1. #1
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    Default Federal response to New Orleans was 'faster' than after Hugo and Andrew

    Jack Kelly: No shame

    The federal response to Katrina was not as portrayed ]

    Sunday, September 11, 2005

    It is settled wisdom among journalists that the federal response to the devastation wrought by Hurricane Katrina was unconscionably slow.

    "Mr. Bush's performance last week will rank as one of the worst ever during a dire national emergency," wrote New York Times columnist Bob Herbert in a somewhat more strident expression of the conventional wisdom.

    But the conventional wisdom is the opposite of the truth.

    Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been mobilized six times for hurricane relief. He notes that:

    "The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

    For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 2002. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.

    Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.

    So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.

    I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting New Orleans breached. In the course of that week:

    More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops by Coast Guard helicopters.

    The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans.

    Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000 refugees.

    Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought:

    "We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering.

    "The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and impassable road network.

    "You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.

    "No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts above."

    "You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear somewhere," van Steenwyk said.

    Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.

    Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently), this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the weight of heavily laden trucks.

    And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states.

    Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it took four days before most people were evacuated from the Louisiana Superdome.

    The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven from Houston to New Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones arrived Wednesday evening. That seems pretty fast to me.

    A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?

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    Here's my favorite line:
    Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea...
    It is amazing to me how much power the press actually yields. Regardless of the facts, if Shepard Smith and Geraldo are standing there in tears imploring the rescue of these people and condemning the Pres. on the air, what that does to shape public opinion is often irreparable. I also truly believe that the left in this country is a bunch of wimps. They have more respect for a Mayor, who is responsible for completely obliterating his city, who gets in front of a camera, had a hissy fit and breaks down in tears than they do for a President who says he is going to do something, then does it, regardless of what some opinion poll says.

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    Excellent take. The lay people have no understanding of the complexities in just the logistics alone. If a local or state government fails the rest of the system suffers and the entire structure is damaged.

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    WHO NEEDS A CONGRESSIONAL HEARING ON THE TOPIC NOW? hopefully some of the white shirted folks in washington and those that like to speak one sided news look at our boards for the opinion of the grunts doing the work. maybe they will then realize how the world works outside of politics.
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    I read where it took FEMA a month to get to one of the Eastern Seaboard hurricane sights under Slick Willy, a little digging and I could find a link.

    with the explosion of 24/7 news networks, plus the internet, it is easy to instantly view a disaster scene. That does not mean the the ability to put resources in place has made an according leap.

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    Watched our esteemed (cough, cough, gag, gag) senator from Louisiana Democratic deva Queen Mary on FOX News yesterday talk about how terrible the response was having no idea about the duties and responsibilites outlined in that little piece of paper called the Constitution regarding state and federal responsibility. You should have seen her duck and run when they showed the parking lot full of buses and the host tried 3 friggin' times to ask her why her good friend the Dem mayor and Dem Governor didn't use them to move people out of the city.

    Intresting stat .. there were 11,000 Natioanl Guardsman either in NO or on the way to NO within 24 hopurs of being mobilzed and like 36,000 on the ground in the diaster area within 96 hours. Pretty damn impressive if you ask me.

    Sidenote: I witnessed a strong guard prense on the west side of the city when I showed up on Thursday. There were a lot of them involved in logistics and ground ops in my area.

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    Never mind.
    Last edited by KyleWickman; 09-12-2005 at 08:17 PM.
    This space for rent

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    Hmmm

    If you read this, and realize that the speed of response is faster than in the Florida Hurricanes of the last several years, then you would have to stop saying that FEMA is ruined now that it is under Homeland Security, if you were intellectually honest, that is......

