1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default We're going to give these people $200 Billion?

    KATRINA'S AFTERMATH
    Louisiana Officials Indicted Before Katrina Hit
    Federal audits found dubious expenditures by the state's emergency preparedness agency, which will administer FEMA hurricane aid.

    By Ken Silverstein and Josh Meyer, Times Staff Writers
    WASHINGTON Senior officials in Louisiana's emergency planning agency already were awaiting trial over allegations stemming from a federal investigation into waste, mismanagement and missing funds when Hurricane Katrina struck.

    And federal auditors are still trying to track as much as $60 million in unaccounted for funds that were funneled to the state from the Federal Emergency Management Agency dating back to 1998.
    In March, FEMA demanded that Louisiana repay $30.4 million to the federal government.

    The problems are particularly worrisome, federal officials said, because they involve the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness, the agency that will administer much of the billions in federal aid anticipated for victims of Katrina.

    Earlier this week, federal Homeland Security officials announced they would send 30 investigators and auditors to the Gulf Coast to ensure relief funds were properly spent.

    Details of the ongoing criminal investigations come from two reports by the inspector general's office in the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, which oversees FEMA, as well as in state audits, and interviews this week with federal and state officials.

    The reports were prepared by the federal agency's field office in Denton, Texas, and cover 1998 to 2003. Improper expenditures previously identified by auditors include a parka, a briefcase and a trip to Germany.

    Much of the FEMA money that was unaccounted for was sent to Louisiana under the Hazard Mitigation Grant program, intended to help states retrofit property and improve flood control facilities, for example.

    The $30.4 million FEMA is demanding back was money paid into that program and others, including a program to buy out flood-prone homeowners. As much as $30 million in additional unaccounted for spending also is under review in audits that have not yet been released, according to a FEMA official.

    One 2003 federal investigation of allegedly misspent funds in Ouachita Parish, a district in northern Louisiana, grew into a probe that sprawled into more than 20 other parishes.

    Mark Smith, a spokesman for the Louisiana emergency office, said the agency had responded to calls for reform, and that "we now have the policy and personnel in place to ensure that past problems aren't repeated."

    He said earlier problems were largely administrative mistakes, not due to corruption.

    But federal officials disagreed. They said FEMA for years expressed concerns over patterns of improper management and lax oversight throughout the state agency, and said most problems had not been corrected.

    They point to criminal indictments of three state workers as evidence the problem was more than management missteps. Two other state emergency officials also were identified in court documents as unindicted co-conspirators.

    "The charges were made after some very extensive reviews by FEMA investigators and other authorities, who identified issues they felt were of the severity and magnitude to refer them to the U.S. attorney's office," said David Passey, the spokesman for FEMA's regional office in Texas.

    Passey, while acknowledging that the state had made some administrative changes, said it had not completed the kind of overhaul FEMA said was needed.

    "It concerns us a lot. We are devoted to the mission of helping people prepare for, prevent and recover from disasters and we want these federal funds this taxpayer money to be spent and used well and in accordance with the rules," he said.

    Keith Ashdown of Taxpayers for Common Sense, a Washington watchdog group, said recent Louisiana history showed that FEMA "money earmarked for saving lives and homes'' was instead squandered in "a cesspool of wasteful spending."

    Louisiana's emergency office receives money directly from FEMA. It passes on much of the funding to local governments that apply for assistance.

    The audit reports said state operating procedures increased the likelihood of fraud and corruption going undetected.

    For instance, a Nov. 30, 2004, report by Tonda L. Hadley, a director in the Denton field office, examined $40.5 million sent to the Louisiana agency, mostly for the Hazard Mitigation program. The report found that the state's emergency office did not have receipts to account for 97% of the $15.4 million it had awarded to subcontractors on 19 major projects.

    The report also said the Louisiana agency had misspent $617,787 between May 2000 and September 2003.

