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  1. #1
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    Default Mayor orders forced removal of all in city

    Tuesday, September 06, 2005

    Mayor orders forced removal of all in city
    (New Orleans, LA, Sept. 6, 2005) Mayor Nagin today released a declaration of Emergency Order for the City of New Orleans. The declaration reads as follows:

    Whereas, the presence of individuals not specifically engaged by the City, State or U.S. Government to assist in the remediation and recovery effort would distract, impede, or divert essential resources from the recover effort.

    Now, therefore, I as the Mayor of the City of New Orleans, pursuant to the authority granted by Louisiana Revised Statutes 29:727 and: 730.2, do hereby promulgate and issue the following mandatory evacuation order, which shall supercede the Order issued by me on August 28, 2005, which shall remain in effect for thirty days from this date, unless extended by my order or earlier terminated by my order:

    Civil District Court District Court for the Parish of Orleans, State of Louisiana City of New Orleans

    Promulgation of Emergency Order

    Whereas, Hurricane Katrina has caused catastrophic damage to the City of New Orleans, including, without limitation, several breaches in the levee system, loss of power and water service and the collapse and or loss of structural integrity of roadways, building and other structures;

    Whereas, the above referenced damage necessitates an immediate and unimpeded recovery effort by the City, the State of Louisiana and the Untied States Government;

    Effective immediately, any public safety officer within the boundaries of the Parish of Orleans, including, without limitation, members of the New Orleans, including, without limitation, members of the New Orleans Police Department, the New Orleans Fire Department, the National Guard and any branch of the U.S. Military, is hereby instructed and authorized to compel the evacuation of all persons from the City of New Orleans, regardless of whether such persons are on private property or do not desire to leave, unless such persons are determined by such public safety officers to be specifically engaged by the City, the State or the U. S. Government in providing assistance in the remediation and recovery effort.

    Those persons who are currently located in Algiers on the West Bank side of Orleans Parish are hereby excepted from this Order.

    The City Attorney is hereby directed to file this Order with the Clerk of Court.

    Mayor C. Ray Nagin


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    Holy Cow.....what a decision by the mayor. Nothing like being a day late (okay, maybe a few days late) and a dollar short. So rescue crews for the last two or three days have advised residents to leave. They have explained what could happen to the residents if they choose to stay. The residents made the decision to stay, so the rescue crew moved on. Now, the crews will have to double back and use force if needed.

    Those crews have taken a beating. Now the mayor tells them to use force if needed and clear everyone out. I am sure the crews have been trying to do this day and night. What else is the mayor going to ask of them? Pick up a shovel and start clearing debris in front of city hall?

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    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    Force? In what ways are firefighters equipped to use force? Hoselines at 200 PSI?

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD1983
    Force? In what ways are firefighters equipped to use force? Hoselines at 200 PSI?
    Hmmm, I agree with you there on the enforcement side of it. However, its about time. This should have been Ordered a week ago, when the "Powers That Be" first identified that a hurricane was going ashore. When the reports were made about NO etc "looking like a ghost town", that is what I expected.... NO ONE HOME because they all left persuant to instructions given to evacuate the potentially affected areas.

    My heart goes to those who lost what they lost, but it is not very sympathetic towards those who chose to stay. I know I am going to get bashed for saying that, and I have counter arguements to most of it. Suffice to say that the local government had the tools to do something before things got bad - they also chose "not to".

    I wonder how many school, city transit and long haul buses are sitting in various parking lots, flooded out right now and totally useless to anyone?
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

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    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    The mayor continues to expose his blithering incompetences every time he open's his mouth. He should just hand in his resignation and leave. I would have found a way to charge him criminally by now if I had any say in the matter.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    He is a week and two days late with this order don't you think?
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  7. #7
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Actaully, this is the second time he is ordering a mandatory evacuation that isn't mandatory. He ordered it before the storm but didn't actually evacuate anyone but the people with cars. He issued it again today, but doesn't have anyone to actually enforce it. The police said they refuse to force people out. The military said they refuse to force people out. The fire department sure isn't going to do it. So that leaves what? The dog warden?
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Permanently Removed hoseheadmaps's Avatar
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    I do believe Philadelphia has found it's next mayor