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    the facts are what's going to shut the f-ing whiners up- you know the mayor not taking any heat, the gov -god forbid you criticize a woman - isn't taking any responsibility - I wonder if it's just the culture of people who depend on the government giving them everything that has created a lot of these problems.
    Last edited by hoseheadmaps; 09-13-2005 at 10:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoseheadmaps
    the facts are what's going to shut the f-ing whiners up- you know the mayor not taking any heat, the gov -god forbid you criticize a woman - isn't taking any responsibility - I wonder if it's just the culture of people who depend on the government giving them everything that has created a lot of these problems.
    BAM. you hit the nail on the head.

    the gov. is a woman. you can't criticize a woman for anything or you're sexist.

    and the mayor is a black. you can't criticize a black for anything or you're racist.
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    Not going to go into the legitimacy of the following article, because it seems sketchy at best. But just an interesting reply from a VERY left-wing website


    http://mediamatters.org/items/200509120009

    Jack Kelly column littered with Katrina falsehoods

    In a September 10 column, Toledo Blade and Pittsburgh Post-Gazette columnist Jack Kelly put forth numerous falsehoods and dubious statements in defense of the Bush administration's response to Hurricane Katrina. Kelly's column was quickly embraced by the conservative media: On September 12, it was posted on the Drudge Report and read aloud by Rush Limbaugh on his nationally syndicated radio program.

    Claim #1: Federal government couldn't have had "preposition[ed] assets" near New Orleans ready to immediately assist relief effort

    Kelly sought to defend the federal government's much-criticized response to the hurricane by citing an anonymous "former Air Force logistics officer" who claimed on the weblog Molten Thought that "[y]ou cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region." Kelly then adopted the point, declaring that "Navy ships sailing from Norfolk [Naval Shipyard in Virginia] can't be on the scene immediately."

    In fact, a Navy ship -- the USS Bataan -- was "preposition[ed]" off the Louisiana coast ready to aid Katrina victims but was deprived of needed guidance by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), as the Chicago Tribune reported on September 4.

    Moreover, the Bush administration did not send a hospital ship to New Orleans from Baltimore until four days after the levees were breached. Kelly wrote that the Army Corps of Engineers had by September 10 "begun pumping water out of New Orleans." But James Lee Witt, FEMA director in the Clinton administration, said that both efforts should have happened much sooner: "[I]n the 1990s, in planning for a New Orleans nightmare scenario, the federal government figured it would pre-deploy nearby ships with pumps to remove water from the below-sea-level city and have hospital ships nearby."

    Claim #2: Federal government "pretty much met standard time lines" in initial response to Katrina; responded with "unprecedented" speed in following days

    Kelly cited a whitewash of the federal government's delayed response by Florida Army National Guardsman Jason van Steenwyk, who claimed that the "federal government pretty much met its standard time lines" in responding to the crisis.

    According to the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) December 2004 National Response Plan (NRP), when responding to a catastrophic incident, the federal government should immediately begin emergency operations, even in the absence of a clear assessment of the situation. Because a "detailed and credible common operating picture may not be achievable for 24 to 48 hours (or longer) after the incident," the NRP's "Catastrophic Annex" states that "response activities must begin without the benefit of a detailed or complete situation and critical needs assessment."

    In fact, it wasn't until August 31, two days after the hurricane struck, that DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff declared Katrina an "Incident of National Significance," "triggering for the first time a coordinated federal response to states and localities overwhelmed by disaster," according to the Associated Press.

    Kelly also cited Steenwyk's claim that the federal response to Katrina "during the 72-96 hour" period was "unprecedented" and "faster" than all other recent storms, including Hurricane Andrew. But, as CJR Daily has noted, Miami Herald columnist Leonard Pitts Jr., whose house was damaged by Andrew, had a different recollection in a September 9 Herald op-ed:

    The day after I crawled from the wreckage of my home in 1992, the Federal Emergency Management Agency was there with water. Shortly thereafter came low-interest loans and other forms of help.

    By contrast, a woman who saw me conducting interviews in Bogalusa, La., seven days after Katrina struck marched up and demanded to know if I was, finally, the man from FEMA because her house was split in two and she and her husband and children and grandchildren were sleeping on the porch.

    Claim #3: "The levee broke Tuesday morning"

    Kelly falsely claimed that flooding first began in New Orleans on August 30, writing that "[t]he levee broke Tuesday morning." While it is unclear exactly which levee Kelly was referring to, "major levee breaks" first occurred on "the morning of Monday, Aug. 29," as The Wall Street Journal noted (subscription required) on September 12. The New Orleans office of the National Weather Service issued a flash flood warning at 8:14 a.m. Monday, saying 'a levee breach occurred along the industrial canal at Tennessee Street,'" according to the Journal.