    Questionable expenditures identified by the inspector general included $2,400 for sod installation, several thousand dollars for a trip to Germany by the deputy director, $1,071 for curtains, and $595 for an L.L. Bean parka and briefcase. The inspector general also challenged unspecified spending for camera equipment, professional dues and a 2002 Ford Crown Victoria.

    The day before the report was issued, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Western District of Louisiana obtained an indictment against Michael L. Brown, deputy director of the Louisiana office of emergency preparedness. (Brown is no relation to former FEMA director Michael D. Brown who resigned this week.) Louisiana's deputy director oversaw the state's Hazard Mitigation program.

    Brown was charged with conspiring to obstruct the inspector general's investigation and for making a false statement to a federal investigator.

    Michael C. Appe, another senior state agency official, also was charged with obstructing the audit. Months earlier, Appe had been appointed as head of a "surge team" to review projects funded with FEMA money. The team's mission was to help spot abuses.

    Both Appe and Brown hold the rank of colonel for their roles in overseeing elements of the state National Guard.

    Appe was arrested in Baton Rouge last November, as was Daniel J. Falanga, the state agency's flood-mitigation officer. Falanga was accused of committing perjury before a grand jury investigating misuse of FEMA funds.

    All three men have pleaded not guilty to the charges and deny wrongdoing, according to their lawyers. Trial dates remain uncertain because the hurricane disrupted court schedules.

    According to the indictment, Brown and Appe conspired in 2000 to use $175,000 in FEMA funds to cover a shortfall in a related agency's budget. Later, when the inspector general began investigating the agency's use of FEMA money, the two men conspired to create a fake, backdated memo to cover up the earlier diversion of funds, the indictment says.

    State agency spokesman Smith said Brown had traveled to Germany, but to attend a conference. He declined to answer questions about alleged improper spending, citing the pending trial. Smith said at the time, state officials believed the trip to Germany was a proper expenditure.

    Brown's lawyer, Elton Richey, said his client tried to spend federal disaster funds wisely despite job turnover and confusion between state agency officials and FEMA overseers. He said FEMA kept changing the rules.

    Marty Stroud, a lawyer who represents Appe and Falanga, said, "There are no charges that anyone in this case enriched himself at the expense of a federal program."

    Hadley, of the inspector general's office, issued a second report on Feb. 25, 2005, which tracked state spending of FEMA money to pay for "extraordinary costs," a special category used for the administration of disaster assistance programs. It said the agency had improperly spent $247,166 for items such as a car, computers, membership dues and travel to seminars.

    In addition to alleged misspending reported in the two audits, FEMA has asked for the return of $10.7 million allocated to a program for buying property in high-risk flood areas. Most of that money was passed on to local communities to determine which property owners would benefit.

    FEMA alleged the Louisiana agency had not properly monitored expenditures, and failed to ensure that properties receiving the funds were eligible.

    About $2.8 million of the refund sought by FEMA went to consultant fees. Most of that money went to Aegis Innovative Systems, a Baton Rouge firm hired by many parishes to administer the flood buyout program. Aegis owners include Mark Howard, a former official at the Louisiana agency.

    State Sen. Reggie Dupre said it appeared that parishes employing Aegis were especially successful in winning money from the state emergency preparedness agency.

    "It smells like a horrible brother-in-law deal to me, " he said in a phone interview.

    An Aegis attorney did not respond to a request for comment.


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ChiefReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Illinois-where pertnear is close enough!
    Posts
    5,636

    Default

    Giving out credit cards with a $250,000 limit was certainly a good way to start.
    When documentation and accountability aren't inherent to the process, corruption and misappropriations of funds is a given.
    A very tight process needs to be in place.
    I don't care who "inconvenient" it is.
    Sweetheart deals costs money.
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber
    E229Lt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    2,987

    Default

    Perhaps when Bush was asked for the $520M to strengthen all the levees and he appropriated $3M he thought he had saved a bundle.

