Thread: Truck Question

  1. #1
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    Question Truck Question

    I asked for a extension of time and theFEMA response was "denied".

    Please resubmit with a specific request for time. Your POP expiration is
    close to the anticipated delivery date for your vehicle.

    What is the POP Expiration? and we never gave them a anticipated delivery date that i can remember.

    What if we use some of the money for the chassis once we get the title in hand? (it's in the contract). I would really hate to loose this grant. Any help would be appreciated. We received the grant last December.

    Mark
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    POP is your Period of Performance. That's one year from when you were awarded. You should probably give them a delivery date and ask them for a specific time extension. Make sure it's after your expected delivery date cause we all know manufacturers don't keep them.
    Jack Boczek, Chief
    Ashley Community Fire Protection District

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    Also, they have been known to call manufacturer and check status. Did you call your Grants Management Specialist or just send an email? I would recommend a phone call. Explain the situation...that you anticipate delays, based on the circumstances of _______, and given the facts of __________, etc., etc.

    Remember, these are basically the same folks who want to see justification and cost/benefit in a narrative. So, they still have to "be sold" on other changes as well. I'm sure everyone would like an extension...just have to explain what the reasons are behind it, etc, etc.

    Good Luck!
    Alana Tomlin Denton
    Freelance Grant Writer/Consultant

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    All it appears they want is a specific time period on the extension, not just a request for one. Give them the delivery date that the manufacturer gave you. Give them the contact information at the manufacturer, that way they can verify it, and if it changes again, just keep them updated. I had to do the same thing on our rescue in 2002 with the 6 month report, which ended up being a statement of when the order was made, and when the estimated delivery date was. All they want to know is that progress is being made, and you're still not trying to put it all together.

    - Brian
    Brian P. Vickers
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    Default Grant Extension

    These answers are right on the money. We just went through the same thing that you are talking about. Ford is currently backlogged on F-450/550 chassis. When our chassis came in finally, it was the wrong model. We submitted the grant ammendment request via the grants page and recieved no response on it. The only thing it did accomplish was blocking any money requests while the grant was pending. As soon as a call was made to the grant management specialist, who are extremely helpful and eager to work with you, the problem was resolved. We were granted a 3 month extension. They stated our problem was the request we submitted was open ended and did not list a date for completion. As soon as the 3 month extension was spelled out, the reqeust was granted without delay. Short story is, make the call to the grant manager/specialist, they will get you taken care of.


    Ryan

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    What if we use some of the money for the chassis once we get the title in hand?
    You are generally allowed to pay for you chassis once it is built. We have ordered a commercial chassis tanker and have the invoice in hand for the chassis. I am going to be requesting the funds to pay for the chassis in a few days.

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    From the PG:

    (8) Pre-payments: A grantee may not use grant funds to prepay for products or services in advance of delivery of the products or the rendering of services. A down payment for the purchase of vehicle is allowable if required in the purchase contract, but we will only allow up to 25 percent of the Federal share to be drawn for this purpose. The purchase of any vehicle’s chassis would not be considered a down payment, therefore, eligible. See the AFG program’s Interim Final Rule for more details on this limitation.

    You can't pay for the chassis separate from the rest of the truck. Any downpayment cannot be even related to a chassis prepayment, so don't bother requesting the funds SWFD, you'll watch the truck get towed off at the end of your audit. You cannot take title to any uncomplete vehicle. A chassis is not a fire truck until the rest of it is assembled, and so it cannot be paid for with federal funds until the time of delivery.

    - Brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    From the PG:

    (8) The purchase of any vehicle’s chassis would not be considered a down payment, therefore, eligible. See the AFG program’s Interim Final Rule for more details on this limitation.


    - Brian
    Wouldn't this mean that buying the chassis separate would NOT be a down payment and it would, therefore, be eligible to be drawn down in full? That's the way I interpret it.