    As Media Matters for America has documented, a weblog of the New Orleans Times-Picayune -- dated August 29, 2 p.m. CT -- noted that "City Hall confirmed a breach of the levee along the 17th Street Canal at Bellaire Drive, allowing water to spill into Lakeview." This initial report on the Times-Picayune weblog was followed throughout the afternoon and evening of August 29 by reports of other levee breaks and massive flooding.

    Claim #4: There were "roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans" when Katrina hit

    In claiming that there were "roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses" that New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin could have used to evacuate his city before Hurricane Katrina hit, Kelly repeated a falsehood that apparently originated in a September 6 column by Washington Times editor-in-chief Wesley Pruden. In fact, there were far fewer buses in New Orleans at the time of the hurricane than Kelly claimed.

    According to a September 5, 2003, article in the Times-Picayune, "The [Orleans Parish school] district owns 324 buses but 70 are broken down." In addition, a Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development profile of the New Orleans Regional Transit Authority (RTA), last updated May 5, notes that RTA owned 364 public buses, bringing the total of the city's public transit and school buses to fewer than 700 (assuming the fleet of school buses has not been dramatically increased since 2003) -- far fewer than the 2,000 Kelly claimed.

    A recent report by The New York Times suggests that the number of school buses in New Orleans has not dramatically increased. The Times reported on September 4 that Louisiana emergency planners believed it would take as many as 2,000 buses to evacuate the elderly and disabled residents of New Orleans in the event of a catastrophic hurricane like Katrina but that this was "far more than New Orleans possessed."

    Claim #5: National Guardsmen took time to arrive because governors of afflicted states didn't request them fast enough

    Kelly erroneously suggested that another reason the federal relief effort was delayed was because "[National] Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states."

    In fact, as Media Matters has noted, according to Department of Defense officials, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco and Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour had requested additional Guard personnel before the storm hit. And, as the Associated Press reported on September 3, Blanco accepted an offer for additional troops from New Mexico the day before the hurricane hit, but that help was delayed by paperwork needed from Washington.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre08
    BAM. you hit the nail on the head.

    the gov. is a woman. you can't criticize a woman for anything or you're sexist.

    and the mayor is a black. you can't criticize a black for anything or you're racist.
    It is the fact that you felt a need to state that he is black that makes you Racist. Just calling him an idiot would have sufficed.
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    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    It is the fact that you felt a need to state that he is black that makes you Racist. Just calling him an idiot would have sufficed.
    I disagree. I think if he were white the media would be all over his ***.

    it would be racist if I said he failed to badly BECAUSE he was black, because that would be attacking him because of his race. But I'm saying that he failed because he's an incompitant fool, and the media is ignoring it because he's black.
    Last edited by Spectre08; 09-13-2005 at 03:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre08
    I disagree. I think if he were white the media would be all over his ***.
    That gives you no reson to point out that he is black, except for your underlieing racist attitude taht you are in denial about.

    And the media has torn him up over the last week, must be your selective hearing that you missed it. Even Katie Curick grilled him hard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    That gives you no reson to point out that he is black, except for your underlieing racist attitude taht you are in denial about.

    And the media has torn him up over the last week, must be your selective hearing that you missed it. Even Katie Curick grilled him hard.
    he is FINALLY just starting to get the attention that he deserves. But it's only been in the last 2 days that they've been focusing on him and the gov, and ONLY because Brown is gone, so he's not in a position to critizes or talk to anymore. They have to turn to somebody, so they're finally figureing out that the Mayor dropped the ball.

    and I still don't see how pointing out that he's black is racist. He is black last time I checked. And the media did give him a free pass for the first 2 weeks after the hurricane because of that. You CAN'T criticize a black man publicly or else you are labeled as a racist and a bigot. That is FACT. It happens time and time again. A black man screws up, makes the media, and instantly the NAACP, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Luis Farakahn are everywhere saying how everybody is racist, and the white man is holding the black man down so they have to be held to a different standard, bla bla bla same old crap new person.