    So George, what is $200B minus $520M?

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by E229Lt
    Perhaps when Bush was asked for the $520M to strengthen all the levees and he appropriated $3M he thought he had saved a bundle.

    So George, what is $200B minus $520M?
    These levees are owned by independent tax districts. Why disn't they collect the tax money to take care of them?

    You are getting sucked into one of the great urban myths of this disaster.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Spectre08's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Goodfellow AFB, Tx
    Posts
    415

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by E229Lt
    Perhaps when Bush was asked for the $520M to strengthen all the levees and he appropriated $3M he thought he had saved a bundle.

    So George, what is $200B minus $520M?
    exactly. because everybody knows you can build a brand new massive system of levees in 3 years if you just throw enough money at it
    When I get to hell
    The devil he will say
    "How'd you put my fires out?
    In just one day?"
    I lift my hose up higher and higher
    that's how I do it, I'm a firefighter!

  6. #6
    Protective Economist
    Jonathan Bastian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    966

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by E229Lt
    Perhaps when Bush was asked for the $520M to strengthen all the levees and he appropriated $3M he thought he had saved a bundle.

    So George, what is $200B minus $520M?
    Why blame the President? CONGRESS is responsible for ALL government spending...the Constitution requires all spending bills to originate in the House. Congress authorizes and appropriates funds...the President just presents a proposal.
    My comments are sometimes educated, sometimes informed and sometimes just blowing smoke...but they are always mine and mine alone and do not reflect upon anyone else (especially my employer).

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    2,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by E229Lt
    Perhaps when Bush was asked for the $520M to strengthen all the levees and he appropriated $3M he thought he had saved a bundle.

    So George, what is $200B minus $520M?
    Your team lost. Get over it already. Did President bush custom order the storm, too?

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,043

    Default

    I can't help but wonder where are all the people who pound the FIRE Act Grant program with it's a local issue not federal, yet all the blame here is on the Feds and Bush in particular.

    The problems are nothing new, failure to upgrade the dikes, failure to properly plan and then implement evacuation and relocation, failure by the city to ask for help from the state in advance, failure by the state to be prepared to act quickly and decisively, failure by the state to request federal assistance and troops in a timely manner.

    To me the biggest failing of this whole disaster was the idea of relocating people to the Super Dome and convention center with NO SUPPLIES!! No food, no water, no medical staff or supplies. What did the planners expect would happen with several thousand tired, hungry, thirsty and angry people crammed into those buildings? Holding of hands and singing religious songs?

    There is plenty of blame to go around....

    FyredUp

  9. #9
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Southeast Iowa
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Gee, how much money was appropriated by the federal government after 9/11? To New York, Washington DC, to establish Homeland Security? Weren't those local issues?

    But oh wait....that was okay because 343 firefighters died in that disaster.

    Come down out of your ivory tower in NJ George.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,043

    Default

    parafire...

    If you can't see the difference between a terrorist attack and a natural disaster I feel sorry for you.

    The terrorsit attack was a surprise attack, the hurricane was known about for days in advance and people chose not to do what was necessary, including local and state government, to prepare.

    As painful as it is for me to say this, you attack on George is unwarranted. And your snide comment about the 343 Brothers killed in New York is dispicable, incase you forgot there were civilian casualties in New York also...almost 3000.

    FyredUp

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    NW Indiana
    Posts
    1,419

    Default

    April 11, 1965. Prior to (and on) that date, many people in northern Indiana paid little heed to tornado sirens. Very little ever resulted from the warnings so why bother going to the basement or leaving the mobile home?

    April 11, 1965. In and aroud Elkhart County, IN, more than 55 people were killed, many because of complaceny. Our immediate family lost 5 homes. My grandfather later succumbed to a combination of injuries to body and a broken spirit.

    April 11, 1965. In the 40 years since that date, people in this area treat the storm warning system differently. Only now are we beginning to see large numbers of people let their guard down.

