1. #26
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    Hey,they're trying to be diverse there.Just like WW Herenton was when he was elected to Mayor of Memphis.Remember how fun THAT was?
    To be frank,if I were needing Last Rites,all that would matter to me would be that they got the words right.What skin color or religion they followed wouldn't matter now or then.


    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    How did this guy get hired anyway? I am not meaning to knock the entire muslim religion, but how many muslims are on the FDNY. My first guess would be zero, but there may be a couple.

    The point being, why did the trumpet blowers of the FDNY ever see it appropriate to hire a muslim "chaplin" for 10,000 catholics???

    Is it just me??

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson
    Hey,they're trying to be diverse there.Just like WW Herenton was when he was elected to Mayor of Memphis.Remember how fun THAT was?
    To be frank,if I were needing Last Rites,all that would matter to me would be that they got the words right.What skin color or religion they followed wouldn't matter now or then.



    What do you mean was?? Herenton is still here!!

    As far as your point goes, you kinda made mine as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but muslims don't believe or practice last rights. I she gonna carry a card around like miranda rights?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a
    How did this guy get hired anyway? I am not meaning to knock the entire muslim religion, but how many muslims are on the FDNY. My first guess would be zero, but there may be a couple.
    ....
    Is it just me??
    Yes, it's just you.

    FDNY's Islamic Society requested the Imam as a Muslim Chaplain. I don't know how many FDNY members are Muslim but, given that FDNY has an "Islamic Society," it would seem certain that the number is non-zero.

    (FWIW, Islam is arguably the fastest growing religion in the US. Statistically, about 5 in every 1,000 Americans is Muslim.)

    IMHO, the Imam's words were ill considered but he at least had the good grace to realize it and resign before it became a larger issue. Hopefully his replacement will be more careful about expressing his political opinions in public.
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    Quote:

    FDNY's Islamic Society requested the Imam as a Muslim Chaplain. I don't know how many FDNY members are Muslim but, given that FDNY has an "Islamic Society," it would seem certain that the number is non-zero.


    I have never claimed to know everything about the FDNY, but I have learned something new about them today.
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal
    Yes, it's just you.

    FDNY's Islamic Society requested the Imam as a Muslim Chaplain. I don't know how many FDNY members are Muslim but, given that FDNY has an "Islamic Society," it would seem certain that the number is non-zero.

    (FWIW, Islam is arguably the fastest growing religion in the US. Statistically, about 5 in every 1,000 Americans is Muslim.)

    IMHO, the Imam's words were ill considered but he at least had the good grace to realize it and resign before it became a larger issue. Hopefully his replacement will be more careful about expressing his political opinions in public.
    Statistically speaking, that would make about 60 Muslims, right?

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    IMHO, the Imam's words were ill considered but he at least had the good grace to realize it and resign before it became a larger issue. Hopefully his replacement will be more careful about expressing his political opinions in public.
    Actually he didn't want to resign originally however the powers that be convinced him otherwise. He stated he didn't understand why he should resign but did it anyway. The fact that he came this far and a reporter by chance discovered his true feelings is an abomination. How can you pick a Chaplin who was trained in Saudi Arabia for gods sake and not ask what his feelings were towards the 9-11 attacks or all the other terrorist attacks perpatrated by islamic nut jobs?

    This is just another insult from this empty suit commish who has the blood of our departed brothers on his hands and has done every thing to destroy this job with his ignorance and incompetance.

    Mr. Magoo should resign in light of this lastest foul up. However I'm sure we'll get more PC BS from this clown.

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    What's with all the whining, crying and complaining? What did you expect to get from a muslim? If you ask me, it appears that FDNY got what they paid for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TurdFergeson
    What's with all the whining, crying and complaining? What did you expect to get from a muslim? If you ask me, it appears that FDNY got what they paid for.
    Is the religion bashing really necessary? If you disagree with the man's politics, fine. But making bigotted statements about his religion -- which many of your brother firefighters share, BTW -- is over the top.

    Odds are you yourself are a Christian of one flavor or another. Are you even aware that Islam is far more like Christianity than unlike it? Both religious groups share a common religious heritage and both pray to the same G_d of Abraham/Ilbrahim.