    The same things goes for women, but to a lesser extent because the women's activism groups are far less vocal and obnoxious.


    edit: I also said that Gov. Blanco wasn't getting grilled like she should because she's a woman. Does that make me a sexist aswell?
    Last edited by Spectre08; 09-13-2005 at 03:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre08
    he is FINALLY just starting to get the attention that he deserves. But it's only been in the last 2 days that they've been focusing on him and the gov, and ONLY because Brown is gone, so he's not in a position to critizes or talk to anymore. They have to turn to somebody, so they're finally figureing out that the Mayor dropped the ball.

    and I still don't see how pointing out that he's black is racist. He is black last time I checked. And the media did give him a free pass for the first 2 weeks after the hurricane because of that. You CAN'T criticize a black man publicly or else you are labeled as a racist and a bigot. That is FACT. It happens time and time again. A black man screws up, makes the media, and instantly the NAACP, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Luis Farakahn are everywhere saying how everybody is racist, and the white man is holding the black man down so they have to be held to a different standard, bla bla bla same old crap new person.

    The same things goes for women, but to a lesser extent because the women's activism groups are far less vocal and obnoxious.
    The fact that you are perpetuating that it is a black thing shows how you view race in America. Otherwise you would have pointed out that he was a failure as a mayor, not a failure as a black mayor.

    And the criticism has been going on about him since he started to complain while not having done anything himself.

    And guess what from 1492 until 1865 the white man seriously held the black man down, and continued to do so openly and legally until the late 1960's. You can see the results of that legacy in the 9th ward of New Orleans. That is not "liberal whining", that is historical fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    The fact that you are perpetuating that it is a black thing shows how you view race in America. Otherwise you would have pointed out that he was a failure as a mayor, not a failure as a black mayor.

    And the criticism has been going on about him since he started to complain while not having done anything himself.

    And guess what from 1492 until 1865 the white man seriously held the black man down, and continued to do so openly and legally until the late 1960's. You can see the results of that legacy in the 9th ward of New Orleans. That is not "liberal whining", that is historical fact.

    They wern't ignoring him because he was a mayor though. They were ignoring him BECAUSE HE IS BLACK. He is a failure as a mayor, and that has NOTHING to do with his race or gender. I am not criticising him here, I am criticising the media for their anti-Bush, anti-republican zeal.

    and this doesn't have **** to do with slavery, so don't even bring that **** in here. Slavery ended over 100 years ago, move ON. These people wern't poor and helpless because they were black, what a load of crap. Do people decide to get pregnate at 14, or drop out of high school because they're black? I don't think so.

    there is a DAMN simple solution to poverty in this country and is has nothing to do with race, gender, or anything else.

    step 1: graduate high school
    step 2: don't have a baby until your married
    step 3: don't get married until you're 20
    step 4: don't have children you can't afford! Condoms and oral contraceptives are a hell of alot cheaper than diapers
    When I get to hell
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    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre08
    They wern't ignoring him because he was a mayor though. They were ignoring him BECAUSE HE IS BLACK. He is a failure as a mayor, and that has NOTHING to do with his race or gender. I am not criticising him here, I am criticising the media for their anti-Bush, anti-republican zeal.

    and this doesn't have **** to do with slavery, so don't even bring that **** in here. Slavery ended over 100 years ago, move ON. These people wern't poor and helpless because they were black, what a load of crap. Do people decide to get pregnate at 14, or drop out of high school because they're black? I don't think so.

    there is a DAMN simple solution to poverty in this country and is has nothing to do with race, gender, or anything else.

    step 1: graduate high school
    step 2: don't have a baby until your married
    step 3: don't get married until you're 20
    step 4: don't have children you can't afford! Condoms and oral contraceptives are a hell of alot cheaper than diapers
    So are you going to give credit to George Will there or are you going to show that you are a plagerizer as well as being ignorent of your racism?