    April 11, 1965. An expensive lesson learned. Not much could have been done about the property lost, but many of those lives could have been spared. Individuals learn from disaster. Communities learn from disaster. The cost is high, and the pain is great. Palm Sunday of '65 taught a hard lesson to a small region. Hopefully, Katrina will encourage our entire nation to better prepare to take care of themselves and their families.

    Guys, there is no group involved in Katrina that is 100% right. There is no group that is 100% wrong. Mistakes were made, as were some great moves. Move forward, taking both the positive and negative along for a better future.
    earl

  12. #12
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Southeast Iowa
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp
    parafire...

    If you can't see the difference between a terrorist attack and a natural disaster I feel sorry for you.

    The terrorsit attack was a surprise attack, the hurricane was known about for days in advance and people chose not to do what was necessary, including local and state government, to prepare.

    As painful as it is for me to say this, you attack on George is unwarranted. And your snide comment about the 343 Brothers killed in New York is dispicable, incase you forgot there were civilian casualties in New York also...almost 3000.

    FyredUp

    You're right...9/11 was a terrorist attack without warning (though some would disagree on the "no warning" argument) But, everyone wants to compare this to 9/11....SO.....

    This was a natural disaster...while there may have been time to figure out what to do, not all disasters are like that. Tornadoes can cause the same kind of damage, especially a widespread outbreak, without any warning, earthquakes are capable of the same thing.

    So does this mean that because the city/state/feds screwed up that they don't reserve disaster assistance because "they had ample warning" If you believe that, I feel sorry for YOU.

    My attack on George...hardly. If I wanted to "attack" George, I'd start a thread on him. But, I do get tired of his ambiguously sarcastic postings which troll everyone in and gets everyone fired up before someone realizes he is being sarcastic. I also get tired of his dictation of government business, and his viscious attacks on those who have a difference of opinion.

    He accuses everyone who argues with him of being a left-winger...when he is so obviously a right-winger. I wish the WT would just give him his own forum called "GeorgeWendt's Political Commentary". Then he could post his tripe and I would be able to stay away from it, without accidentally stumbling onto it thinking it was something of substance. Those who want to partake in the fiasco could do so of their own accord.

    So for me to say "come down out of your ivory tower"....I don't think I am too far from the truth.

    However, this is a free country, and this is the purpose of the internet...the free sharing of information, so Mr. Wendt has his right to say whatever he wishes. I just wish the man would open his mind a little bit and try to see someone else's side every once and a while, instead of using this forum to dictate his right-wing agenda.

    Before someone accuses me of slander....I'm pretty sure I am not the only member of the forums who feels this way about him. I am also more than happy to allow Mr. Wendt a response to defend himself.

    I may be only 24 years old, from Iowa, or any other demeaning mention of my name by people on this forum, but I can spot a troll when I see one.

  13. #13
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    2,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by parafire81
    You're right...9/11 was a terrorist attack without warning (though some would disagree on the "no warning" argument) But, everyone wants to compare this to 9/11....SO.....

    This was a natural disaster...while there may have been time to figure out what to do, not all disasters are like that. Tornadoes can cause the same kind of damage, especially a widespread outbreak, without any warning, earthquakes are capable of the same thing.

    So does this mean that because the city/state/feds screwed up that they don't reserve disaster assistance because "they had ample warning" If you believe that, I feel sorry for YOU.

    My attack on George...hardly. If I wanted to "attack" George, I'd start a thread on him. But, I do get tired of his ambiguously sarcastic postings which troll everyone in and gets everyone fired up before someone realizes he is being sarcastic. I also get tired of his dictation of government business, and his viscious attacks on those who have a difference of opinion.

    He accuses everyone who argues with him of being a left-winger...when he is so obviously a right-winger. I wish the WT would just give him his own forum called "GeorgeWendt's Political Commentary". Then he could post his tripe and I would be able to stay away from it, without accidentally stumbling onto it thinking it was something of substance. Those who want to partake in the fiasco could do so of their own accord.