    Remember, religious fanaticism and intolerance is what brought us 9-11 in the first place.
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    October 1, 2005 -- The Fire Department has hired two Muslim chaplains in the past four years, and the process was badly flawed each time.
    The first, Imam Abd'Allah Adesanya, was hired in 2001 over the objections of its Islamic Society, never gained the trust of Muslim fire personnel, and quietly left the department last year, officials said.
    The latest, Imam Intikab Habib, was hired with the enthusiastic support of the Islamic Society of Fire Department Personnel. He left the job Friday, less than two hours before he was to be officially sworn in, after admitting he had doubts about the official version of events surrounding the Sept. 11 terror attacks.
    The department said Friday that it would continue its search for a new imam in its usual manner, seeking comment from religious and fraternal organizations and members of the candidates' religious hierarchy.
    Neither the Islamic Society nor the Fire Department would say how many Muslims were in the department, but estimates range from 50 to 150, including firefighters, emergency medical personnel and civilians. "At the present time we have no plans to change our procedures," department spokeswoman Virginia Lam said. Depositions in 2001 in a lawsuit by the Islamic Society seeking to force the appointment of an imam suggested that religious leaders played a major role in who became a chaplain.
    The Rev. John Delendick, now a chaplain, said the only person who interviewed him for the job was Bishop Thomas Daily of the Brooklyn Diocese. "After I submitted the application... I received a phone call from Bishop Daily giving me the appointment. The following day I received a letter from the Fire Department stating that I had been hired," Delendick said in his deposition.
    Rabbi Mayer Birnhack, who was an Emergency Medical Service chaplain with the Fire Department, was asked during his deposition in 2001 whether "the Fire Department requested the Board of Rabbis to select a new Jewish chaplain?" "One hundred percent. One hundred percent," he said. Lam did not dispute the deposition testimony, but said the selection process was wider than was stated. The department currently has six chaplains, four Roman Catholic priests, one Protestant minister and one rabbi.
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    I think that he already has a lawyer lined up, compliments of the ACLU, will claim hostile work environment or free speech infringement.
    He's stepped down, but is he GONE?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefReason
    I think that he already has a lawyer lined up, compliments of the ACLU, will claim hostile work environment or free speech infringement.
    That's sad.

    If he had issues he should not have resigned under pressure.

    I wish him well, but I think he'll have a rough row to hoe after he voluntarily resigned.

    (In case anyone wonders why this is an issue for me. I'm one of those minority religion firefighters.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal
    Is the religion bashing really necessary? If you disagree with the man's politics, fine. But making bigotted statements about his religion -- which many of your brother firefighters share, BTW -- is over the top.

    Odds are you yourself are a Christian of one flavor or another. Are you even aware that Islam is far more like Christianity than unlike it? Both religious groups share a common religious heritage and both pray to the same G_d of Abraham/Ilbrahim.

    Remember, religious fanaticism and intolerance is what brought us 9-11 in the first place.
    Here's a quiz:

    Which Christians flew planes into buildings in the name of their God?

    Which Christians strapped bombs around their waist and went into a nightclub (twice) and blew themselves up in a crowd of people?

    Which Christians drove truck bombs into a US Military facility and detonated them?

    I could go on, but we will let this quiz be part one.

    anybodyt else sick of hearing how Islam is "just like Christianity?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Here's a quiz:

    Which Christians flew planes into buildings in the name of their God?

    Which Christians strapped bombs around their waist and went into a nightclub (twice) and blew themselves up in a crowd of people?

    Which Christians drove truck bombs into a US Military facility and detonated them?

    I could go on, but we will let this quiz be part one.

    anybodyt else sick of hearing how Islam is "just like Christianity?"
    But it's okay George, he's one of the "minority firefighters"..

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal
    Is the religion bashing really necessary? If you disagree with the man's politics, fine. But making bigotted statements about his religion -- which many of your brother firefighters share, BTW -- is over the top.

    Odds are you yourself are a Christian of one flavor or another. Are you even aware that Islam is far more like Christianity than unlike it? Both religious groups share a common religious heritage and both pray to the same G_d of Abraham/Ilbrahim.

    Remember, religious fanaticism and intolerance is what brought us 9-11 in the first place.
    I wasn't bashing Islam. But why would you expect a muslim to speak against other muslims. As far as Islam being like Christianity, that is far from the truth. But the gist of my message was, NYC shouldn't be surprised with this guy's statements. If a catholic chaplin said it, then I'd be surprised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Here's a quiz:

    Which Christians flew planes into buildings in the name of their God?