    I know my dept dealt with 2 major floods in the last year - sitting on the Delaware river - we told people that we we're not coming back to get them, this was their one chance to get out. some stayed but most left

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    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    More from our news feeds:

    Washington Post September 9, 2005

    Troops Escalate Urgency Of Evacuation

    By Timothy Dwyer and Ann Scott Tyson, Washington Post Staff Writers

    NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 8 -- Outside Kajun's Pub, between the relatively dry French Quarter and the heavily flooded Ninth Ward, bar owner JoAnn Guidos loaded up her 1991 Ford Econoline van with clothing, liquor and other necessities Thursday morning. After holding out for 10 days, Guidos and her friends were finally leaving New Orleans and heading to high ground.

    The beer was still cold, thanks to a working generator, and hopes for customers were strong as the flood-ravaged city fills with thirsty soldiers and emergency workers.

    But on Wednesday night, Guidos said, armed federal agents identifying themselves as U.S. marshals confiscated her weapons and ordered her and six friends to leave by noon Thursday.

    "When you get 15 M-16s pointed at you and they line you up against the wall, it's kind of scary," said Guidos, 55.

    With floodwaters continuing to recede and cleanup efforts beginning in earnest, police and the military set out on an aggressive door-to-door campaign here Thursday, urging remaining residents to leave or be removed by force.

    The former Big Easy took on the air of a military encampment, as thousands of reserve and active-duty troops began patrolling the city and assisting police in search-and-rescue missions. Houses were marked with codes indicating whether any residents -- living or dead -- were found inside. Emergency workers intensified efforts to divide the city into grids in order to methodically retrieve an unknown number of corpses still in the floodwaters or entombed in ruined homes and businesses.

    Although the mayor issued a forcible evacuation order, Louisiana and federal officials said they remained hopeful that most stragglers will leave voluntarily when faced with urgent warnings about dwindling supplies and hazardous floodwaters.

    "We need everybody out so we can continue with the work of restoring this city," Vice Admiral Thad W. Allen, the U.S. Coast Guard chief of staff who has taken over the federal response in New Orleans, said early in the day on CBS.

    P. Edwin Compass, the superintendent of police, said there are thousands of people remaining in the city but that authorities are determined to get everyone out. He said as little force as necessary would be used but that staying is not an option. Anyone with a weapon, even one legally registered, will have it confiscated, he said.

    "No one will be able to be armed," Compass said. "Guns will be taken. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns."

    The evacuation effort, however, appeared haphazard at best. Affluent areas that were not flooded, such as parts of the Garden District and Uptown, appear to be a low priority for mandatory evacuations.

    In the dry neighborhood of Marigny Triangle, residents lounged in lawn chairs while listening to music blaring from "Radio Marigny," an impromptu outdoor music station. The area remained largely untouched by floodwaters, and residents say they see little reason to leave.

    Peter and Amy Bas, who have four children ages 5 to 14, noted that they had already cleaned debris from their street. As the couple relaxed in their front yard, a Louisiana state trooper cruised by and asked if they needed diapers.

    "Where are we going to go?" Peter Bas asked. "They're going to take us and put us somewhere with 5,000 other people? We're going to stay."

    Amy Bas added: "It could happen, but you think you're living in America and nobody is going to make you leave your home."

    Police and the National Guard were aided by hundreds of paratroopers from the 82nd Airborne Division, who canvassed the French Quarter and neighborhoods surrounding the convention center and Superdome.

    Active-duty U.S. troops such as the 82nd Airborne lack law enforcement authority in a domestic city such as New Orleans, and therefore must avoid direct involvement in forcibly evicting people. Local police warned that they expected friction with residents as they moved forcefully to pull them out, 82nd Airborne commanders said.

    The paratroopers, along with other U.S. soldiers, patrolled parts of the city section by section in boats, trucks and on foot, looking to persuade more stragglers to leave.

    "Hey! Evacuation!" Sgt. Geriah McAvin, 27, of Detroit yelled toward a block of red brick apartments as his 82nd Airborne platoon rolled into a flooded housing project in two lumbering, five-ton trucks. "Hey! We're here to take you out of here."