    And George's solution is not as simple as it seems. You know why most of the kids who go to college and graduate do? It is because their parents went before them and graduated, there is a perpetualness to it that was not allowed for most black until 35 years ago. you expect things to beable to be changed in one generation of tough love, that if applied to a suburban family folks would be up in arms about because it infinges on their personal freedoms? You have a lot of learning to do kid.
    Last edited by DennisTheMenace; 09-13-2005 at 04:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    So are you going to give credit to George Will there or are you going to show that you are a plagerizer as well as being ignorent of your racism?

    And George's solution is not as simple as it seems. You know why most of the kids who go to college and graduate do? It is because their parents went before them and graduated, there is a perpetualness to it that was not allowed for most black until 35 years ago. you expect things to beable to be changed in one generation of tough love, that if applied to a suburban family folks would be up in arms about because it infinges on their personal freedoms? You have a lot of learning to do kid.
    college isnt' everything, and obviously everybody can't go to college. but EVERYBODY can graduate high school. High school is free, and pretty damn easy.

    I don't know who George Will is, but I plagerized the first 3 from another forum. I think the 4th one, which I added, is the most important.

    and don't try to tell me about poverty and **** like that. Neither of my parents went to college. I was born in the SLUMS of San Antonio. The worst part of San Antonio you can imagine being born in. But my parents worked their way up to the suburban family life we now enjoy. And how? Because my dad worked, you see that, WORKED, his *** off to provide for us and get us out of that. That's a word you don't hear to often when people talk about poverty, becuase there are alot of people out there who WON'T work, but insist on bringing 5 kids into a household with an income of less than $500 a month ANYWAYS.

    and I by no means even WANT every person in this country to go to college. How awful would that be? You'd have to have a college degree to get hired as a cashier at Wal-Mart, and a masters degree to be a manager, then college becomes as meaningless as high school is now.

    I didn't graduate college, I probably never will. I went for a year and then had to leave because I COULDN'T AFFORD IT. Meanwhile there were blacks and mexicans in my dorm who spent all day smoking pot and scored half what I did on the SAT, but had full scholarships. hmmm, all men are created equal huh? Bull****.
    When I get to hell
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre08
    college isnt' everything, and obviously everybody can't go to college. but EVERYBODY can graduate high school. High school is free, and pretty damn easy.

    I don't know who George Will is, but I plagerized the first 3 from another forum. I think the 4th one, which I added, is the most important.

    and don't try to tell me about poverty and **** like that. Neither of my parents went to college. I was born in the SLUMS of San Antonio. The worst part of San Antonio you can imagine being born in. But my parents worked their way up to the suburban family life we now enjoy. And how? Because my dad worked, you see that, WORKED, his *** off to provide for us and get us out of that. That's a word you don't hear to often when people talk about poverty, becuase there are alot of people out there who WON'T work, but insist on bringing 5 kids into a household with an income of less than $500 a month ANYWAYS.

    and I by no means even WANT every person in this country to go to college. How awful would that be? You'd have to have a college degree to get hired as a cashier at Wal-Mart, and a masters degree to be a manager, then college becomes as meaningless as high school is now.

    I didn't graduate college, I probably never will. I went for a year and then had to leave because I COULDN'T AFFORD IT. Meanwhile there were blacks and mexicans in my dorm who spent all day smoking pot and scored half what I did on the SAT, but had full scholarships. hmmm, all men are created equal huh? Bull****.
    Guess what little man, replace college with H.S. or holding off to marrage to have kids or holding off on marrage until you are established. And there were plenty of kids that only had good SAT's because they had good parents that paid through the nose for Kaplan classes for the kids and better schools, who then went of to school and "spent all day smoking pot". Did not matter the race of the kids. The fact of the matter is that scholarships to minorities are based on potential, not just needs, the courts have stated that potential must be the primary factor when race is involved and not just need. If you look at the real statistics, minorities on scholarships have about a fifty percent BETTER rate of graduation then those students in the general population. So take your racist and wrong attitudes elsewhere, because they don't belong in the fireservice and they definately don't belong in the U.S. Military.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Guess what little man, replace college with H.S. or holding off to marrage to have kids or holding off on marrage until you are established. And there were plenty of kids that only had good SAT's because they had good parents that paid through the nose for Kaplan classes for the kids and better schools, who then went of to school and "spent all day smoking pot". Did not matter the race of the kids. The fact of the matter is that scholarships to minorities are based on potential, not just needs, the courts have stated that potential must be the primary factor when race is involved and not just need. If you look at the real statistics, minorities on scholarships have about a fifty percent BETTER rate of graduation then those students in the general population. So take your racist and wrong attitudes elsewhere, because they don't belong in the fireservice and they definately don't belong in the U.S. Military.