    Which Christians strapped bombs around their waist and went into a nightclub (twice) and blew themselves up in a crowd of people?

    Which Christians drove truck bombs into a US Military facility and detonated them?

    I could go on, but we will let this quiz be part one.

    anybodyt else sick of hearing how Islam is "just like Christianity?"
    Which Christian blew up the Oklahoma City bld. and countless abortion clinics? Lets not even mention factions like the IRA

    The religious beliefs are very similar actually. Fanatics are in both religions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFDNJFF
    Which Christian blew up the Oklahoma City bld. and countless abortion clinics? Lets not even mention factions like the IRA

    The religious beliefs are very similar actually. Fanatics are in both religions.
    1. Timothy McVeigh did not blow up the Murrah Building in the name of God. In fact, I am not aware of any evidence that he was even a Christian.

    2. Abortion clinic bombers most definitely are fanatics. However, they do not target people (athough it is a fair argument that people end up as "collateral damage"). They, for the most part, target the facility. That is why they normally do not blow them up when they are occuppied.

    3. The IRA had a code, if you will, with Scotland Yard. When they were going to blow something up, they would call in with the code, Scotland Yard would have the location evacuated, and the bomb would go off targeting property. That is what happened most of the time.

    You failed this test by the way. Anyone else?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    You failed this test by the way. Anyone else?
    C'mon George, you know it's not a fair test.

    Nobody but a Christian would EVER do anything radical like hijacking planes, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Res343cue
    C'mon George, you know it's not a fair test.

    Nobody but a Christian would EVER do anything radical like hijacking planes, right?
    I don't know. Was there ever a plane hijacking in the name of God by a Christian?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Here's a quiz:

    Which Christians flew planes into buildings in the name of their God?

    Which Christians strapped bombs around their waist and went into a nightclub (twice) and blew themselves up in a crowd of people?

    Which Christians drove truck bombs into a US Military facility and detonated them?

    I could go on, but we will let this quiz be part one.

    anybodyt else sick of hearing how Islam is "just like Christianity?"
    You are a blind fool my friend. That is you are blinded by ignorance and hatred. There are many extremists in every racce and religion, I am sad for you that you are so narrow minded.

    Lets go over some things so that I may educate you.

    The anti-abortion people that killed the doctors? How about them. Are they christians?
    Or Eric Rudolph?

    Quote from Wikipedia:
    In the United States, the most frequent examples of Christian terrorism include the intimidation of abortion clinic employees and patrons, and the murder of abortion providers by (occasionally self-professed Christian) anti-abortion extremists.

    Lets go to the IRA/UVF conflict:

    1974 - May 17: UVF detonates 3 car bombs in Dublin and one in Monaghan; 33 dead the deadliest toll of any one day in Ireland's 'Troubles'
    (thats the protestant group Ulster Volunteer Forces)

    1979 - August 27: Lord Mountbatten and three others are killed by IRA bomb on board his boat off Mullaghmore. The same day two IRA bombs kill 18 British Soldiers near Warrenpoint. After the explosions a heavy gun battle ensued between the Soldiers and the Bombers firing from their position inside the border with the Republic of Ireland. One civilian was caught in the crossfire and killed.

    1980 - December 17: Harrods bomb by the IRA. Six are killed (including three police officers) and 90 wounded during Christmas shopping at the West London department store. (that would be a SHOPPING MALL!!!!)

    Shall I go on???

    OHHHHH....how about a list of Christian Terrorist Organizations:
    * Christian Identity movement
    * Ku Klux Klan (A racist Protestant Christian organization founded during the Reconstruction in the former Confederate States of America)
    * The Order (1980s-present)

    Other Christian-related terror groups with nationalist motivations include:

    * Lord's Resistance Army (Christian/Pagan/Muslim) (1987-present) (Uganda)
    * Nagaland Rebels (1948-present) (Nagaland), including:
    o The National Liberation Front of Tripura
    * God's Army (a rebel faction of the Karen ethnic minority in Burma)

    Now, Hijacking planes? I think you may be correct, but that doesnt mean that it wont happen I suppose. But other than the horrific 9/11 hijackings, when was the last major plane hijacking? How about the last Christian bombings?

