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  1. #41
    Forum Member Spectre08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by parafire81
    I guess I fail to recognize what I am supposed to prove. I don't remember saying anything about 66% in New Orleans. What I said was many of the New Orleans units are in Iraq.

    only 33% of Louisiana's national guard troops are in Iraq. Unless all remaining troops were called up and sent to New Orleans, there would have been no more troops in new orleans than there are now.

    edit: and I am frankly appauled by anybody suggesting that us being in Iraq somehow delayed our response or dulled our abilities. We are America, if we can't deal with 2 things at once, then frankly, we're screwed.
    Last edited by Spectre08; 09-15-2005 at 09:30 AM.
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  2. #42
    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    Default You're welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by ARH176
    Sheri, thank you!!

    Alan

    (edited for spelling, don't ask.)
    Spelled your name wrong? hehehe

    I may have helped get the thread back on track, but sure didn't ease the tension and ugliness

    I was going to respond to you privately so as to not hijack the thread any more than it already has been, but you don't have PM or email enabled.
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  3. #43
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    To suggest that the Louisiana national gurds's presence in Iraq had anything to do with thier response is ridiculous. The fact is there response was slighly delayed was the fact theaqt there were mobilized later than on would expect for a KNOWN problem ... and there was no set plan for thier use on the state level causing them to "stage" rather than immediatly act.

    If you want to say that there activity is Iraq was a factor, this simply goes towards proving my point that the state OEM had no plan to utilize other regional/state resources to make up for the lower than usual number of guardsman. After all, they knew there was a percentage out of the state. A true plan has provisions for issues such as this .. and this just shows how unprepared the state was to exicute it.

    On the point of the guard being in Iraq .. thier primary role is to support the military in active operations, not to sit around waiting for a disaster. If you feel that is thier primary role, maybe we should take away thier tanks and arty and equip them with rescue equiment and tractor trailers to haul supplies.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 09-15-2005 at 05:31 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator
    To suggest that the Louisiana national gurds's presence in Iraq had anything to do with thier response is ridiculous. The fact is there response was slighly delayed was the fact theaqt there were mobilized later than on would expect for a KNOWN problem ... and there was no set plan for thier use on the state level causing them to "stage" rather than immediatly act.

    If you want to say that there activity is Iraq was a factor, this simply goes towards proving my point that the state OEM had no plan to utilize other regional/state resources to make up for the lower than usual number of guardsman. After all, they knew there was a percentage out of the state. A true plan has provisions for issues such as this .. and this just shows how unprepared the state was to exicute it.

    On the point of the guard being in Iraq .. thier primary role is to support the military in active operations, not to sit around waiting for a disaster. If you feel that is thier primary role, maybe we should take away thier tanks and arty and equip them with rescue equiment and tractor trailers to haul supplies.
    Alright, that's it....

    When I made the comment about the NO units in Iraq, I did not mean it with complete seriousness. Everyone seems to want to point fingers....and after having political debates on other threads in this forum, I threw it out there...primarily because I feel that the National Guard exists for the protection of THIS country (Hence the name..."NATIONAL GUARD"). We have career military who should fight our wars elsewhere...especially one as ludicrous as the one in Iraq.

    With that being said...one can't argue this disaster was screwed from the beginning. As I have said before on other threads...it has happened...clean it up...move on...get over it....make sure it doesn't happen again. But, I know that won't happen....like 9/11, this is going to be hashed out for years....we'll have to spend millions on Senate hearings, and ultimately nothing will change.

    Now, I'll climb down off my soapbox.

    My sincerest apologies to anyone I might have offended, oppressed, or somehow outraged by my statements.

    Thank You

  5. #45
    Forum Member Spectre08's Avatar
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    When I made the comment about the NO units in Iraq, I did not mean it with complete seriousness. Everyone seems to want to point fingers....and after having political debates on other threads in this forum, I threw it out there...primarily because I feel that the National Guard exists for the protection of THIS country (Hence the name..."NATIONAL GUARD"). We have career military who should fight our wars elsewhere...especially one as ludicrous as the one in Iraq.
    I think you need to go back and have another look at the Constitution.

    and besides. There are about 50,000 National Guard troops deployed right now. there are over 310,000 still here in the U.S. doin' the weekend warrior thing.

