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    Default What happen to the respect

    i am new to this site. I am been in the fire service for about three years now. I started when I was 16 years old. I am still young and have alot to learn. When I first came to this site I was reading some of the post about the younger members and post made by the younger members. My question is what happen to the respect between probies and senior men. If I talked to my capt or senior man the way some of these younger members do I wouldn't be in the fire service anymore. What happen to the resepct??

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    Are you saying that you, as a teenager, feel that youare being disrespected by other teenagers? Or that they are distrespecting your seniors? All that you can do is try and set a good example and let your peers know that you do not feel their behavior is acceptable.

    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=73981
    then continue the conversation/thread here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    i am saying that the younger FF don't have the respect for there senior men/women that they did when I was 16. when i first started you if you disrespected a senior man you got your *** handed to you. Just what happen to the respect there used to be between the younger members and the senior men

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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue202
    i am saying that the younger FF don't have the respect for there senior men/women that they did when I was 16. when i first started you if you disrespected a senior man you got your *** handed to you. Just what happen to the respect there used to be between the younger members and the senior men
    Trust me, there were senior guys that did not think that YOU were showing enough respect either. You are complaining about something that has been moaned about since before God invented fire to occupy us.

    Again are you feeling that they are not respecting you, or that they are not respecting guys with real seniority?
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    i am talking about guys that have time in the service the senior man and officers

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    i am talking about the guys with real seniority

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    Then be a junior leader and show the other young guys the proper way to act, and let them know when they are out of line. Put what little seniority that you have to use, not just in the firehouse, but in all of life.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Rescue202: I agree with you. I'm on a vol. dept. that has pepole of all ages joining twice a year. It irks me when someone joins and doesn't respect a Lt. because they're the same age as or older than them. There is very little respect anymore. I don't think a vol. dept. should be any different from a paid dept. with regards to the chain of command and respecting your senior officers.

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    Not that I don't agree with you, but there are some officers that just don't deserve the respect.

    I really try my hardest to give respect where respect is due. However, if a guys a jerk to me just because he's a jerk to everybody, well frankly that crap doesn't fly with me.

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    In my opinion respect is earned not given, especially in the fire service. We have a Captain on my department who thinks he is a firefighting god just because he has been on 4 or 5 different departments in the last 10 or so years and he has the whole "been there, done that" mentality. Noone respects him because he doesn't think before he assigns a task for you to do. I am constantly reminding him that doing this or that is not all that safe and then he realizes his error and assigns something else. Not only this but he constantly rags on the new guys because they don't know anything, at least according to him. I just talk to him on the side and explain that that is the reason we should help them and teach them what we know. This guy is so caught up in himself that noone respects him because he treats most people like dirt.
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    I have been in fire/ems going on 2 years now. When I started at the FD I didn't really understand the entire system and my eagerness lead me to into a couple problems and many times I didn't understand my place. I think its very important that SR Firefighters teach new commers the way the system works espically now where Military Service is not as common and the command structure unlike anything new memebers have seen.

    I now really respect the older memebers and line officers for the work they do and knowledge they have. But it took at 120 day suspention to learn my place and I hope if I can let any newbie know is to learn before you get a summer off. The one thing that I think a Sr member should learn from someone new is sometimes an eager person can come up with a good idea and simply be willing to teach them the ropes because they won't learn any other way.

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    Wink

    In response to the original post, I think I can sum it up as follows:

    A computer + anonymity = assh*le behavior

    A truism that has existed as long as forums have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeNphyer
    Not that I don't agree with you, but there are some officers that just don't deserve the respect.

    I really try my hardest to give respect where respect is due. However, if a guys a jerk to me just because he's a jerk to everybody, well frankly that crap doesn't fly with me.
    Being a jerk has nothing to do with not giving someone respect in a firehouse! If the guy has time on you (expecially rank), then you "owe" him the respect to keep your mouth closed. Some guys are just testing you and if you bite on the bait, well buddy your in for it from more than just the a-hole . That when everyone will join in.

    I'm new to the job as well. I find it's easier for the stuff to roll off your back if you got your head down working on something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KCFireguy
    Being a jerk has nothing to do with not giving someone respect in a firehouse! If the guy has time on you (expecially rank), then you "owe" him the respect to keep your mouth closed. Some guys are just testing you and if you bite on the bait, well buddy your in for it from more than just the a-hole . That when everyone will join in.

    I'm new to the job as well. I find it's easier for the stuff to roll off your back if you got your head down working on something.
    You have to respect the RANK, not the person. You don't even HAVE to respect the experiance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Respect must be earned!!!!!

    I believe you were brought up to respect your elders and that is GREAT!!!!!

    Because some rusty nozzle is on here shooting his keyboard off does not mean you have to respect him.

    As a matter of fact If I could have run my department the way I run my business there would have been a lot of people hitting the road. I have a LOT of friends who are Career and Volunteer Chiefs who feel the same way.

    I feel the same way about many of the people on this site. They feel that because they've knocked down a couple room and contents fires that they can beat their chests and their keyboards. Many of them don't know the difference between a good stop and a lucky stop.

    Their are a lot of people here that I obviously respect and value their opinions. But there are just as many who may know what they are doing but are bad for the fire service and this message board because of the way they conduct themselves and the way they hump their opinions. Just because some loud mouth hot head pushes his opinion and feels everyone should accept it as the gospel does not mean we all should respect him and pay homage to him.

    Good post and good point we should respect those that deserve respect!!!

