1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    What else do you have to make someone a member of those faiths?
    That's the question I am asking you. My question was directed at your statement about a person qualifying themself by going to church/mosque and declaring respective faiths.
    Last edited by thelawgiver; 10-04-2005 at 08:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thelawgiver
    That's the question I am asking you. My questions are directed at your statement about a person qualifying themself by going to church/mosque and declairing respective faiths.
    So you come on here for the first time, or as an AE, to be a the retorical questioner of the year? You are asking questions that I have answered. Answer some yourself. Where do you stand on this issue or are you attempting to be a troll? Are you trying to defend the Christian or Muslem faith with your posts? I have shown that neither Christians or Muslems are free of killings/murder in the name of their religion. You can say that it is not the part of the religion that you believe in, but you can't say that it is not a part, even if perverted part, of the faith's flock.
    Last edited by DennisTheMenace; 10-04-2005 at 04:54 PM.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TurdFergeson
    I never set a defininition or standard for what a christian is. And I never said anything about islam or any religion not existing. But you cannot deny the fact that just because someone claims to be something, doesn't mean that they are what they claim to be. To think otherwise would be naive.
    So were Rudolph and Atta imposters to Christianity and Islam respectively? As much as many of us might like to do, you can't seperate the religion from these terrable acts, it is the heart of their motivation.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    So you come on her for the first time or as an AE to be a the retorical questioner of the year? You are asking questions that I have answered. Answer some yourself. Where do you stand on this issue or are you attempting to be a troll? Are you trying to defend the Christian or Muslem faith with your posts? I have shown that neither Christians or Muslems are free of killings/murder in the name of their religion. You can say that it is not the part of the religion that you believe in, but you can't say that it is not a part, even if perverted part, of the faith's flock.
    So this is where we end up? I haven't gotten personal with you. I used your person to try and illustrate a point. But I haven't done any name calling or accused you of anything.

    You made some comments and I simply questioned you on them so that I could clearly understand what you were trying to say. I still can't figure that out. I thought that was what people do on forums.

    As far as me defending something, the only declaration I have made, is that you(among everyone else) are an individual that has a personal identity. I am sure everyone would agree to that.

    It really doesn't matter where I stand on the issue. The point that I was trying to make is that just because someone claims to be something doesn't necessarily mean they are. I could claim to be a dog, just because I sleep in a doghouse, rollover, bark or may even look like one, doesn't mean that I am one.
    Last edited by thelawgiver; 10-04-2005 at 06:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Individual identity and group membership/identification are two seperate things, not the same as your premise is trying to make.
    Were you willing to expound on this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    You see, I AM better educated than you give me credit for. I am not arguing for arguments sake. There is a fundamental point, here. There is no similiarity between the methods of Islam and the methods of Christianity. Islam seeks to take over the world by force and to mantain control by fear and intimidatoin. The message of Chritianity is of a living God who has offered eternal salvation. All you have to do is accept His gift. No force, No coercion.
    OMG!!!! How about a few hundred years ago??? No force or coercion??

    How about the Crusades??

    How about the Spanish Inquisition???

    How about the Salem Witch Trials and hunts throughout England and Ireland and Scotland and the US???

    How about the English Civil Wars??

    NO RELIGION IS BLAMELESS OR HAS NOT COMMITTED ACTS OF VIOLENCE!!!!
    EVEN CHRISTIANITY HAS FORCED ITSELF ON PEOPLE BY VIOLENCE!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Tell me when we "abandoned" the Afghan people. It was nothing that we did or did not do in Afghanistan that upset Osama, it was his reaction to our reaction over Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, and the subsequent stationing of U.S. Troops, read "infidels", on the Arabian Holy Lands that infuriated him. Which really place the root cause of 9/11 and our eventual re-invasion of Iraq squarely at the feet of Saddam.
    In 1979 "the largest covert operation in the history of the CIA" was launched in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in support of the pro-Communist government of Babrak Kamal

    Often cited as one of the American intelligence community's biggest blunders is the CIA involvement in equipping and training Mujahedeen fighters in Afghanistan in response to the Soviet invasion of the country. Many of the Mujahedeen trained by the CIA later joined Usama bin Laden's Al Qaeda terrorist organization.

    At times there were reportedly 1000-2000 American Special Forces Soliders and CIA Operations Directorate Staff in Afghanistan, with as many as 150 American Soldiers Killed.

    When the American Government, under the authority of President Regan found the cost too high, in personnel and equipment, the troops were withdraw without any given reason to the Mujahedeen Fighters, which were slaughtered for the next 4 months, until they regained the upper hand.


    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    And the polls in general still show majority support for the war, the difference is if we are fighting it in a way that the majority wants us to or not.
    NEW YORK, Sept 17, 2005 (Reuters) - Support for the war in Iraq among Americans has tumbled to an all-time low, according to a New York Times/CBS News poll published on Saturday.

    Only 44 PERCENT of those surveyed said the United States did the right thing by invading Iraq, the lowest rating since the question was first asked by the poll more than two years ago, the poll showed, according to The New York Times.

    Furthermore, more than eight in 10 Americans are very or somewhat concerned that the war is costing money and resources needed in the United States, the poll showed.