    And there wouldn't have to be that many deployed if the Clintoon administration hadn't spent it's entire 8 years focusing on the systematic scraping of our active duty military in favor of guard and reservists.

    I agree completely that foreign wars should be almost the sole responsibility of the active duty military, they are the career soldiers who chose that life. But until we build an active duty military with the numbers to wage a full scale war without calling up guard troops, it's just not gonna happen.
    When I get to hell
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    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

  6. #46
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    Go get em spectre! How old are you? 19? 20? I really enjoyed watching you go after Dennis - then it was icing on the cake when parafire chimed in! You boys better get more on the ball before you go after Spectre! The kid is running circle around you two. HaHaHa.

  7. #47
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Sorry everyone...I couldn't resist remarking on the ignorance here......

    Quote Originally Posted by parafire81
    ...primarily because I feel that the National Guard exists for the protection of THIS country (Hence the name..."NATIONAL GUARD"). We have career military who should fight our wars elsewhere...especially one as ludicrous as the one in Iraq.
    First you need to forget the mainstream, popular, MTV beliefs....and do some research.....this may help....check out what it says.....Thier mission is simple...first Federal, then State....

    The Guard/Reserves have been getting activated for "real world" missions since the early 90's.

    http://www.arng.army.mil/

    Now, I'll climb down off my soapbox.
    Take it with you and burn it at your next drill.....
    Last edited by VinnieB; 09-19-2005 at 01:10 AM.

  8. #48
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    .....definately don't belong in the U.S. Military.

    LOL....he's going into the USAF....that's not the US Military!!!


    HAHAHA...relax...I love interservice rivalry.....besides....the USAF got it right.....they send the Officers to do the fighting.

  9. #49
    OSD122
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB
    .....besides....the USAF got it right.....they send the Officers to do the fighting.
    Yea, but they send their enlisted in first just to tell the officers where to go.



  10. #50
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB
    The Guard/Reserves have been getting activated for "real world" missions since the early 90's.

    http://www.arng.army.mil/
    Yeah, since the 1790's.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  11. #51
    Forum Member Spectre08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OSD122
    Yea, but they send their enlisted in first just to tell the officers where to go.


    Combat Control leads the way. If I don't do well enough on the FDNY test to have a realistic shot at getting the job I'm probably gonna cross train into Pararescue or Combat Control after 3 or 4 years and reenlist.
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

  12. #52
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Yeah, since the 1790's.....

    LOL...oh how your are SOOOO correct!

  13. #53
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre08
    Combat Control leads the way. If I don't do well enough on the FDNY test to have a realistic shot at getting the job I'm probably gonna cross train into Pararescue or Combat Control after 3 or 4 years and reenlist.

    You might as well do that anyway b/c it will take you 3-4 years to get hired.

  14. #54
    Forum Member Spectre08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinnieB
    You might as well do that anyway b/c it will take you 3-4 years to get hired.
    Well, the next FDNY test, the one I'm going to take, is next october, exactly 3 full years before my contract will be up. If I cross train after the minimum time, 24 months, then I still have to reup because the training period for Pararescue is so long, and I'll be in until after the next test.

    and besides, I'm gonna give firefighting a go, and maybe I'll love it so much I won't want to change.
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre08
    I think you need to go back and have another look at the Constitution.

    and besides. There are about 50,000 National Guard troops deployed right now. there are over 310,000 still here in the U.S. doin' the weekend warrior thing.

    And there wouldn't have to be that many deployed if the Clintoon administration hadn't spent it's entire 8 years focusing on the systematic scraping of our active duty military in favor of guard and reservists.

    I agree completely that foreign wars should be almost the sole responsibility of the active duty military, they are the career soldiers who chose that life. But until we build an active duty military with the numbers to wage a full scale war without calling up guard troops, it's just not gonna happen.
    How many military bases were just closed by the Bush Administration?