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    Because I was in the Navy,and raised to say Sir and Ma'am to my elders and superiors,I am under suspicion as being springloaded like a Marine to the "yessir"position.
    I do respect rank as far as the collar devices go.
    Respect for the person wearing the rank is given until I figure out whether or not they actually deserve my personal respect.Then they may go back to getting the proper honorific and my called "Cur"as I speak with them.Or they may go on my list of all around good guys and gals where evryone should strive to be.
    The best leaders I have known have the leadership definition of"Follow Me"and won't have me do anything that they haven't done themselves or wouldn't do right now.
    I like to think that while my officers may not have seen or heard of everything, they should be smart enough to know when they are sending me into more trouble than I am ready for at 2 years experience.

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    Thanks guys for backing me up on the "respect is earned".

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    I've actually had good experience seeing young members (both career & volley) respecting the "elders." They ask questions, are proactive, do their duties, and just down right have made a good impression. Actually brought my faith back into the young folks who I thought weren't respecting people as much.

    As far as your comment, Dennis, about you "have" to respect the rank...I don't completely agree. Yep, I too come from a military background...understand all about rank and respect. But there's one CAPT at my station that I just downright can't get to respect. I do the obligatory stuff that I have to do, but that's about it. I've gone as far as to go way above & beyond w/ that guy to not only earn his respect but to show that I respect him, but he's just a jerk and treats people as such so that went out the window. Do I respect HIS rank? Nope. But I'm polite because he is the rank he is. I'm sure somewhere down the line I'll learn something from the guy, but I'm won't hold my breath.

    I'm with osdf100....respect must be earned.

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    Doughesson,

    I agree with you about respecting the position.

    However, if a person looses my respect I will still respect the position especially in public. During a critique or monthly meeting (closed doors) if you've lost my respect than I may have a problem with the individuals position and views and will voice those and only those concerns if I don't respect him. Because I don't respect a FF doesn't mean I would go after them, its just I wouldn't value their opinion and I would be a little skeptical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeNphyer
    Thanks guys for backing me up on the "respect is earned".
    I also agree with this statement.
    However; different individuals use different criteria to measure whether or not they believe someone has earned respect.
    What criteria will we be using today?
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    Respect is earned, that is for sure. But Rescue202 is right. The probies and new folks of today do not even attempt to show any respect....for the most part.

    We just hire 7 new part time/reserve firefighters. As we get more positions, these folks have first shot at the new slots. Out of the 7, there are on 2 that show any respect to the officers and members of the department that have time on them. I just had one argue with me (as recent as 30 minutes) on whether he needed a witness for a refusal AMA. He said, "In my book it says.....!" I simply said to him...."The book works well in the classroom, get the refusal signed." The same guy came to me less than a month after he started and said..."If you are in charge of gear, you need to order JOE BLOW a new set, I do not think his is any good." Thirty days earlier, this kid could not spell fire engine or EMT... He was a pool installer.

    On the other hand, there is one of the new people who is only 20 yrs old and show the utmost respect for the officers and members with seniority...
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    then there are some who are 20 years old and have seniority...

    But in regarding the topic, fire academy should straighten the respect out of people and if it doesnt, then its a bad academy.

    But, I know I'm going to catch flak, but volunteering is different around here than up north. Down here, I really could care less if someone told me they were a volunteer. And I feel that volunteers should respect paid guys, no matter how long that person has volunteered

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHR1985
    then there are some who are 20 years old and have seniority...
    A twenty year old has no experiance, even if they joined on their 18th birthday.


    Quote Originally Posted by JHR1985
    But in regarding the topic, fire academy should straighten the respect out of people and if it doesnt, then its a bad academy.
    An academy is supposed to teach skills and protocall of the department. If respect is something that is demanded, maybe it should be part of the hiring/interview process, otherwise those at the firehouse will have to show that they deserve it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHR1985
    But, I know I'm going to catch flak, but volunteering is different around here than up north. Down here, I really could care less if someone told me they were a volunteer. And I feel that volunteers should respect paid guys, no matter how long that person has volunteered
    Apparently you don't deserve the respect you seem to demand. So you think that a career rookie/probie right out of the academy should be given more respect then a guy who has volunteered for five, ten twenty, thirty years who has at a minimum the same level of training as the rookie/probie? Many of the volunteers in my department have more training, AND more experiance then most of the career guys in the department. Not only that they have better heads on their shoulders to apply that experiance and training. On top of that the volunteers are doing this for the community on their own time! Now tell me who is more dedicated and does or does not deserve respect!!!!
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Coming from a view outside the firehouse, that is absolutely freakin' insane.
    "if you gaze into the abyss the abyss gazes into you" -Friedrich Nietzsche

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    did you read my post about the difference in volunteers depending by area. I'll give you some examples:

    We are a combo department with 6 or 7 remaining volunteers. Of them, only two ever show up to go on calls. The others just show up at open house or some other public event so they can be seen in public. Of the ones who show up, one is a paid guy on another department, the other is a supervolunteer. The type that he and his whole family go out to eat in his uniform with several radios then leave without paying if they catch a call. He shows up once or twice a year for a 12 hr ride out. Same guy who watches the paid guys roll hose after a fire without volunteering to help.

    Now, you are going to say that just becase a guy like that has been there 7 years that he deserves to be respected by every paid guy that has been there under 7 years? Nope. Probies are told not to respect the volunteer's.

    First words right off the bat in fire academy: If your a volunteer, that does not mean nothing.

    Now, if you had read the last part of my earlier post, I stated that volunteers vary depending on area. Jersey and older cities, it is respected. Down here, its a bunch of goobers.

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