1. #1
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    Default 5 inch storz FDC

    We are starting to have a lot of buildings with 5" FDC's.
    Can anyone tell me the proper pressure to pump into these connections at the FDC.

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    Should be no different than a siamese, usually 150 PSI unless otherwise marked.

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    I am not sure.. My thinking is that you will have a funnel effect going from 5in at 150 to 2.5 or whatever it may be. Therefore jackin your presure up inside. However, I than think of compressed air, when you go from a large compressor to a small tire you still are only able to achieve the rated pressure of the compressor. Anybody got any expalinations?

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    A couple departments that we run with have started to do this. However, its our SOG that LDH is for supply. When we have to connect to one of these buildings we use a 2 1/2" to 5" Stroz gated wye and 3" hose. We pump this at our standard FDC pressure of 150psi.

    A question...You say you are starting to have these connections but you dont no what/how to pump them. Who is signing of on these plans? Here our Fire Marshall signs off and he wouldnt require a connection that we didnt know how to use. Just seems odd to me...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEck51
    I am not sure.. My thinking is that you will have a funnel effect going from 5in at 150 to 2.5 or whatever it may be. Therefore jackin your presure up inside. However, I than think of compressed air, when you go from a large compressor to a small tire you still are only able to achieve the rated pressure of the compressor. Anybody got any expalinations?
    No such effect. Pressure is pressure whether or not it is necked down. There are other effects related to flow such as the venturi effect (lower pressure from increased speed from necking down) and friction loss (as the water goes through the pipe the pressure gets lower and lower due to friction).

    I think it seems like a great idea. A quick look at my LDH and it says service test to 200 psi. So 150 should be fine. A single piece of 5" will take only one hookup and you are done, and it can flow as much water as three 3" of the same length. But I have not tried to do it either. I do know it is a chore to move around even dry 5" and once charged, forget about it. But 3 hoses or 1 seems like an obvious choice

    Birken

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    On FDC's, many times I take a 5" to 2.5" adapter and hook the 5" to the FDC. The pressure is the same no matter what size hose, only difference is the friction loss from the truck outlet to the FDC you must compensate for, which will be less for the 5"

    *** IF using 5" hose on an FDC, you should ALWAYS utilize a turn down (if not already incorporated) beause the added weight of the 5" hose with water can and has caused damage to FDC's.

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    Default Great Idea.

    Why didn't I think of that? I guess I will next time, thanks!

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    For you guys using 5" to the FDC: What pressure does your hose get tested to? In our department 5" is strictly supply line and gets tested to 150 psi. Sure, for a sprinkler system this would be fine because we pump sprinkler systems at 150 psi, but what about a stand pipe system? Surely you will be at or over 150 psi at the FDC for any kind of building with some height to it. (we have some buildings over 20 and 30 stories)

    BTW we run 2 1/2" lines to our FDC's
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

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    5" hose is tested to 200 psi.

    Our county has a building restriction to 8 or 9 stories. We have a few that were built before this and are 15-20 stories.

    The key to being a good engineer is adapting to each situation. If I pull up to a 15 story building and the connection is on the 14th for operations on the 15th, I realize this is above the 200psi and must make appropriate connections or relay that to the second in engine.

    Our high rise pack is 150' of 1.75 hose (inadequate I know) with a mystery nozzle (can be converted from adjustible fog to 7/8" SBT. The pressure for this is 107 psi plus 5 psi for the water thief. Add the 25psi for the system and 70 psi for the elevation loss and I am at 207 psi, so two 3" lines would be connected.

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    I agree on the being a good engineer and adapting to each situation part. I was just making sure that guys were taking their hose limitations into consideration.

    Another reason I was asking was that I knew some companies were trying out some higher pressure LDH and I wondered how it was perfoming or if it was being utilized.

    BTW, we run the exact same high-rise packs... Including the fog nozzle with the smooth bore slug tip. Yes, I agree. They are inadequate.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCOOBY14B
    5" hose is tested to 200 psi.

    Our county has a building restriction to 8 or 9 stories. We have a few that were built before this and are 15-20 stories.

    The key to being a good engineer is adapting to each situation. If I pull up to a 15 story building and the connection is on the 14th for operations on the 15th, I realize this is above the 200psi and must make appropriate connections or relay that to the second in engine.

