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  1. #61
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    Default same heritage same beliefs?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal
    Is the religion bashing really necessary? If you disagree with the man's politics, fine. But making bigotted statements about his religion -- which many of your brother firefighters share, BTW -- is over the top.

    Odds are you yourself are a Christian of one flavor or another. Are you even aware that Islam is far more like Christianity than unlike it? Both religious groups share a common religious heritage and both pray to the same G_d of Abraham/Ilbrahim.

    Remember, religious fanaticism and intolerance is what brought us 9-11 in the first place.
    Just curious to know if you think that just because people come from the same place or heritage, it means that they are just alike? More alike than different? I know people who are siblings and that is where the similarities stop other than maybe the same nose or something.
    Last edited by thelawgiver; 10-04-2005 at 02:02 PM. Reason: wording mistake


  2. #62
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelawgiver
    I am curious to know if you think that just because someone carries around a badge(even an official one) and tells people to stop in the name of the NYPD that they are a NYPD officer or any kind for that matter?
    Are you trying to add on to my comments? Otherwise I am at a loss of why you would put that question to me.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Are you trying to add on to my comments? Otherwise I am at a loss of why you would put that question to me.
    The jist of what I was asking you is just because someone claims to be something, does it mean they are what they are claiming to be, whether that is a christian, cop, Jerry's Kid money collector or even Hurricane Katrina refugee?

  4. #64
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelawgiver
    The jist of what I was asking you is just because someone claims to be something, does it mean they are what they are claiming to be, whether that is a christian, cop, Jerry's Kid money collector or even Hurricane Katrina refugee?
    You better give them the benefit of the doubt if it ain't costing you nothing, ignore them and they are real and you could be in some trouble. but a declaired system of belief is a very different thing then a guy collecting money in a boot for MDA or a man with a badge.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    You better give them the benefit of the doubt if it ain't costing you nothing, ignore them and they are real and you could be in some trouble. but a declaired system of belief is a very different thing then a guy collecting money in a boot for MDA or a man with a badge.
    So I take it your answer is yes?

  6. #66
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelawgiver
    So I take it your answer is yes?
    It would likely be a good idea if you are in NYC at the time, of course it is also a good idea to show a little situational awareness in such an instance. If you are not doing anything wrong and there is no one around you might want to walk towards a well lit area first.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    It would likely be a good idea if you are in NYC at the time, of course it is also a good idea to show a little situational awareness in such an instance. If you are not doing anything wrong and there is no one around you might want to walk towards a well lit area first.
    Thank you for the response. However, I think the crux of the matter has been lost. Let me pose my question a little different. Let's say your name really is DennisTheMenace. I come along doing and saying different things all along the way proclaiming I am DennisTheMenace. Just because I say I am DennisTheMenace, does it really mean that I am DennisTheMenace?
    Last edited by thelawgiver; 10-04-2005 at 03:13 PM.

  8. #68
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelawgiver
    Thank you for the response. However, I think the crux of the matter has been lost. Let me pose my question a little different. Let's say your name really is DennisTheMenace. I come along doing and saying different things all along the way proclaiming I am DennisTheMenace. Just because I say I am DennisTheMenace, does it really mean that I am DennisTheMenace?
    There are many folks in this world named Dennis, and at least three with the exact same sir name as me, so we would both be legit. Two different people can be Christians and have different views on what makes them a Christian and what God expects of them to be considered good Chrisitians. Same with Muslems. It is unfortunate, but you can say they aren't one or the other because you don't agree with their interpretation, you can only say don't group us all together.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    There are many folks in this world named Dennis, and at least three with the exact same sir name as me, so we would both be legit. Two different people can be Christians and have different views on what makes them a Christian and what God expects of them to be considered good Chrisitians. Same with Muslems. It is unfortunate, but you can say they aren't one or the other because you don't agree with their interpretation, you can only say don't group us all together.
    Let me start the premise of my question like this. I am not speaking of the other DTMs, I am speaking of one particular DTM, one that has DNA ---. With that said, just because I go around doing and saying things and claiming to be DTM with DNA ---, does it actually mean that I am DTM?

    Let's not even use the surname DTM. Let's use you. You are an individual with a specific personality, name and a DNA that is only yours. Just because I go around doing and saying things and proclaiming to be you and maybe even sharing the same name you do, does it mean that I am you?