    So for me to say "come down out of your ivory tower"....I don't think I am too far from the truth.

    However, this is a free country, and this is the purpose of the internet...the free sharing of information, so Mr. Wendt has his right to say whatever he wishes. I just wish the man would open his mind a little bit and try to see someone else's side every once and a while, instead of using this forum to dictate his right-wing agenda.

    Before someone accuses me of slander....I'm pretty sure I am not the only member of the forums who feels this way about him. I am also more than happy to allow Mr. Wendt a response to defend himself.

    I may be only 24 years old, from Iowa, or any other demeaning mention of my name by people on this forum, but I can spot a troll when I see one.
    I don't think anyone would accuse me of being a george defender, especially after the the thread that caused the we b team to have a hissy fit (for the record george, I was not offended, I was enjoying our debate and wish people had thicker skins when it comes to arguing a point here.). We have disagreed on every post we are a part of. That said, just because he is good at arguing his point is no reason to get bent out of shape. You accuse him of being sarcastic? No S*&T? Wow, thats a shock! What do you guys do at your firehouse? Knit? The minor jagging that goes on here is nothing compared to most firehouses kitchens. I can't believe that anyone is so thin skinned that they can't take a little spirited debate. Butch up a little, will ya?

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,043

    Default

    Parafire...

    As I said it was painful for me to defend George. He and I have battled bunerous times and his style is well known to everyone on this forum.

    More though than you shot at George was this line that to me was out of line:
    But oh wait....that was okay because 343 firefighters died in that disaster.
    Do I believe that New Orleans should get federal money for disaster aid? Of course I do. Do I also believe that the local governement and the State government screwed up royally and then tried to pin all the blame on the feds? Of course I do.

    What appears clear to me in George's post is that the local and state governments mismanaged funds to help prevent this type of scenario frrom ever occuring. Am I surprised at this? Not in the least. Money that is not overseen properly almost always gets squandered.

    This was a natural disaster...while there may have been time to figure out what to do, not all disasters are like that. Tornadoes can cause the same kind of damage, especially a widespread outbreak, without any warning, earthquakes are capable of the same thing.

    So does this mean that because the city/state/feds screwed up that they don't reserve disaster assistance because "they had ample warning" If you believe that, I feel sorry for YOU.
    Does it mean they don't deserve federal aid? No, it does not. Does it mean there was a complete failure by local and state governement to prepare? Can I get a big HELL YES? The hurricane nappened...was it the locals fault there was a hurricane? No. The state's fault? No. George Bush's fault? No. Was the fact that so called emergency plans developed by the locals were woefully inadequate a massive reason for so much pain, suffering and destruction? Of course.

    It seems you and George must share turns on the high horse.

    FyredUp

  15. #15
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Southeast Iowa
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp
    Parafire...

    As I said it was painful for me to defend George. He and I have battled bunerous times and his style is well known to everyone on this forum.

    More though than you shot at George was this line that to me was out of line:

    Do I believe that New Orleans should get federal money for disaster aid? Of course I do. Do I also believe that the local governement and the State government screwed up royally and then tried to pin all the blame on the feds? Of course I do.

    What appears clear to me in George's post is that the local and state governments mismanaged funds to help prevent this type of scenario frrom ever occuring. Am I surprised at this? Not in the least. Money that is not overseen properly almost always gets squandered.



    Does it mean they don't deserve federal aid? No, it does not. Does it mean there was a complete failure by local and state governement to prepare? Can I get a big HELL YES? The hurricane nappened...was it the locals fault there was a hurricane? No. The state's fault? No. George Bush's fault? No. Was the fact that so called emergency plans developed by the locals were woefully inadequate a massive reason for so much pain, suffering and destruction? Of course.

    It seems you and George must share turns on the high horse.

