View Poll Results: Do you agree with this ruling

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  1. #1
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    Default Federal Judge Declares Pledge Of Allegiance Unconstitutional

    A federal judge in San Francisco ruled Wednesday it is unconstitutional for public school children to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

    U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."

    Karlton said he's bound by precedent set by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, which ruled in 2001 that it was unconstitutional for the Pledge to be recited in public schools.

    The Supreme Court threw out that case, ruling that Sacramento atheist Michael Newdow had no standing to bring the legal action.

    Newdow objected to the words "under God" in the pledge.

    Newdow brought the second case to the federal court -- this time, representing unidentified parents and their children.

    Wednesday's decision sets up another constitutional showdown over the pledge.
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    When I heard this on the news, I said to myself, "This sounds like it came out of San Francisco". Bingo.

    Methinks this will last just long enough to get into the U. S. Supreme Court.

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    I guess they should remove that also. If I remember no one makes you say it in school and you have an option to stand up, not salute and not say a word so this law is rediculous.
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    Luckly it only effects a very small geographical portion of the country, and best of all it does not effect me. But it is an arguement that is legitimate to make and to be debated, hopefully it will get to the supreme court again where it will be judged up or down on its merits so that it can be put to rest rather then on a techinicallity like it was the last go round.
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    Having the right to 'protest' this is one of the things that makes our country great, but on the other hand it annoys the crap out of me. There are so many things in this country that have been around forever and are part of the founding of this country and somebody makes some personal crusade to change it for themselves. Not to mention there are so many serious things to worry about like people dying daily in the southeast and in Iraq but I'm offended by the word god in a pledge that I can stand there and say nothing for. Heck the last I checked you could probably even sit down with your head on the desk if you so chose. So my kid is offended that his pledge is unconstitutional and he feels cheated that he can't recite it every morning at school. Can I file a counter suit?????

    Ok, so the atheist guy... fine he believes in no god! But its my interpretation that in the Pledge its the generic god whoever that may be in your personal life.

    I think I'm going to go shred all my cash now and maybe melt down my coins because they say god on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    When I heard this on the news, I said to myself, "This sounds like it came out of San Francisco". Bingo.

    Methinks this will last just long enough to get into the U. S. Supreme Court.

    Please don't hold this against me George.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFTrainer
    Having the right to 'protest' this is one of the things that makes our country great, but on the other hand it annoys the crap out of me. There are so many things in this country that have been around forever and are part of the founding of this country and somebody makes some personal crusade to change it for themselves. Not to mention there are so many serious things to worry about like people dying daily in the southeast and in Iraq but I'm offended by the word god in a pledge that I can stand there and say nothing for. Heck the last I checked you could probably even sit down with your head on the desk if you so chose. So my kid is offended that his pledge is unconstitutional and he feels cheated that he can't recite it every morning at school. Can I file a counter suit?????

    Ok, so the atheist guy... fine he believes in no god! But its my interpretation that in the Pledge its the generic god whoever that may be in your personal life.

    I think I'm going to go shred all my cash now and maybe melt down my coins because they say god on them.
    But "In God We Trust" was not put on money until the 20th Century, it was not there anytime near the founding of our Great Nation.

    This is not about being offended or not. This is ONLY about deciding if the word "God" suggests that government is promoting any type of religon. It will be up to the Supremes to eventually decide that.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    But "In God We Trust" was not put on money until the 20th Century, it was not there anytime near the founding of our Great Nation.

    This is not about being offended or not. This is ONLY about deciding if the word "God" suggests that government is promoting any type of religon. It will be up to the Supremes to eventually decide that.

    True... but I think you know what I meant!

    U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."
    What about my someone else's kids right to free speech to recite the pledge as written??? Is that not important?

    Thank god I am not a supreme court justice or a judge anywhere because there are so many times I would want to say "What exactly were you thinking?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFTrainer
    True... but I think you know what I meant!



    What about my someone else's kids right to free speech to recite the pledge as written??? Is that not important?

    Thank god I am not a supreme court justice or a judge anywhere because there are so many times I would want to say "What exactly were you thinking?"
    The Supreme Court has said that kids can't be punished for praying on their own, so if your kid wants to stand up and say the Pledge in class, he/she can be punished for interupting the teacher, but not for saying it on their own. The arguement is if it is fitting for a state/government run school to make the kids say it, that could be intimidation if the Court rules that the mear mention of God is the advancement of religion by the state.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  10. #10
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    *shakes head slowly*

    Our country was built on the words of our fore-fathers, I remember reciting their words back in kindergarden, up until I reached the highschool.

    I pledge Allegiance to the flag,
    Of the United States of America,
    and to the Republic for which it stands,
    ONE NATION UNDER GOD, indivisable,
    with liberty, and justice, for all.

    I remember singing the national anthem each morning also. Next thing we know, the national anthem will be unconstitutional because some screwed up mother****er will claim that we did the wrong thing, and that it discriminates against the "Freedom fighters" or whatever they want to call themselves now.

    Don't like it? Get the hell out of the USA.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
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  11. #11
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    U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."
    Hmmm. Let the kids who don't want to recite it stay silent. Or they can just silence themselves when it comes to that part.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Res343cue
    *shakes head slowly*

    Our country was built on the words of our fore-fathers, I remember reciting their words back in kindergarden, up until I reached the highschool.

    I pledge Allegiance to the flag,
    Of the United States of America,
    and to the Republic for which it stands,
    ONE NATION UNDER GOD, indivisable,
    with liberty, and justice, for all.