    Our high rise pack is 150' of 1.75 hose (inadequate I know) with a mystery nozzle (can be converted from adjustible fog to 7/8" SBT. The pressure for this is 107 psi plus 5 psi for the water thief. Add the 25psi for the system and 70 psi for the elevation loss and I am at 207 psi, so two 3" lines would be connected.

    Exactly why we use 3". I dont think these departments that are useing LDH are taking the possiblity of higer pressure into consideration. They are going off the starting point of 150psi and not planning for much else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave1983
    Exactly why we use 3". I dont think these departments that are useing LDH are taking the possiblity of higer pressure into consideration. They are going off the starting point of 150psi and not planning for much else.
    It just comes down to what you have in your jurisdiction. Where we do a lot of sprinkler installations, virtually nothing is over two stories, and in the day of ridiculously low staffing in some of these "bursting at the seams" suburb communities, they see the Storz route as one more way of freeing up time/manpower etc. to let people do something else. Heck, the one job I'm resubmitting now for approval, the village has the spacing of the hydrant in relation to the FDC spelled out, and a good engineer could secure his own supply, secure the LDH to the building, and be pumping hydrant water in easily three or four minutes. They even require both a 4" Storz and a standard dual 2-1/2 clappered siamese for FDCs, in case a mutual aid partner snags FDC duty. What do they care, they aren't paying for the extra hardware... We're seeing a lot of Storz FDCs being required to have 30 degree elbows on them as well.

    Considering that these systems are designed to adequately operate in the 70-80 psi range at the top end, even if you're at 140 psi coming into the building, unless something catastrophic has happened, you'll do fine. I've even read sprinkler articles stating that if you push too much pressure through a sprinkler head, all you're doing is creating a finer mist - and the water droplets never make it to the base of the fire. Steam conversion is great, but in a huge big box store, you're going to need a lot of steam before you're doing any good.

    I'm not saying either method is wrong, but the Storz FDC has a lot of applications where it will work, and work very well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801
    It just comes down to what you have in your jurisdiction. Where we do a lot of sprinkler installations, virtually nothing is over two stories, and in the day of ridiculously low staffing in some of these "bursting at the seams" suburb communities, they see the Storz route as one more way of freeing up time/manpower etc. to let people do something else. Heck, the one job I'm resubmitting now for approval, the village has the spacing of the hydrant in relation to the FDC spelled out, and a good engineer could secure his own supply, secure the LDH to the building, and be pumping hydrant water in easily three or four minutes. They even require both a 4" Storz and a standard dual 2-1/2 clappered siamese for FDCs, in case a mutual aid partner snags FDC duty. What do they care, they aren't paying for the extra hardware... We're seeing a lot of Storz FDCs being required to have 30 degree elbows on them as well.

    Considering that these systems are designed to adequately operate in the 70-80 psi range at the top end, even if you're at 140 psi coming into the building, unless something catastrophic has happened, you'll do fine. I've even read sprinkler articles stating that if you push too much pressure through a sprinkler head, all you're doing is creating a finer mist - and the water droplets never make it to the base of the fire. Steam conversion is great, but in a huge big box store, you're going to need a lot of steam before you're doing any good.

    I'm not saying either method is wrong, but the Storz FDC has a lot of applications where it will work, and work very well.


    I dont have aproblem useing LDH for sprinkler only systems, just not for standpipes.
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    Our fire code requires 5" storz FDCs. They work great for the sprinkler systems they're hooked up to. We've only had two standpipe systems put in since the new code, and those standpipes are actually in buildings less than three stories. They were just required for easy hose reach inside the buildings because they're very expansive area wise, but not height.

    Our engineers are all trained to, if on a higher floor fire, to use dual 2.5" hoses.

    Our code also requires a fire hydrant within 100' feet of the FDC connection. Meaning basically its a one man hook-up. We've practiced it, and we've done the lone man hook-up on a fire. It works well for us and our engineers' level of training.
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    Snap-Tite (and I'm sure others) makes 5" hose for attack, which is good for pressures up to 400psi. Might be worth considering if you have to use 5" to supply those standpipes at higher floors.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Arrow Read the valve fitting

    All FDC's I have run across have a stated pressure on the brass ring around them. And 150 psi is 150 psi regardless of the size of the hose feeding the system. We have everything from 1 1/2" single inlets residential systems to a couple of 5" storz's on industrials and we have SOG to pump 'em all at 150 psi.



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