    The final rule also says that you can pay up to 50% of the cost as a down payment. Does the PG override this?
    Jack Boczek, Chief
    Ashley Community Fire Protection District

    FLATLANDERS FOREVER!

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    In the past we have been able to purchase a chassis cheaper, not cheaply, through our state bid process than the manufacturer could on its own.

    My interpretation of the rule is the same as yours. I just finished talking to our Specialist in regards to interpretting the rule so we would not run afoul to any rules.

    They stated that the chassis can be purchased and paid for in full, seperately from the 25% down payment rule.

    On top of that, if it's in the contract the 25% down payment can still be used to pay for the pump, tank etc. irregardless of how much the chassis cost.
    Last edited by onebugle; 09-26-2005 at 01:37 PM.

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    Okay...to confirm for everyone.

    I just got off of the phone with my grants management specialist and asked her. Her reply was that you can request up to 50% of your federal share for your trucks cost...either down payment or chassis payment or whatever (Chassis, in our case).
    Last edited by SWFD94; 09-26-2005 at 04:17 PM.

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    No apology necessary, I'm the one that has it wrong, so I'm the one that will do the apologizing around here. I dug into it deeper after seeing the other replies and got my answer right after you posted. They changed this from previous year's after a lot of folks pushed for it as being more cost-effective (after all, that's the goal of the program). What they didn't do was update any of the wording in the PG. It's the same from previous years, but what's changed is in the Final Rule, which wasn't published for us this year, so unless anyone asked, they weren't told this was allowed. The chassis prepayment only involves single source vendors, not purchasing from other vendors.

    Just another notch in the 'Was-Wrong-About-That' belt for me. That's why hang out here too, you can't stop learning. Further proof that nobody's perfect. I wouldn't want to be, last guy that that tried that got nailed to a cross.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er
    They changed this from previous year's after a lot of folks pushed for it as being more cost-effective (after all, that's the goal of the program). What they didn't do was update any of the wording in the PG.
    Wondered why I could not find it in there anywhere....

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    Thanks for keeping us honest. That's another thing that's not in the PG anywhere, the change that allows for up to 50% of the federal funds to be spent as a downpayment. That would allow for more of a benefit to folks that are tight on the line with price increases. You can incur interest on the downpayment from the manufacturer as long as that interest is declared as additional federal funds and you match the extra monies in the end to make sure that you have paid at least 5% of the total at the end of the Performance Period.

    Sheesh, no wonder we can't keep it all straight, the documentation isn't up to date. Almost as bad as my office and the keyboard jockeys not updating product documentation.

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    Default Not very simple is it??

    I am beyond confused right now. Okay from the start.......... We have the chassis sitting at the manufacturers lot, we have a invoice for 98 thousand, this is a 2004 grant. Correct me if i am wrong.. i can request 25% now for the chassis as long as it is in the contract, if it's not in the contract i am S.O.L. Can somebody direct me to the final rules for the 2004 grants? I really appreciate all the help from all of you.............
    BE ALERT AND STAY ALIVE
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    Go to www.firegrantsupport.com and click on "guidance documents". You can then go to the 2004 guidance documents and read all about it for yourself. The final rule, NOFA and PG are all there.
    Jack Boczek, Chief
    Ashley Community Fire Protection District

    FLATLANDERS FOREVER!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TLFD40
    I am beyond confused right now. Okay from the start.......... We have the chassis sitting at the manufacturers lot, we have a invoice for 98 thousand, this is a 2004 grant. Correct me if i am wrong.. i can request 25% now for the chassis as long as it is in the contract, if it's not in the contract i am S.O.L. Can somebody direct me to the final rules for the 2004 grants? I really appreciate all the help from all of you.............
    You can request up to 50% of your grant to pay for your truck chassis (i.e. if you grant is for $200,000 you can request $100,000 of it), downpayment, or whatever. The remaining 50% is to be spent when the truck is completed

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    Thanks for all the help with this...................
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    Question 25% or 50% 2005 Vehicle Downpayment OK?