    FyredUp

    What I understood George was implying here was that since he thinks everyone is idiots in the Gulf Coast, whether they didn't plan correctly, mismanged funds, or are just plain the "scum of the earth", that they don't deserve disaster relief aid from the federal government.

    Numerous times in other threads, he has chastised anyone who tries to connect any blame to George Bush, and has compared NO firefighters going on vacation to Las Vegas after working a week straight to FDNY guys "leaving the pile while their brothers are still in there".

    Since he thinks so highly of GWB, and wants to compare 9/11 to this disaster. I am going to fire back with responses aimed at that comparison.

    My quip about the 343 firefighters (and yes the 3000+ civilians) who were MURDERED that day, was meant exactly what it was meant as, and I have no apologies for it. To me, what George implies is that because 9/11 was a surprise terrorist attack, that deserved an outpouring of federal money, but this natural disaster should be handled on a local level and is undeserving of federal dollars. If I read further, it means that because firefighters were killed in those attacks...it justifies federal money, but because none were killed in Katrina, it doesn't. That is what I meant by that line.

    If George were to have his way, since he has openly announced that he feels the government should not support things of local issue...

    Consider this:

    If we did away with Medicare/Medicaid...nearly every health care facility in this country would close.

    If we did away with the federal highway system, our states would go further bankrupt by being saddled with maintenance issues. Also, the interstate system, which by the way is of strategic importance would cease to exist.

    If we did away with social security, hundreds of thousands of seniors would be indigent.

    If we left law enforcement to solely the local areas, without federal law enforcement authority, we would have more terrorist attacks, and an out of control crime rate.

    School systems would rapidly deteriorate if left solely to be funded at the local level.

    Just to name a few....

    So you see, if we followed George's lead, our nation would essentially implode.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Gee, I'm a friggin' legend. I'm here even ehen I am not here. Seems like we have to go over the same stuff again.

    I am also more than happy to allow Mr. Wendt a response to defend himself.
    BTW, I would like to thank Jake for his gracious offer of allowing me a chance to defend myself.

    1. My posting style involves lots of sarcasm and satire. If you don't like it, I would respectfully suggest that you place me on your ignore l ist and not read or respond to my posts. Think of how easy that would make your life. (Knit! That ws a good one!)

    2. I don't care what you think.

    3. I don't want my own forum.

    4. I don't call everyone who disagrees with me a "left winger". Martin Rucinsky is a left winger for the Rangers. I am not certain where his political views are.

    I enjoy when someone disagrees with me. Why would someone come on here and debate if they were not prepared to defend their position? Its a typical liberal attitude that says if I won't change my mind to agree with you than you are closed minded and opinionated. Liberals don't wantopenmindedness, they want capitulation.

    If you disagree with me, fine. I am a proud conservative. LEt me sayt it again: I AM A PROUD CONSERVATIVE! If your political views diverge from those of a conservative, you are, by definition, a liberal. Sorry.

    5. A troll? Hardly. A troll goes on every thread and posts just to stir things up. You will note that, unlike some of you, there are many, many threads where I do not post at all. I post on threads that involve things I care about. You will also note that, unlike some of you, I post on threads that do not involve politics as well.

    6. Can someone please post the thread where I said that NO did not deserve any federal money? You can't, because it doesn't exist. NO doesn not deserve to be given a nickel to administer on its own. They have proven over and over that their administration is too corrupt and/or too incompetent to be given $5 to go get coffee at the 7-11. A radical approach, such as a czar or a volunteer, independent commission must be formed. Strict guidelines on how the money can be used must be established. Accounting and auditing procedures must be part of any aid package. This goes for LA, MS or AL.

    7. I also never said anywhere, nor do I believe, that the mitigation of the effets of the hurricane and the reconstruction of the gulf coast is a "local issue". Where did I say that? You are taking literary license with my comments on another thread.