    One man on crutches waved to the passing trucks from his front stoop. But when the five-ton circled around to get him, he hesitated.

    "You're not taking me to the Superdome?" asked Alfred Jones, 43.

    "No Superdome!" Dennison said.

    Eventually, Jones gave in, wincing and moaning in pain as the soldiers lifted him onto the truck. Jones, who lived alone, has severe arthritis in his legs and said he had survived with the help of a friend who brought him food. But his friend left a few days ago, and Jones had not eaten for at least a day and he ran out of water on Wednesday. Given his leg condition, waving down a helicopter was out of the question, he said.

    With major levee breaks patched earlier this week, and a growing number of pumps sending water into nearby Lake Pontchartrain, the floodwaters appeared to be dropping quickly on Thursday. Drier conditions in many areas allowed crews to step up efforts clearing branches, lumber, bricks and other debris, piling the rubble along roadsides and trolley tracks on St. Charles Avenue and other once-picturesque boulevards.

    The Environmental Protection Agency also continued to monitor the foul and polluted floodwater that still covers much of New Orleans, testing for more than 100 kinds of chemicals, according to EPA Administrator Steve Johnson. The fetid water, along with the toxic sediment left behind, is one of the main reasons authorities are so adamant about a full evacuation, officials said.

    "The water is unsafe," Johnson said in an interview. "This is not just putting in a couple of water bottles. . . . Ultimately we will do whatever testing is needed to assure ourselves, and the public, that the land and water is safe."

    EPA officials hope to begin testing the sediment left in the hurricane's wake as early as next week, but they are waiting for an independent scientific board to approve their soil-testing plan. Johnson said he and others are "not letting bureaucracy get in the way" but are intent on devising a credible scientific approach to the survey.

    As of Thursday, the official death toll from Hurricane Katrina rose to 118 in Louisiana and 201 in Mississippi. But those numbers, provided by authorities in charge of processing the dead, contrast wildly with projections and the preparations that are underway.

    In Louisiana, a contractor working with the Federal Emergency Management Agency has set aside 25,000 body bags, and New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin has said as many as 10,000 people could be dead in the city.

    Ten days after the Category 4 storm struck the Gulf Coast, many officials said they still do not know what to expect, nor are they willing to provide projections for a final death toll.

    "We're not giving estimates -- we're not looking for a body count," said Melissa Walker, a spokeswoman for the Louisiana Department of Health and Hospitals, working at the state emergency operations center. "These are individual lives that are lost, and each one of them is important."

    One example of the difficulty in obtaining reliable information can be seen in St. Bernard Parish, a devastated area 20 miles southeast of downtown New Orleans. Rep. Charlie Melancon (D-La.) said earlier this week that he was told that as many as 100 people died at a warehouse in Chalmette while awaiting rescue, but Melancon later said that number was incorrect.

    Staff writers Dan Eggen, Juliet Eilperin, Sue Anne Pressley and Cheryl W. Thompson in Washington; Robert E. Pierre in New Orleans; and Jacqueline L. Salmon in Baton Rouge, La., contributed to this report.


    I just keep wondering why this wasn't done sooner.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

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    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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  10. #10
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    Default Forced evacuations

    This will be one of the many things communities evaluate. Can we, should we, how would we??? Anyone can say we really can't do this legally, and that's generally true. We usually get most to move because they trust us, or they think they have to go. You can't get everyone to agree to go. In this case, so far the Governor hasn't supported the Mayor's plan, so time will tell. We also generally think it's important to protect out homes and stuff as well. But that's only part of the remaining occupants. Some don't know about all the hazards around them. Some are more afraid of the life changing act of leaving a part of their lives, they fear will never return. It's all understandable. All that is, except for the local terrorists, but they're being "assisted" at every opportunity I think. Suits me.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Skwerl530's Avatar
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    Default question

    Would this not fall under a protective custody situation? George you seem knowledgable about the law. Would this not apply?
    We struck down evil with the mighty sword of teamwork and the hammer of not bickering.