    I am not defending anyone by the way. I just hate extremism, and that includes thought processes such as yours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranolaRules
    You are a blind fool my friend. That is you are blinded by ignorance and hatred. There are many extremists in every racce and religion, I am sad for you that you are so narrow minded.

    Lets go over some things so that I may educate you.

    The anti-abortion people that killed the doctors? How about them. Are they christians?
    Or Eric Rudolph?

    Quote from Wikipedia:
    In the United States, the most frequent examples of Christian terrorism include the intimidation of abortion clinic employees and patrons, and the murder of abortion providers by (occasionally self-professed Christian) anti-abortion extremists.

    Lets go to the IRA/UVF conflict:

    1974 - May 17: UVF detonates 3 car bombs in Dublin and one in Monaghan; 33 dead the deadliest toll of any one day in Ireland's 'Troubles'
    (thats the protestant group Ulster Volunteer Forces)

    1979 - August 27: Lord Mountbatten and three others are killed by IRA bomb on board his boat off Mullaghmore. The same day two IRA bombs kill 18 British Soldiers near Warrenpoint. After the explosions a heavy gun battle ensued between the Soldiers and the Bombers firing from their position inside the border with the Republic of Ireland. One civilian was caught in the crossfire and killed.

    1980 - December 17: Harrods bomb by the IRA. Six are killed (including three police officers) and 90 wounded during Christmas shopping at the West London department store. (that would be a SHOPPING MALL!!!!)

    Shall I go on???

    OHHHHH....how about a list of Christian Terrorist Organizations:
    * Christian Identity movement
    * Ku Klux Klan (A racist Protestant Christian organization founded during the Reconstruction in the former Confederate States of America)
    * The Order (1980s-present)

    Other Christian-related terror groups with nationalist motivations include:

    * Lord's Resistance Army (Christian/Pagan/Muslim) (1987-present) (Uganda)
    * Nagaland Rebels (1948-present) (Nagaland), including:
    o The National Liberation Front of Tripura
    * God's Army (a rebel faction of the Karen ethnic minority in Burma)

    Now, Hijacking planes? I think you may be correct, but that doesnt mean that it wont happen I suppose. But other than the horrific 9/11 hijackings, when was the last major plane hijacking? How about the last Christian bombings?

    I am not defending anyone by the way. I just hate extremism, and that includes thought processes such as yours.
    Excuse me, sir, but I am no fool. And BTW, that comment has been reported.

    As for your other comments, I readily acknowledged that there were exceptions in my discussion of the anti-abortion movement and the IRA. I also do not believe that assassinations are the same as mass murder, but feel free to if you like.

    I do not hate anyone. I am by no stretch of the imagination a racist, bigot or extremist. However, I will continue to point out the fallacy of the argument that Islam is the "same" as Chirstianity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Here's a quiz:
    Which Christians flew planes into buildings in the name of their God?
    I know you're better educated than that, George, but then I also know you like to argue just for argument's sake so I'm only going to reply along these lines once.

    There are fanatics in all religions -- Christianity and Islam included. Just as there is a fanatic minority in Islam, there is a fanatic minority in Christianity. Both groups of fanatics have their share of terrorist acts to their credit and neither religious mainstream tolerates those acts.

    We know all about the acts of terrorists who happen to be Muslim -- the press makes a point of reminding us daily -- but lets not be naiive and forget that their have been (and undoubtedly still are) plenty of terrorists who are Christian as well.

    Terrorists are, first and foremost, fanatics. Whichever religion that they distort and use claim to justify their actions is secondary.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal
    I know you're better educated than that, George, but then I also know you like to argue just for argument's sake so I'm only going to reply along these lines once.

    There are fanatics in all religions -- Christianity and Islam included. Just as there is a fanatic minority in Islam, there is a fanatic minority in Christianity. Both groups of fanatics have their share of terrorist acts to their credit and neither religious mainstream tolerates those acts.

    We know all about the acts of terrorists who happen to be Muslim -- the press makes a point of reminding us daily -- but lets not be naiive and forget that their have been (and undoubtedly still are) plenty of terrorists who are Christian as well.

