Thread: New AerialScope

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    Default New AerialScope

    The "new" Tower 7 is almost completed as our crew is in Wisconsin for the final inspection tour.

    Pierce is re-mounting the Baker AerialScope from our 1979/90 Mack (former FDNY) to a new Piece Dash. Since we had Baker re-furb it in 1990 when we purchased it you will see "Third Edition" on the windshield.

    The truck is scheduled to leave Pierce next week but we will not have in officially in service for at least a month.

    Photos are on our website, www.birdsborofd.org
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
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    Sharp rig, I don't care whose name is on it. Slick as heck.

    Is that a 95 or 75 footer? I could probably try to look at the pictures and figure it out, but...well, I'm lazy. Though I suspect it to be a 75 since it was on a single axle rear on the Mack chassis.

    Give us some poop on it... Ground ladder complement, motor, etc. Us apparatus geeks like that kind of stuff.

    We pick up a new engine next Wednesday/Thursday. While it isn't an aerial, I'm about as excited as when we had our kids...

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    Tower 7 is a 2005 Pierce Aerialscope mounted on a Dash chassis.

    Powered by a Cummins ISM450, the apparatus runs everything (full aerial ops, generator, etc.) at merely 900RPM, nearly half of some companies high idle speeds. That said, not only is it a sharp rig, its whisper quiet.

    Its bright too. While there are only 10 scene lights on this rig (which isnt much these days), there are twice as many underbody lights (illuminating the ground immediately around the truck). The result is excellent lighting 360 degrees around the truck.

    The device was completely rebuilt. New controllers were installed, new console built. Joystick was replaced in the bucket with another joystick (same thing - just new).

    You can go from coming to a stop (applying parking brake) to flying the aerial in 45 seconds.

    Feel free to post questions about the rig, I'll try to answer them as I can.

    Jonathan Buchanan
    Chief Engineer
    Friendship Fire Company, Birdsboro PA

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    Very nice.

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    Thumbs up

    This is most likely the only Pierce / AerialScope. Sweet !!
    Best of luck with it.

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    Awesome rig! Look forward to seeing pics of it in service. I've only seen one other Pierce/Scope refurb (a 95ft I believe) and it's a cool combination. The other is around the Baltimore/DC area I believe... Bowie Tower 39

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    Quote Originally Posted by berkut
    Awesome rig! Look forward to seeing pics of it in service. I've only seen one other Pierce/Scope refurb (a 95ft I believe) and it's a cool combination. The other is around the Baltimore/DC area I believe... Bowie Tower 39
    Bowie Tower 39 is indeed what we have dubbed a "Piercescope." It does not have the updated setup controls or the updated hydraulics, but an Aerialscope on a Pierce chassis none the less.

    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctxffman
    This is most likely the only Pierce / AerialScope. Sweet !!
    Best of luck with it.

    It is actually the third one to be built. Bowie MD has one as Jon mentioned and there is also one out west, I think in Oregon.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

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    Boise, Idaho has one.

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    There is yet another one (whos name I always forget) mounted on a Pierce chassis, however this is the first one they have completely rebuilt. Every cylinder, every check valve, every controller was ripped off and replaced. The accumulator system is gone in favor of a large pump that can actually run all 3 directions at once (proper multitasking). The best thing about this truck? It idles at just 900 RPM. Just high enough to make the Cummins ISM purr but not high enough to make it whistle. More departments should try to make aerials that run quiet!

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    Hey, speaking of Aerialscopes, this is an oldie but unique. I don't mean to steal a thread and your trucks is SHARP wish we had something like that in our neck 'o the woods. Anywho, check this scope out.

    http://www.emergencyrigs.net/viewpho...=159&Size=med_
    Firefighter/EMT-B
    IACOJ

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    That is an extremely rare one with a pump. Wonder how it swam across the Pacific to get to New Zealand!
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

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    Question Mack/Baker Aerialscope Remount Cost ?

    My department has a 1974/1985 Mack Aerialscope 75' on a single rear axle, The platform & boom work great without any problems other than some rust and a cable/pully repair. The mack chassis is over 30 years old and is starting to need a clutch and trans work soon. we operate on a limited capital yearly Budget and would like to keep the cost of a remount as low as possible. I would like to find out from other departments the total remount cost$ of the following : Seagrave , Pierce Arrow XT , Spartan Chassis from Three venders. The boom was refurbed by Baker and we would like to replace the fire body & Chassis cab only.

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    Our cost is slightly over $550,000 but that includes a total refurb of the boom, etc.. Total new would have been somewhere around $1.1 million

    If you don't want to spend that much we still have the 1979/90 chassis available and sitting at Pierce!
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

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    NewJerseyFFII,

    You talk about cable/pulley repairs - I feel obligated to point out that an Aerialscope of any age has no cables or pullys (one of the nice advantages of it). Everything is done via hydraulics.

    The 550 for our truck included (big time) hydraulic upgrades, which I would surely recommend.

    The cost from Seagrave will be around $700,000, Pierce's price will not change much if you switch to an Arrow chassis (which I have NO IDEA why you would want to), and the Spartan Chassis can be used by Advantage for probably around 410,000.

    Its worth noting that on a 12 year loan, I can't imagine your payments being much higher than 40,000 assuming you can scrape together a down payment...

    Jon

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    Not being a wise*ss, but could he have been referring to a cable/pulley repair involving an electrical reel powering the bucket?

