 200+ flooded buses in New Orleans to evacuate those that needed the help?

    Note that the useless twit Mayor who blamed the Feds and state for not helping did not comment when asked about why the plan was not implemented. He couldn't talk because his foot was in his mouth.

    Useless politicians. I hate them!
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    WOW, tell us how you really feel DaSharkie... Actually, I agree with you most of the way, and it was the Mayor who seemed very smarmy and sure the city would ride Katrina out as having done it many times before.. but when the Mayor found out that Katrina was not the same, "almost there-missed ya", hurricane it was too late. Thus, as I stated before, the finger pointing began. BTW the "plan could not self deploy, it was smothered in political arrogance.
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    Interestingly enough that Katrina swept across Florida as a Cat 3, destructive in itself, but Florida had their act together. One day after Florida was hit, my brother-in-law a lineman, had already left to restore power. Florida instituted their emergency action plan with leaders and a command structure. See any politicians pointing fingers there?

    Where were the State Emergency Managements? What were their action plans and who was supposed to lead? The person that they're pointing their fingers at?

    Days to prepare and stockpile and yet the only thing that piled up was finger pointing.

    They really need to remember Harry S Truman.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jerrygarcia

    Days to prepare and stockpile and yet the only thing that piled up was finger pointing.

    They really need to remember Harry S Truman.

    Jerry. They are politicians. The only that politicians do (they are all essentially useless people regardless of which party they are affiliated with) is take credit or pass on blame.

    Harry Truman: "I never gave anybody Hell. I only told them the truth and they thought it was Hell."


    Sassy: You should have seen my blood pressure spiking last night when all the bleeding heart, flaming liberal, freaky freaks came out blaming everyone with an (R) after their name. At least the media (who screwed the pooch - as usual - by not researching the facts before reporting) realized the error of their ways in worshipping Mayor Nagin and turned the guns around and started asking him and the Governor why THEY screwed up.

    I hate politicians. They care about nothing but money, power, and their own job security.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    I agree for the most part. However, I have met atleast a couple of people who really did care and really did take the time to help a "nobody". My son, for one.. when he wrote a very frustrated letter to his congressman a couple of years ago asking a question. She wrote him a personal letter back expressing her saddness at his frustrations, she gave him a list of resources, and followed it up by calling one evening to see if he had any luck in his quest. (He doesn't even vote??!!) My best friend had an issue with the county and the way they were handling an issue with her son(and she knows he's no angel) and other rowdy teens in the community. She started calling congressmen, senators and the Govenors office. Of all the people she called, one "new" congressman responded--with a personal visit to her home while he was in his district! He continued to follow her progress as she tried to get something to change the problems of her community. He called her, wrote her, sent her various people to help her in her quest to improve the options available to the youth where she lived... what did he get for being a truly concrned congressman?? No re-election. He lost after one term to someone else because he didn't have the money to run the kind of campaign his opponent did. So there are good people out there.. but I feel the nature of the office itself has become so grossly corrupt that it either consumes those who take it or destroys them. You know what they say.. "Good intentions pave the road to Hell."
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    It's hard to evacuate when your arms are full of guns and stereos.
    Seriously, I have never seen a more pathetic display of a LACK of LEADERSHIP from a city's mayor than in New Orleans.
    The mayor has bought in to the notion that these people could not even help themselves.
    A very poor message was sent on the sense of urgency. The citizens thought that leaving was optional.
    I put much of the blame-after all, that's what we are looking for, right?-on the mayor and governor. Period.
    FEMA did not agree to take the lead role as Senator Clinton would claim and Rumsfeld said it nicely when he said they activated as soon as they were asked.
    There was ZERO leadership in the beginning and the beginning was when the Gulf Coast was told that Katrina was coming.
    IMHO.
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    Contrast their pathetic display of foot-stomping and cry-babying with Rudy Giuliani and George Pataki.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Contrast their pathetic display of foot-stomping and cry-babying with Rudy Giuliani and George Pataki.
    Like night and day isn't it George?

    And to think Rudy and Pataki (whose son is a Marine thank you very much ) had NO warning of the incident (unless you believe the conspiracy theorists) while the twits in New Orleans and Lousiana had at least 48 hours warning it was going to hit them definitively. Add to that the knowledge that they knew that it would be close several days earlier.

    Lest we also forget the folks in Mississippi don't seem to be bitching and whining like the folks in Lousiana were and they were flooded out and blown out of their homes too.
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    Lest we also forget the folks in Mississippi don't seem to be bitching and whining like the folks in Lousiana were and they were flooded out and blown out of their homes too.
    Seems like they whave experienced far less loss of human life. Also sounds like their governor is nowhere near as inept as that bimbo in La. I wonder if there is a correlation?

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    I think the majority of us understand (unlike lay persons) what an emergency disaster plan entails and how it's suppose to be put into effect. If the local government breaks down right from the start the problem only worsens. We understand that the local, county and state officials must begin the process and do it effectively. The federal government can't just walk in and take things over (the LA Governor still refuses to give up any authority) thus they must rely on the local, county and state officials to begin their job's first, then notify the federal authorities so thay may respond. I feel there is enough blame to go around and the federal government is culpable but the lower level authorities started screwing the pooch days before the hurricane hit (DOH category 5 hurricane, let's not do what's right and prudent). Apparently they are not as prepared as say Florida, which has an impressive operation to say the least. Maybe the local, county and state officials need to study Florida and understand what their responsibility is. Does any of this make sense?
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 09-08-2005 at 01:08 PM.

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    Just remember,several thousand drug addicts are going cold turkey.
    There's some pretty mental pictures.

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    I heard today that the Salvation Army had truck loads of food and water to take into the Super Dome right away, but the State Homeland office said no because they didn't want more people to show up there. They said they wanted everyone to leave the area and that if word got out that they had food and water at the Super Dome everyone would show up there.

    Patrick

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    I was always under the impression that the state and local govt's needed to be able to stand on their own 2 feet for at least 72 hours. That would give the feds time to get their act together.

    I was watching TCM and they showed an old civilian defence short were they told the populace then they needed to have enough stuff and a plan to last about 5 days. If that was the advice 50-60 years ago why isnt it the same now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainS
    I was watching TCM and they showed an old civilian defence short were they told the populace then they needed to have enough stuff and a plan to last about 5 days. If that was the advice 50-60 years ago why isnt it the same now?
    Because there is a large and growing element in this country that is pushing us more towards Socialism and in doing so our society thinks that the Federal Government is the end all - be all great savior to anything that should ever happen to you.

    Pretty sad isn't it? I'll take care of, and be responsible for myself thank you very much. I'll be better off.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Just read this Snopes.com article pertaining to some of the topics discussed in this thread.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/nagin.asp

    Now while I dont count Snopes as the most reliable resource, I do think that they do their research. Take it for what its worth.
    Shawn M. Cecula
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    I never thought that they turned down federal aid, but I do think that both the Governor and Mayor are twits who failed in their roles as leaders and failed to properly serve teh people who elected them and pay their salaries.

    Still takes a long time to get things rolling. National Gurad troops have several hours to be called up, gear up, be at armories, muster equipment, rally at points, then truck into an area from multiple states and directions through other areas affected to get to New Orleans.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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