    Nearly 60 percent now disapprove of the president's handling of the Iraqi conflict and nearly half of all Americans are not proud of what the United States is doing in the war, the poll found.

    Here is another site for polling/non-partisan - http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

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    sorry...disregard last, meant to put it sheehan posting....

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranolaRules
    OMG!!!! How about a few hundred years ago??? No force or coercion??

    How about the Crusades??

    How about the Spanish Inquisition???

    How about the Salem Witch Trials and hunts throughout England and Ireland and Scotland and the US???

    How about the English Civil Wars??

    NO RELIGION IS BLAMELESS OR HAS NOT COMMITTED ACTS OF VIOLENCE!!!!
    EVEN CHRISTIANITY HAS FORCED ITSELF ON PEOPLE BY VIOLENCE!!!
    This is a discussion about modern terrorism and the propensity of the Muslim religion to commit those acts in the name of their god. It is also about their stated purpose to convert the entire world, by force if necessary, to Islam.

    I suppose that one could draw parallels to the things that happened hundreds, perhaps thousands, of years ago. But it is probably outside the scope of this current discussion.

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    DING, DING, DING!!! - DennisTheMenace/thelawgiver...back to your respective corners gentlemen...geez...can't we all just get along???

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    I thought forums were an exchange of ideas. Someone made comments so I responded to them. I don't think any of these kind of things would work if people just posted what they thought and no one ever responded to what they said. In my opinion, when someone states a 'matter of fact', they expect to be responded to. Just my thoughts.

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    I forgot to post this in the debate on "christian terrorists"....especially since I have been in these communities myself...

    In Israel there are many Palstinian Christians that are involved in "jihad-esque" activites and there have even been SUICIDE BOMBERS from the Christian community over there.

    In the 2000 Intifada uprising, there were about 100 Christian "martyrs" in the fight with Israel........

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranolaRules
    I forgot to post this in the debate on "christian terrorists"....especially since I have been in these communities myself...

    In Israel there are many Palstinian Christians that are involved in "jihad-esque" activites and there have even been SUICIDE BOMBERS from the Christian community over there.

    In the 2000 Intifada uprising, there were about 100 Christian "martyrs" in the fight with Israel........
    Source please

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Source please
    From
    PALESTINIAN CHRISTLANS: CHALLENGES AND HOPES
    Bernard Sabella
    Associate professor of Sociology
    Bethlehem University, Palestine
    -------------------
    The Intifada and the Oslo Accords

    "The intense political relationships between Israelis and Palestinians came to a head-on clash with the outburst of the Intifada in December 1987.Christians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip actively participated in it; some became martyrs, others were imprisoned and still others had to hide from Israeli pursuit. Christian communities reacted collectively as they pressed, like other Palestinians, for an end of occupation and for a new relationship with the Israelis based on mutual respect and recognition of rights. The Intifada itself, as perceived by Palestinians and their leaders, was a call to make peace with Israel based on the presence of two peoples on the land. Besides, the Intifada made Palestinians proud that they could confront Israelis as equals."
    -------------------
    The following is a translation of the article as published on the official Hamas website on Jan. 11, 2003:

    On Jan 10, 2003 the ex spokesman of the Orthodox Church of Jerusalem and the Holy Land, Atta Allah Hana, praised the suicide bombings of organized Palestinian terror against Israeli citizens. He also called for the establishment of an Islamic-Christian union that will work together to foil the "American offensive" against Iraq and "to release Palestine from the river to the sea".
    Archbishop Atta Allah Hana called on Arab and Palestinian Christians to join the struggle against the occupation by employing any means at their disposal, as they too are a part of the Palestinian population".




    --------------------

    Is this enough???

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    You make my point:

    Christian communities reacted collectively as they pressed, like other Palestinians, for an end of occupation and for a new relationship with the Israelis based on mutual respect and recognition of rights. The Intifada itself, as perceived by Palestinians and their leaders, was a call to make peace with Israel based on the presence of two peoples on the land. Besides, the Intifada made Palestinians proud that they could confront Israelis as equals."
    He also called for the establishment of an Islamic-Christian union that will work together to foil the "American offensive" against Iraq and "to release Palestine from the river to the sea".
    Archbishop Atta Allah Hana called on Arab and Palestinian Christians to join the struggle against the occupation by employing any means at their disposal, as they too are a part of the Palestinian population".
    They did it out of a sense of nationalism, not as a holy war for God.

    Next?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    You make my point:





    They did it out of a sense of nationalism, not as a holy war for God.

    Next?

    What ever I should know better to argue with someone that believe their own dogma....

    Hope your living in your own bubble does well for you my friend. Hope it never pops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranolaRules
    What ever I should know better to argue with someone that believe their own dogma....

    Hope your living in your own bubble does well for you my friend. Hope it never pops.
    Its not dogma, its facts.

    If I said something wrong, show me what it is and refute it with facts.

    BTW, there is nothing wrong in actually believing in the things that you say.

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    GENTLEMAN!!!!



    Please. The slug decided that he was not wanted as a Chaplain so he stepped down.

    Let him go else where and spread “his word”. No one cares.


    Maybe the FDNY will take a better look and do better interviews for the replacement.


    All this arguing and bickering is a null and has mute points.



    Let’s move along with something more important!



    Go get them George!!


    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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