  10. #70
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelawgiver
    Let me start the premise of my question like this. I am not speaking of the other DTMs, I am speaking of one particular DTM, one that has DNA ---. With that said, just because I go around doing and saying things and claiming to be DTM with DNA ---, does it actually mean that I am DTM?

    Let's not even use the surname DTM. Let's use you. You are an individual with a specific personality, name and a DNA that is only yours. Just because I go around doing and saying things and proclaiming to be you and maybe even sharing the same name you do, does it mean that I am you?
    That premise does not apply to this situation. We are talking about groups and group membership, not individual unique identity.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    That premise does not apply to this situation. We are talking about groups and group membership, not individual unique identity.
    How do you figure? You said, "The person might not be what you define as a good Christian, but if they are doing something in the name of Christianity how can YOU say that they are not Christian?" How is that not talking about a person(s) identity?

  12. #72
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelawgiver
    How do you figure? You said, "The person might not be what you define as a good Christian, but if they are doing something in the name of Christianity how can YOU say that they are not Christian?" How is that not talking about a person(s) identity?
    Because they are claiming to be part of a GROUP, not just an individual. How do you declare that they are not part of the group when they qualify by going to Church/Mosque and have declaired their faith as such? Individual identity and group membership/identification are two seperate things, not the same as your premise is trying to make.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Individual identity and group membership/identification are two seperate things, not the same as your premise is trying to make.
    Are you willing to expound?
    Last edited by thelawgiver; 10-04-2005 at 04:27 PM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    How do you declare that they are not part of the group when they qualify by going to Church/Mosque and have declaired their faith as such?
    Are you saying that these things makes someone a christian or muslim?

  15. #75
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelawgiver
    Are you saying that these things makes someone a christian or muslim?
    What else do you have to make someone a member of those faiths?
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    What else do you have to make someone a member of those faiths?
    That's the question I am asking you. My question was directed at your statement about a person qualifying themself by going to church/mosque and declaring respective faiths.
    Last edited by thelawgiver; 10-04-2005 at 08:28 PM.

  17. #77
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelawgiver
    That's the question I am asking you. My questions are directed at your statement about a person qualifying themself by going to church/mosque and declairing respective faiths.
    So you come on here for the first time, or as an AE, to be a the retorical questioner of the year? You are asking questions that I have answered. Answer some yourself. Where do you stand on this issue or are you attempting to be a troll? Are you trying to defend the Christian or Muslem faith with your posts? I have shown that neither Christians or Muslems are free of killings/murder in the name of their religion. You can say that it is not the part of the religion that you believe in, but you can't say that it is not a part, even if perverted part, of the faith's flock.
    Last edited by DennisTheMenace; 10-04-2005 at 04:54 PM.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
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    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurdFergeson
    I never set a defininition or standard for what a christian is. And I never said anything about islam or any religion not existing. But you cannot deny the fact that just because someone claims to be something, doesn't mean that they are what they claim to be. To think otherwise would be naive.
    So were Rudolph and Atta imposters to Christianity and Islam respectively? As much as many of us might like to do, you can't seperate the religion from these terrable acts, it is the heart of their motivation.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    So you come on her for the first time or as an AE to be a the retorical questioner of the year? You are asking questions that I have answered. Answer some yourself. Where do you stand on this issue or are you attempting to be a troll? Are you trying to defend the Christian or Muslem faith with your posts? I have shown that neither Christians or Muslems are free of killings/murder in the name of their religion. You can say that it is not the part of the religion that you believe in, but you can't say that it is not a part, even if perverted part, of the faith's flock.
    So this is where we end up? I haven't gotten personal with you. I used your person to try and illustrate a point. But I haven't done any name calling or accused you of anything.

    You made some comments and I simply questioned you on them so that I could clearly understand what you were trying to say. I still can't figure that out. I thought that was what people do on forums.

    As far as me defending something, the only declaration I have made, is that you(among everyone else) are an individual that has a personal identity. I am sure everyone would agree to that.

    It really doesn't matter where I stand on the issue. The point that I was trying to make is that just because someone claims to be something doesn't necessarily mean they are. I could claim to be a dog, just because I sleep in a doghouse, rollover, bark or may even look like one, doesn't mean that I am one.
    Last edited by thelawgiver; 10-04-2005 at 06:16 PM.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Individual identity and group membership/identification are two seperate things, not the same as your premise is trying to make.
    Were you willing to expound on this?

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