    I think I would have less of a problem with National Guard troops being sent to a foreign war if it had some degree of value to it. We went to Iraq with a mission...that mission was completed when Saddam Hussein was captured. Now it's time to come home....but we're still there.

    I see my friends being deployed to a war that is just not worth fighting anymore, and yeah, I have a little bit of a problem with the National Guard, who is responsible for defending OUR soil, being deployed to defend SOMEONE ELSE'S soil.

  16. #56
    Forum Member IronsMan53's Avatar
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    You just don't get it do you? No matter how much anybody dislikes this war, we cannot just pull out. If we do that then we'll end up with another Afghanistan with a huge base of operation for terrorists. We need to stay long enough to have a stable government in place before we can pull out. Otherwise the unstable situation will breed terrorists that will make 9-11 look like a dress rehersal.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by parafire81
    How many military bases were just closed by the Bush Administration?

    I think I would have less of a problem with National Guard troops being sent to a foreign war if it had some degree of value to it. We went to Iraq with a mission...that mission was completed when Saddam Hussein was captured. Now it's time to come home....but we're still there.

    I see my friends being deployed to a war that is just not worth fighting anymore, and yeah, I have a little bit of a problem with the National Guard, who is responsible for defending OUR soil, being deployed to defend SOMEONE ELSE'S soil.
    Obviously you have no clue what the current BRAC is all about. It isn't just about closing bases, its about realignment of the Military given the resources it has. By closing bases and combining their resources they allow for more efficient use of the Active duty positions. There are no active Duty numbers cuts. There are civilian job loses but no military personnel reductions. The real cuts in military strength happened in the 90's. the reduction is troops that occured then was incredible. We went from a nearly 600 ship Navy to 300. It seemed like every week in Bremerton Shipyard that another ship came in to be decommed.
    I am not going to rehash why you are wrong about this war not being worht fighting for "anymore". You won't listen anyway. But you abviously don't understand the mission and focus of the National Guard as has been established in earlier posts.

    What did you think. Get Sadaam and Get out. You really are Naive. You don't just get the evil dictator out and then leave so his cronies can retake control. After WW2 did we just get hitler and the get out. Do you realize that we were helping to establish democracy in Germany for over 10 yrs after their surrender.
    Come one Parafire-get a clue about the real world
    Last edited by chrnea; 09-20-2005 at 11:11 AM.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrnea
    Obviously you have no clue what the current BRAC is all about. It isn't just about closing bases, its about realignment of the Military given the resources it has. By closing bases and combining their resources they allow for more efficient use of the Active duty positions. There are no active Duty numbers cuts. There are civilian job loses but no military personnel reductions. The real cuts in military strength happened in the 90's. the reduction is troops that occured then was incredible. We went from a nearly 600 ship Navy to 300. It seemed like every week in Bremerton Shipyard that another ship came in to be decommed.
    I am not going to rehash why you are wrong about this war not being worht fighting for "anymore". You won't listen anyway. But you abviously don't understand the mission and focus of the National Guard as has been established in earlier posts.

    What did you think. Get Sadaam and Get out. You really are Naive. You don't just get the evil dictator out and then leave so his cronies can retake control. After WW2 did we just get hitler and the get out. Do you realize that we were helping to establish democracy in Germany for over 10 yrs after their surrender.
    Come one Parafire-get a clue about the real world
    Don't you just love all the liberal hype that you hear now:

    "We need a stronger military presence in the US!"

    Six weeks ago they would have had a heart attack if the military was deployed in the US.

    Good thing there is all of this stuff to complain about the President about. They don't have to stoop to:

    "Pres. Bush wears blue suits. What's the matter with grey suits? Grey suits are better."

  19. #59
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Don't you just love all the liberal hype that you hear now:

    "We need a stronger military presence in the US!"

    Six [changed for effect]years [/changed for effect] ago they would have had a heart attack if the military was deployed in the US.
    At that time it would have been the ultra-right that was up in arms though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    At that time it would have been the ultra-right that was up in arms though.
    Why? Please explain

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