    Terrorists are, first and foremost, fanatics. Whichever religion that they distort and use claim to justify their actions is secondary.
    Thank you this was the point i was trying to make.

    and i guess i may have failed your test but not THE test.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GranolaRules
    You are a blind fool my friend. That is you are blinded by ignorance and hatred. There are many extremists in every racce and religion, I am sad for you that you are so narrow minded.

    Lets go over some things so that I may educate you.

    The anti-abortion people that killed the doctors? How about them. Are they christians?
    Or Eric Rudolph?

    Quote from Wikipedia:
    In the United States, the most frequent examples of Christian terrorism include the intimidation of abortion clinic employees and patrons, and the murder of abortion providers by (occasionally self-professed Christian) anti-abortion extremists.

    Lets go to the IRA/UVF conflict:

    1974 - May 17: UVF detonates 3 car bombs in Dublin and one in Monaghan; 33 dead the deadliest toll of any one day in Ireland's 'Troubles'
    (thats the protestant group Ulster Volunteer Forces)

    1979 - August 27: Lord Mountbatten and three others are killed by IRA bomb on board his boat off Mullaghmore. The same day two IRA bombs kill 18 British Soldiers near Warrenpoint. After the explosions a heavy gun battle ensued between the Soldiers and the Bombers firing from their position inside the border with the Republic of Ireland. One civilian was caught in the crossfire and killed.

    1980 - December 17: Harrods bomb by the IRA. Six are killed (including three police officers) and 90 wounded during Christmas shopping at the West London department store. (that would be a SHOPPING MALL!!!!)

    Shall I go on???

    OHHHHH....how about a list of Christian Terrorist Organizations:
    * Christian Identity movement
    * Ku Klux Klan (A racist Protestant Christian organization founded during the Reconstruction in the former Confederate States of America)
    * The Order (1980s-present)

    Other Christian-related terror groups with nationalist motivations include:

    * Lord's Resistance Army (Christian/Pagan/Muslim) (1987-present) (Uganda)
    * Nagaland Rebels (1948-present) (Nagaland), including:
    o The National Liberation Front of Tripura
    * God's Army (a rebel faction of the Karen ethnic minority in Burma)

    Now, Hijacking planes? I think you may be correct, but that doesnt mean that it wont happen I suppose. But other than the horrific 9/11 hijackings, when was the last major plane hijacking? How about the last Christian bombings?

    I am not defending anyone by the way. I just hate extremism, and that includes thought processes such as yours.

    You make some good arguements. But just because someone says they are a Christian, doesn't mean that they are. In fact, most people who claim to be are not. Just because one goes to church, reads the bible, and is not jewish or muslim, doesn't make them Christian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    1. Timothy McVeigh did not blow up the Murrah Building in the name of God. In fact, I am not aware of any evidence that he was even a Christian.
    Little Timothy hung out with the United Church of God, or what ever that Montana "Christian" White Supremcist group called themselves, many times he claimed to be a Christian doing the work of God and white Americans against the "tyranical Federal government".


    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    2. Abortion clinic bombers most definitely are fanatics. However, they do not target people (athough it is a fair argument that people end up as "collateral damage"). They, for the most part, target the facility. That is why they normally do not blow them up when they are occuppied.
    Rudolph not only target abortion workers but at least one time he targeted the First Responders who arrived to help those individuals that he attacked with the day's bomb number one. And how about the 1996 Olympic Park bombing? Are you saying that he was not attacking people there?



    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    3. The IRA had a code, if you will, with Scotland Yard. When they were going to blow something up, they would call in with the code, Scotland Yard would have the location evacuated, and the bomb would go off targeting property. That is what happened most of the time.

    You failed this test by the way. Anyone else?
    Actually it was alot of the time, but unfortuantely no where near "most of the time". Sure it is symantics, but there have been Islamic extremist groups that until recently usually called in some sort of a warning as well, placing them all in the same group.

    This "chaplain" did not belong in the position of an FDNY Chaplain because of his view/opinion on something that he would be tending to the flock about specificly. Not because he is Muslem and not because he might hate America.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurdFergeson
    You make some good arguements. But just because someone says they are a Christian, doesn't mean that they are. In fact, most people who claim to be are not. Just because one goes to church, reads the bible, and is not jewish or muslim, doesn't make them Christian.
    Then just because someone reads the Koran, goes to the Mosque, and prays seven times a day they are not really Muslim. Your logic is very flawed.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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