    What a bull**** arguement. I went to public school my entire life, and high school and junior high school in ARKANSAS, and I never got any special classes or anything. And I still scored 30 on my ACT and over 1300 on my SAT. But because my parents were white, and made more than $40,000 the year I applied for college, the U.S. Government demed that they would somehow be able to fork up $13,000 a year for my education. $13,000. More than 1/4 of their income.

    and ALL people on scholarships have a better rate of graduation than those in general population, becuase ALOT of us, can't graduate because we simply can't afford to be there.

    and I don't think that race should EVER be considered in ANYTHING. Especially scholarships. our country is so *** backwards. We talk about equality and trying to be fair, but yet we stack the deck AGAINST hard working middle class white people. I had a black financial aid counselor tell me straight to my face that BECAUSE I WAS WHITE, there was nothing she could do to help me. Now, replace the "white" with "black" and I would have cause for a lawsuit. So why don't I? Oh yeah. Becuase the "black man" has been "held down" so we have an obligation to give them a helping hand and bend over backwards to make them happy.

    What exactly is "fair" about that? Tell me. Please.

    My high school was 80% African American, and 15% Mexican. I have nothing against either race by any means. I played soccer for 4 years along side the Mexicans and was friends with every one of them. I ran the hall with as many black friends as I had white friends. But you know what? The guy in my graduating class who was 1 rank below me, I graduated #23 out of 300, got a full scholarship to a private school. A scholarship that was specificly earmarked for minorities. What is "fair" about that?

    I'm not racist by any means. I just think that EVERYBODY should be held to the SAME standards and given the SAME opportunies. And that one person should not be given extra help because of the color of their skin. And the problem with this country is that NOW, that is racist. It's racist to say that black people SHOULDN'T get special benifits for being black.

    edit: on yeah. and that kid who got the minority scholarship, his parents are both doctors and he lives in a million dollar house in the nicest neighborhood in Little Rock.
    Last edited by Spectre08; 09-13-2005 at 05:05 PM.
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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    If you had kept up good grades there would have been money for you, particularly with a family income of just $40K, if you could not find money, either you are lieing about your scores or your grades were in the toilet, or you just did not look hard enough, you could deffinately get student loans with the situation you discribed.

    As for your racist undertones, I think that your personal need to start up this thread shows the type of race baiter that you are.

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=73908
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    If you had kept up good grades there would have been money for you, particularly with a family income of just $40K, if you could not find money, either you are lieing about your scores or your grades were in the toilet, or you just did not look hard enough, you could deffinately get student loans with the situation you discribed.

    As for your racist undertones, I think that your personal need to start up this thread shows the type of race baiter that you are.

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=73908

    haha. I graduated with a 3.8 thank you very much. My grades were fine. I got two $1000 scholarships for my grades. That's $2000 a year out of the $12,000 tuition. And I didn't wanna get loans because I don't have the dying urge to bury myself in debt before I'm 20.

    edit: and my thread about farrakhan has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with making ignorant statements just to make people mad. If micheal moore had said that I'd have posted a thread entitled "that wacky fatass"
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre08
    haha. I graduated with a 3.8 thank you very much. My grades were fine. I got two $1000 scholarships for my grades. That's $2000 a year out of the $12,000 tuition. And I didn't wanna get loans because I don't have the dying urge to bury myself in debt before I'm 20.
    You are not willing to take on a little bit of debt for your education? Got to appriciate those values.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    You are not willing to take on a little bit of debt for your education? Got to appriciate those values.
    I was willing to take on a bit of debt. I'm $8000 in debt after 1 year. What I'm not willing to do is take on over $40,000 in debt. My college education can wait until I can afford it.
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

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