    8. I ALSO never said that the federal government should not be involved in any project. The cases you cited; Medicare/Medicaid (even though it is a disaster), the highway system, federal law enforcement, etc. are prefect examples of what the federal government should be doing. They are projects that involve interstate commerce, or benefit people in multiple states. The federal government should coordinate efforts in a terrorist attack because that is an attack on this country. They should also coordinate resources in a natural disaster once the resources of the state are exhausted or overwhelmed. That is what they do.

    They sold not be involved in providing fire equipment to go to Aunt Sadie's house to put out her ktichen when she leaves food on the stove. That is a local issue.

    9. Millions of seniors are indigent AND recieve Social Security.

    10. The federal government trying to run education has been a major boondoggle. The overwhelming majority for the schools IS ALREADY raised at the local level. That was apoorly researched and poorly thought out exampe just trying to make a point.

    11. The "quip" about the 343 murdered fire fighters showed a complete lack of class and disrespect for those brothers. But , then again, I wouldn't expect any less.

  17. #17
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Southeast Iowa
    Posts
    158

    Default

    POST AND USER REMOVED FOR PERSONAL ATTACK
    Last edited by WebTeam; 09-22-2005 at 10:52 AM.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    POST REMOVED
    Last edited by WebTeam; 09-22-2005 at 10:53 AM.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ChiefReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Illinois-where pertnear is close enough!
    Posts
    5,636

    Default

    POST REMOVED
    Last edited by WebTeam; 09-22-2005 at 10:54 AM.
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    DennisTheMenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Washington, DC/Northern Virginia
    Posts
    3,717

    Default

    The $200 billion should be diverted back to the Man to Mars mission.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    South Louisiana
    Posts
    17

    Angry

    Forgive me for what I wrote earlier, just a little emotional with some of the comments.
    Last edited by rsoup72; 09-21-2005 at 12:15 AM.

  22. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ChiefReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Illinois-where pertnear is close enough!
    Posts
    5,636

    Default

    POST REMOVED
    Last edited by WebTeam; 09-22-2005 at 10:54 AM.
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  23. #23
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Southeast Iowa
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefReason
    parafire:
    You have two problems.
    One; you bring issues from other threads into this thread. Stick to the issues of the topic of the thread and try harder to keep them separate issues.
    If George doesn't care what you think and you don't care what George thinks, then why all of the effort? In your short time here, you have not become the "expert" on GeorgeWendt. You have demonstrated that you barely know him at all.
    Two; ignore #1. The A-word will most likely draw you a seven day suspension with the warning that next time will be the last time.
    And guess who's sitting there smiling?
    CR shakes his head with a smirk on his face!
    Chief, I'm gonna heed your advice here. Not because I am giving in to George, but it has become obvious that arguing with him will do no good. I just have to post one more response...
    Last edited by parafire81; 09-20-2005 at 08:20 PM.

  24. #24
    Permanently Removed

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Southeast Iowa
    Posts
    158

    Default

    POST REMOVED
    Last edited by WebTeam; 09-22-2005 at 10:55 AM.

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ChiefReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Illinois-where pertnear is close enough!
    Posts
    5,636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by parafire81
    And a fat lot of good reporting it did you!
    Give it time, grasshopper.
    It could take a day or two.
    Don't do that victory dance just yet.
    Maybe, you'll just get a tersely worded email.
    Heard of the Purple Hydrant Award?
    Crusties; tell him about the Purple Hydrant.
    Kiwi?
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Help- Working with "Generation Y"
    By CALFFBOU in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 11-23-2003, 10:21 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-31-2003, 04:51 PM
  3. Today
    By mongofire_99 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-07-2001, 08:52 AM
  4. Thermal Imaging SOG's
    By wtfd92 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-27-2001, 08:41 PM
  5. Bush Recommends Cutting FIRE Act; Project Impact
    By webteam in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 383
    Last Post: 03-31-2001, 05:53 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register