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    Default Q about New Orleas FD Equipment

    I work a rural fire company, so water ops are ingrained in us. I'm wondering if the New Orleans FD isn't equipped to draft from standing water or is there some other reason they don't seem to be able to deal with getting water on the fires in some areas. Where' it's not flooded, I see the difficulty, but where it IS flooded, I wonder if they have the tools needed to draft right where they engine sits.

    Anyone know first hand what they are facing down there for water supply?

    Did you see those pix of the guys in bunker gear in water up to their knees? What a nightmare!

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    Default NOFD Fire Apparatus

    NOFD fire apparatus ARE equipped to draft (i.e. hard intake hoses and strainers). As to why they may not be drafting, I am not sure.

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    Before questioning why they are not drafting to put out fires, ask yourself a question....

    What's in the water?

    Debris, biohazards from dead and decaying bodies, raw sewage, hazardous materials, etc.

    Do you want that going through the pump?
    Do you want your personnel exposed to that?
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 09-06-2005 at 09:32 PM.
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    Exclamation water

    Get 'em Capt.Gonzo. Spraying that filthy water would do wonders for furthering the spread of disease not too mention what the firefighters would be exposed to by spraying the junk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GPSGuy
    I work a rural fire company, so water ops are ingrained in us. I'm wondering if the New Orleans FD isn't equipped to draft from standing water or is there some other reason they don't seem to be able to deal with getting water on the fires in some areas.
    A few things.

    1. Would you want to draft that crap? I'd hardly call it 'water'

    2. If the standing 'water' is that deep, you may not be able to drive the truck into it to get close enough to the fire anyway.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    One other aspect: Risk vs Gain

    Would you risk an attack on a structure that is nearly destroyed anyway?
    We struck down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not bickering.

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    The reason they are not drafting is simple, New Orleans is flat. They area where you see the fires is not under water. Almost all of the down town is dry. They have been using tankers from the national guard. Oh about drafting out of the river ... the levee walls are way to high downtown, cant get a engine up there.
    hope this helps

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    I saw a story on ABC News this evening about the contamination in the water. The test for just one substance, fecal coliform bacteria, was 45,000 times the safe permissible level for a beach.

    Damn, that's downright nasty!
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    Default NOFD & Drafting

    I agree with the above mentioned opinions but here are a few of my own:

    1. If push came to shove, I'd draft the "water" and hope the strainer caught the big stuff.

    2. At this point in the game, the contaminants are merely icing on the cake... I am sure all of the pumps will need a MAJOR overhaul/checkup after this is over.

    3. Consider, on any given day, how much sand and other debris are found in hydrant water (I'll give you a hint... it's alot. I used to be a firefighter in the New Orleans area)

    ...just my two cents....

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    Default Thx CaptainGonzo

    Yeah, I guess a fog stream of sewage & oil would NOT be wise!

    Thanks for giving me that perspective, I didn't really think of that.

    I know the PUMPS can handle some particulates - but I guess you're right that there's just too much crap in the water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjtoc2
    I agree with the above mentioned opinions but here are a few of my own:

    1. If push came to shove, I'd draft the "water" and hope the strainer caught the big stuff.

    2. At this point in the game, the contaminants are merely icing on the cake... I am sure all of the pumps will need a MAJOR overhaul/checkup after this is over.

    3. Consider, on any given day, how much sand and other debris are found in hydrant water (I'll give you a hint... it's alot. I used to be a firefighter in the New Orleans area)

    ...just my two cents....
    The solid debris in the water is relatively harmless; it is the bacteria and germs that we don't want to be spreading through the air. Send that water through a fog nozzle, or even the back and side spray from a solid stream and you will essentially be using an aerosol delivery method to spread a bio agent.

    That said, worst comes to worse, if I was in charge and to Monday morning quarterback from 1000 miles away, I would be looking at the immediate saving of the buildings/blocks/neighborhoods vs. the fact that you can put everyone on scene on a regime of anti-biotic, which is likely to be done anyhow to deal with the contamination issues. Everything down there will have to be bleached after it is dry as well, anyhow. How far can any of the fires be from the flooded sections of the city? With so many fire departments sending assets and men, why can't a temp relay water main be set up from pumper to pumper, from the flooded area to the fire? Sort of like the original concept of the SuperPumper system? You have to be creative in these sorts of circumstances people!
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    it seemed the water problems that were being referred to was in places where the water has already receded and the hydrant system is still down

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    I read a story earlier today that said they were drafting where possible, but the debris was constantly clogging the strainer to the point they were clearing it with a shovel.

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    Wonder how a "Turbo draft" would work getting water from the river over the levees ?

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    get creative - depending how deep the water is cut a hole in a shopping cart feed the suction hose thru - don't completely submerge the cart - the wire cart will hold back the big items and the normal strainer on the end of the suction hose will stop the smaller stuff

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    Likely noone has thought of (the incompetent fools at La Emerg Mgmt gotten around to requesting) but the Army keeps many many miles of 4" and 6" hoseline (victaulic couplings, 1000' sections in 6'x12'x'1 metal crates) in stock. Used for long distance relay of fuel and water. And hundreds of wheeled engine powered pumps to emplace as required.

    Our FD has 9000' of this 4" hose (new in factory crates) and 2x 350gpm (@375'hd) sitting my warehouse. If need clear water until the water mains are drained sanitized and restarted is simple matter of laying lines into the city from a clean source.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa
    Likely noone has thought of (the incompetent fools at La Emerg Mgmt gotten around to requesting) but the Army keeps many many miles of 4" and 6" hoseline (victaulic couplings, 1000' sections in 6'x12'x'1 metal crates) in stock. Used for long distance relay of fuel and water. And hundreds of wheeled engine powered pumps to emplace as required.

    Our FD has 9000' of this 4" hose (new in factory crates) and 2x 350gpm (@375'hd) sitting my warehouse. If need clear water until the water mains are drained sanitized and restarted is simple matter of laying lines into the city from a clean source.
    Maybe they do not know about this hose, so why don't you give them a call and tell them, oh yea you might have a hard time getting through with all the screwed up phone lines.
    GFIRE

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    With so many fire departments sending assets and men, why can't a temp relay water main be set up from pumper to pumper, from the flooded area to the fire? Sort of like the original concept of the SuperPumper system? You have to be creative in these sorts of circumstances people!
    I was thinking the same thing. I know the county north of me set up a 5 mile LDH relay for a huge brush fire a couple years ago, so I know it can be done. Maybe NOFD doesnt have LDH.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoseheadmaps
    get creative - depending how deep the water is cut a hole in a shopping cart feed the suction hose thru - don't completely submerge the cart - the wire cart will hold back the big items and the normal strainer on the end of the suction hose will stop the smaller stuff
    That is a heck of an idea, I will have to remember that if push comes to shove and we (heaven forbid) are forced to draft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfowlston
    Maybe they do not know about this hose, so why don't you give them a call and tell them, oh yea you might have a hard time getting through with all the screwed up phone lines.
    Have register our available equipment at the SE Region DHS site. Of course no return contact.

    Our meager hose contribution would not be as effective as just calling the Army. A petroleum platoon would deploy with 60mi of 6" hose and pumps to relay pump as directed. Their sister tank farm section couple be deployed establish storage (using collapsible tanks of 50000-250000gal capacity) for up to 1,000,000 barrels (they could put a 50000gal tank on every street corner if so ordered).

    Evening news says some of the mains are back in operation in NO (in the dry sections I assume).

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