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    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Under Louisiana law, the Governor and the Parish President (who in Orleans Parish is the Mayor) have the authority to remove people.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  13. #13
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
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    Exclamation Politics Over Duty

    Katrina Story


    This is a post from Bill Weiler, freelance journalist, in Merritt
    Island, FL, who has been researching what went on before the storm hit. These are the authors comments.

    --
    Politics over Duty

    I think all of Mayor Nagin's pomp and posturing is going to bite him hard in the near future as the lies and distortions of his interviews are coming to light.

    On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of NO and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it
    was destroyed.

    President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency Act). Just before midnight
    Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military couldlegally begin mobilization and call up. He was told that they didn't think
    it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.

    Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation. After a personal plea from the President, Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action. In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state
    request federal aid before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster.

    Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to NO for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships. Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal government for funding and published on the city's website was never
    implemented and in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan
    were never contacted or coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they were.

    The suffering people of NO need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states. Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps harping that the President should have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.

    This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but
    been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future.


    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    How about DC with his ladder trucks that don't get used very often enough to warrant manning?
    When the govenrment tells those that cannot get out on their own to go to a place of shelter,it become the government's responsibility to ensure that food water and sanitation will be available.
    This was not done at the Superdome.
    How is it the President's fault?
    Just asking the general crowd after suggesting an alternative to Philadelphia.


    Quote Originally Posted by hoseheadmaps
    I do believe Philadelphia has found it's next mayor

    I know my dept dealt with 2 major floods in the last year - sitting on the Delaware river - we told people that we we're not coming back to get them, this was their one chance to get out. some stayed but most left

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    Permanently Removed hoseheadmaps's Avatar
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    good question how is it bush's fault - it's not

    the louder the demos are crying the more their covering up.

    the facts are now bearing this out.

    they had 40 years to plan for this - not 2 days.

    one would say the mayor is a bit lazy - hundreds of busses sat idol.

    we use a system called the C.A.N - citizens action network. it automatically calls residents in the areas you need to notify by phone.

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    Wink politics

    Let me say this about that; uh where was I. Oh forget it; lets have a meeting to decide what I was going to say. On second thought maybe I shouldn't say anything at all. Oh, lets call the whole thing off.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoseheadmaps
    good question how is it bush's fault - it's not

    the louder the demos are crying the more their covering up.

    the facts are now bearing this out.

    they had 40 years to plan for this - not 2 days.

    one would say the mayor is a bit lazy - hundreds of busses sat idol.

    we use a system called the C.A.N - citizens action network. it automatically calls residents in the areas you need to notify by phone.
    hundreds of school busses sat idle, while Nagin asked for greyhound buses.......

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    Forum Member spearsm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson
    How about DC with his ladder trucks that don't get used very often enough to warrant manning?
    When the govenrment tells those that cannot get out on their own to go to a place of shelter,it become the government's responsibility to ensure that food water and sanitation will be available.
    This was not done at the Superdome.
    How is it the President's fault?
    Just asking the general crowd after suggesting an alternative to Philadelphia.
    First off. I fully believe that the beginning of this domino effect lies solely with the Mayor. On top of that, he's barking too hard right now. Typically, that's a sure sign of guilt. In my own research, when I witness one of my children hit another, usually the one screaming louder by the time they reach me is the one who is typically the initiator.

    Now. I just want to clarify. He/they did specify that there were no shelters. He refered to them as places of last resort. Best memory serves, he stated that there were no shelters in N.O.

    Still. This doesn't wash away the fact that the Mayor dropped the ball. I have read where he was blaming the Gov. and the President. I guess he is raise `n cain because they didn't reach out fast enough to cover his *****. IMO>FWIW
    YGBSM!
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    Permanently Removed hoseheadmaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfd3501
    hundreds of school busses sat idle, while Nagin asked for greyhound buses.......
    HUMMMM what's easier to do commandeer a private companies property (greyhound buses) which are scattered over hundreds of miles or just take a short ride up the street to get the vehicles that could have saved thousands of lives. gee sorry the buses had no air conditioning and comfortable seats and on board movies, maybe the people didn't feel safe because they didn't have seat belts.

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