    I've always been intrigued by going the the refurbished 'Scope route, especially considering cost. Then the argument comes up, "we need a climbing ladder," "we need a quint," etc. To be honest - we don't have a ladder at all, and probably wouldn't staff a straight aerial device (no pump) as we should (we're volunteer). Our previous aerial ended up a garage queen later in its life, which was a crying shame, due to getting the engine in that station out first. Had it been used more often at the end, we'd probably have a new replacement for it sitting in its place now.

    I'll say it again, beautiful truck. I don't know what kind of work Advantage does, but we run Spartans so going that route wouldn't be an issue. $410K for a more or less new aerial, especially a tower ladder - is a bargain.

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    Thumbs up

    The only problem with the Aerialscope was a " Electrical Cable/Pully " reel for the platform joy stick control panel ! The Pierce Arrow XT has less plastic on the dash board and is a hard wired chassis cab without a multiplex electrical system, would be the only reason for buying a Arrow XT and not the "Dash ".The Birdsboro aerialscope is a great looking rig! It would be nice to have $ 550,000 in our capital appropriations fund to purchase a truck now. First there must be a special ballot question on the fire districts elections in feb 2006 for voters approval to purchase a truck , and the total amount of $$ will be required to be raised through bonds or bond anticipation notes . we are operated by our own " board of fire commissioners and not by the township . also what ( Spartan Chassis ) is being used on most of the Aerialscope remounts done by Seagrave or Advantage !

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    Default Reels and Steals and Smeals

    Spartan's Gladiator chassis fits the Aerialscope like a glove. They (Spartan) actually make an Aerialscope prep package. Seagrave can build on any of their chassis (I think).

    As far as the Arrow Chassis' electrical system (being VERY HONEST) the only reason you wouldn't want multiplexing is that you dont understand it. People use excuses like "we need to be able to service our own truck" to buy hardwired chassis, but in reality the multiplexing makes electrical troubleshooting a lot easier..... I can honestly say as an engineer in a small fire company, I used to hate the stuff and now that I have been taught how it works and how it can help me I really appreciate it. Never see another 'traditionally wired' truck in this barn!

    Regarding the "pulley/reel" that operates the upper controllers.... yes the collector reels have been noted to be sealed poorly and take on corrosion inside, but all you have to do is remove the cover and clean the brushes/contacts and everything works great again. If it doesn't rewind, you can tighten the tension on the cable reel and if that doesnt work rewind rebuild kits for even the oldest ones are still available (trust me - we just bought one for a loaner scope in the barn)... Unfortunately most people are unaware just how easy this is....

    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefeng7
    The cost from Seagrave will be around $700,000, Pierce's price will not change much if you switch to an Arrow chassis (which I have NO IDEA why you would want to)

    What if you want a KISS truck with the big drivetrain without all the Quantum/Dash/Lance gizmos and gadgets?
    Last edited by BVFD1983; 10-15-2005 at 03:04 PM.
    FTM - PTB

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    BVFD,

    Birdsboro's Pierce has no gadgets and gizmos. The gadgets/gizmos category includes A/C, remote nozzles, multiplexed aerial, electrically controlled intakes, rollover protection, duplicate membrane switches, oversized generator, etc.

    The ONLY option on the truck that would be feasible to remove would be the Tak-4 front suspension and if you drive a truck with it, you'll see why its worth the money.

    If you are really interested in saving money, prepay the truck. They'll knock your contract price down $10,000.

    Jon

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    Our last two trucks were specifically not multiplexed because our apparatus guy is a lot more comfortable with chasing gremlins with the "old style" electrical schematic approach. To be perfectly honest, the salesman didn't do a very good job selling it, because to us - he basically described it as a labor savings for the builder that we pay extra for. Tie in the fact that our mechanic (a regional mechanic that handles multiple departments) has had fits with some multiplexing systems, and we ultimately steered clear.

    I'm not saying it isn't a viable solution, or not even a better way to go. To be honest, I had other priorities on these rigs, and if the multiplex had to go to get something else, I didn't argue for it.

    There's a used Aerialscope sitting on a lot near Madison, WI - I can just see that boom sitting on a nice shiny Spartan chassis in one of our stations, then I wake up and realize it won't happen. It's a nice dream though. I honestly agree that we can't really justify one at this point, so I'm not slamming my department over it - don't get me wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefeng7
    BVFD,

    Birdsboro's Pierce has no gadgets and gizmos. The gadgets/gizmos category includes A/C, remote nozzles, multiplexed aerial, electrically controlled intakes, rollover protection, duplicate membrane switches, oversized generator, etc.

    Jon
    Uhhhhh, how is rollover protection a gadget or gizmo? It's a SAFETY feature for crying out loud. Oversized generator versus one that is too small? That seems to be common sense. Air conditioning? I'd like to think that the members could ride comfortably on a 100 degree day, when the humidity is nasty too...
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
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    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    Oh, I forgot that Command Zone is not a gizmo or a gadget... I bet the Arrow's plain jane interior is cheaper too.

    Anywas... I was simply stating why someone would want an Arrow over a Dash...
    Last edited by BVFD1983; 10-15-2005 at 06:16 PM.
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    Question Rebuilt Aerialscope VS New Stick

    At our last fire apparatus committee meeting a few of the " Big Brains " came up with a idea of selling the 1974/1985 Mack Aerialscope putting it out for bid with a minimum price of $ 30,000 . They would like to purchase a 75' - 105 ' brand new aerial ladder with a 1500 gpm waterway & remote nozzle , without a fire pump or tank because we have two 1500 gpm pumpers for supply. I would rather be standing in a scope bucket at 3:00 am on a cold winter morning than hanging on to the end of a ladder. they think that spending $550,000 on a new stick that will be around for the next 20- 25 years will be a good selling point to the voters at the fire district elections in feb 2006 !

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