    Dear Brian,
    I am most comfused on the prior discussions here on this subject. Your recent discussions on the matter did not exactly state that the 50 % down payment applied only to the 2004 vehicle grants, but not the 2005 vehicle grants, which is what I am personally inclined to believe. Please clarify this in plain English for me once and for all, if you would. Thank You.
    Matt

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    Question 25% or 50% 2005 Vehicle Downpayment OK?

    Dear Brian,
    I am most comfused on the prior discussions here on this subject. Your recent discussions on the matter did not exactly state that the 50 % down payment applied only to the 2004 vehicle grants, but not the 2005 vehicle grants, which is what I am personally inclined to believe. I think that the 2005 vehicle grants are specifically limited to a 25% maximum downpayment allowable. Please clarify this in plain English for me once and for all, if you would. Thank You.
    Matt

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    Question 25% or 50% 2005 Vehicle Downpayment OK?

    Dear Brian,
    I am most comfused on the prior discussions here on this subject. Your recent discussions on the matter did not exactly state that the 50% down payment applied only to the 2004 vehicle grants, but not the 2005 vehicle grants, which is what I am personally inclined to believe. I think that the 2005 vehicle grants are specifically limited to a 25% maximum downpayment allowable. Please clarify this in plain English for me once and for all, if you would. Thank You.
    Matt

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    Exact opposite. As SWFD pointed out, for 2005 you can put down up to 50% of the federal funds as a deposit or chassis payment. In 2004 it was not the case, it was only 25%. Or at least that's all that was ever communicated.

    Don't forget to declare any interest discounts gained by doing this, if there are any. And if there are, add your matching to the mix to make the discount bigger. As long as in the grand total you spend enough of your own money to make it 5% of the total purchase price, then all is good. But you can't put in $190K of federal funds, $10K of your own, get a $5K discount and call it a day. You'd need to add another $250 to make the 5% matching total.

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    Smile Ok!

    Dear Brian,
    Thanks for the speedy reply. That's what I was hoping to hear/see. Sorry about the above tripple posts, though. I guess my trigger-finger's a bit jumpy nowadays when dealing with a nearly half-million dollar grant's budgeting issues. I want to do it all exactly right for all the right reasons. I have two final questions, though. (1) How do I find the name and phone number of the Regional Grant Specialist for me here in Illinois, if they still exist (I can't find the link on the firegrantsuppot.com website anymore); and (2),when do I call Him/Her, versus calling the Washington DC-based 'Point of Contact' that is listed on my award notice's back page, for their advice or guidance instead? Thank You.
    Matt

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    If there are still the links for other states on the firegrantsupport site then the Illinois person is probably your DC POC listed on the grant. If there is one for Illinois, then that person can give you their info also so you have a contact in the same time zone. Sometimes that gets messy with everyone not being on the EST. I used to live outside Philly and I still forget about being an hour behind sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptnMatt
    How do I find the name and phone number of the Regional Grant Specialist for me here in Illinois, if they still exist (I can't find the link on the firegrantsuppot.com website anymore
    I will try to e-mail you the Fire Program Specialist name and phone number that I hve been working with from IL. He's really a great guy, but the last time I talked to him he said that he may be changing with someone else and he said to watch out if we did. Either way I'll give you his name and he can steer you in the right direction.

    Ooops, I need your e-mail though. You don't have it listed in your profile.

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    Default Down payment

    I just got off the phone with my grant specialist. I asked for 50% downpayment on the pumper that we ordered for the 2005 grant. I was denied. When I called, he said that I can only ask for 25% for the down payment, then when the chasis comes in, I can ask for payment for that. I asked him about 152.7 of the final rule and explained that it read 50%. He answered that it should have been changed in the final rule and wasn't. Any info on this. I don't want to see anyone get this wrong.

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