    I remember singing the national anthem each morning also. Next thing we know, the national anthem will be unconstitutional because some screwed up mother****er will claim that we did the wrong thing, and that it discriminates against the "Freedom fighters" or whatever they want to call themselves now.

    Don't like it? Get the hell out of the USA.
    That was added in the 1950's! long past the time that our Founding Fathers had turned to dust and/or found their way past St. Peter. This is not a question of offending anyone, it is a question of the role the state has in religion, and if God makes a religion. If you are not up for debate about fundemental issues like this, maybe it is you that should get out of the USofA.

    I disagree with this suit, and the ruling, but I also see that it comes from the exact spirit that the Founding Fathers intended with the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the First Amendment!
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    That was added in the 1950's! long past the time that our Founding Fathers had turned to dust and/or found their way past St. Peter. This is not a question of offending anyone, it is a question of the role the state has in religion, and if God makes a religion. If you are not up for debate about fundemental issues like this, maybe it is you that should get out of the USofA.

    I disagree with this suit, and the ruling, but I also see that it comes from the exact spirit that the Founding Fathers intended with the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the First Amendment!
    I'm all for the debate... I wouldn't have posted otherwise. They have their right to bring it to the courts, and have it ruled upon. But sometimes it just goes a little too far.

    It wasn't a problem in the 1940s (Google it. Found 40s and 50s. Going with the earlier) when it was added. What's the problem now? Someone got their knickers in a bunch?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Res343cue
    I'm all for the debate... I wouldn't have posted otherwise. They have their right to bring it to the courts, and have it ruled upon. But sometimes it just goes a little too far.

    It wasn't a problem in the 1940s (Google it. Found 40s and 50s. Going with the earlier) when it was added. What's the problem now? Someone got their knickers in a bunch?
    It was added in 1954. The problem is when you try and say that it was the idea of our fore-fathers. My grandparents did not say it at all and my parents were a year away from graduateing, so they only said it for a year if that. We survived the first 178 years without it, why do you think the world will fall apart now if it is put back to its original form?
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    President Eisenhower added it under pressure from the Knights of Columbus, the gentleman who wrote the pledge was very offended that the phrase "under god" was added, he wrote it for the boy scouts i believe, and himself was a former minister. he wanted a generic pledge to the USA. if i got the history wrong forgive me but i do know it happened under the Eisenhower administration which was from 1952 to 1960.
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    I guess because of the many court rulings over the years, the question arises of: exactly what are you pledging allegiance to? The flag, of course, but what does the "flag" represent?
    The courts have broadened the views so widely, that many believe that the flag represents our country, freedom-more specifically, religious freedom-and on the other hand has allowed for the flag to be desecrated, in essence saying that it is no more than kindling to those who don't believe in any of it.
    They say, that, if we don't go to war to defend the flag, we can go to jail, but turns right around and rules that it's OK to burn it as a show of protest your opposition to the war. Tell me that isn't goofy.
    If it is so offensive, then let's throw the whole thing out, agree to a mantra that we won't drive a car loaded with explosives into a crowded street and set it off. In other words: "I'll be nice to anyone living in this country; just leave me alone"!
    Christ; it's getting to the point where we won't be able to celebrate Christmas!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefReason
    Christ; it's getting to the point where we won't be able to celebrate Christmas!
    CR
    Actually CR, there are places of business, schools, etc., that won't allow a person to say "Merry Christmas" because of the religious inference, they accept and use "Happy Holidays".

    I think it's ridiculous myself, but that's the way our world is turning.
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    Personally I think some people take this too far, however, as stated that is what makes this country so great. Having the right to do this, and the freedom of religion is why many have fought for that flag.
    I wish the people who don't want to say it would just simply not say it, and leave the courts alone. If they take the words out of the pledge, it won't hurt my feelings, and I will still feel like I'm pledging allegiance to my country and its flag.
    There goes the neighborhood.

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    Its amazing how far some people will go for attention. No one is required to say the pledge. Its not mandatory. No one made his little girl do it. I dont know why he is saving its unconstitutional. At one time though, I believe it was. There were seveal supreme court cases regarding it, I think in like 1941. Some religous groups will not recite the pledge because of the first line: I pledge allegience to the flag, hence saying that you are pledging yourself to that nation, and not to god.

    He has no point because the pledge is not required. If it was required, I would say that he would have a valid point.

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    Our country was built on the words of our fore-fathers
    Oh PLEEEEAAASEEE.

    There must have been more than 4 blokes on the Mayflower.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Luckly it only effects a very small geographical portion of the country.

    SanFransisco is NOT part of this country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi
    Oh PLEEEEAAASEEE.

    There must have been more than 4 blokes on the Mayflower.
    WAY TA GO KIWI!!!

    **I have never yet met an athiest once the bombs (or the sky) start falling.**
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    San Francisco is the capital of the Island of Misfit Toys.

    BTW, the best part about this "atheist guy" is:

    1. His daughter is a Christian
    2. His daughter does not live with him or go to school near where he lives
    3. his daughter was not offended by the Pledge

    (According to Fox News)

    This guy is the 21st Century answer to Madeline Murray O'Hare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi
    Oh PLEEEEAAASEEE.

    There must have been more than 4 blokes on the Mayflower.
    All thoughs guys that came on the Mayflower were illegals that snuck over here without papers or permission, we should deport them and all of their surviving kin!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHR1985

    He has no point because the pledge is not required. If it was required, I would say that he would have a valid point.
    Actually, unfortunately many school districts in your republic of Texas do require that it be recited each morning in every classroom. So it is required, sometimes.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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