Color Justification

[hersheyaztec]

If there is a previous thread on this, please point the way.

"Many large departments that have tried bright colors over the years have returned to red."

Our company wants change colors after 2 decades of the obnoxious Lime-green. The township supervisors include a former chief who was involved in the switch to lime based on the Solomon study of Dallas. Are there follow-up studies to verify the findings?

NFPA 1901 does not specify a color but does have language about % of reflective material.

Im not looking for your opinion on color a fire apparatus should be, but justification/studies to present before a township meeting. Is the "scientific study" gonna force us to keep Lime? Please point me in the right direction.

[chiefwaterloofd]

Bozz - chime in on this one..... is Safety Black the safest??? Anyway, we have both colors and although we have nothing as far as documentation, we have noticed really no difference in the colors. More important in my eyes are things like lighting, warning systems and overall - apparatus placement. We have had the lime color on most of our trucks for over 20 years....but now have almost half the fleet back to red. Our ambulances are both turquoise......with enough lighting for 2 rigs on each.

good luck with your search

[bwspeer]

RED is for fire truck

[lvwrench]

Don't know of too many studies on this subject but do know that we had red, then white and now back to red while the county is the lime green, and another city is white with red and so is another city here. Do the people really get out of the way for the color, let alone for lights and sirens? Make the truck sunshine yellow, stick a thousand lights on it and crank all the sirens you want and people still won't notice with their windows up and boom stereos on along with the A/C or heater fan. As a kid I knew fire trucks were red but who knows waht people today would say.

[IronsMan53]

Here's an internal study from a city that went through the same thing that you're doing:
http://sunnyvale.ca.gov/reports/1997-08/97-350.htm

BTW, you wouldn't be talking about Hershey's rigs that are yellow with white doors would you?

[hersheyaztec]

"BTW, you wouldn't be talking about Hershey's rigs that are yellow with white doors would you?"

Those are the ones we are looking at changing, but if I can't convince the township, the new rig will likely be lime to match the old.

I believe the idea of multiple colors of apparatus from the same firehouse is what the real issue is.

[Bones42]

Personally speaking, if the color of your truck is the biggest issue you have to deal with, your either missing the bigger things or your very lucky.

[hersheyaztec]

RED is for fire truck

I agree, now help me convince those paying for the new rig to make it so, when they were told 20 years ago that lime green was best.

[fdmhbozz]

Whoa, I got called out.

Statistically, black fire apparatus have been involved in fewer accidents than their red or green counterparts, simply because there are fewer.

And speaking of lime green, FDMH used to have one of the first two trucks ever painted in that color.

[Fire304]

If I'm not mistaken, that orriginal study was based on color alone w/o the use of reflective materials. Back in the "dark ages" (pun intended) where the only reflectors were DOT corner markers red is just as bad as black on a dark night. Lighter colors such as white are better in the dark, but these blend in with other backgrounds, especially snow. Enter slime-lime, a color that is not found in nature, to both be light colored and stand out against all backgrounds.

Today's trucks are required to have significant reflective and there's nothing saying you can't put on more. With reflective material available in a wide range of colors you could have an all black truck which is 100% reflective! And as previously pointed out, NFPA requires the use of reflectives and says nothing about color.

Good luck getting back to the proper color!

[Box2565]

Can anyone direct me to a copy of any study that was made regarding the color of apparatus? In the link above to the Sunnyvale web site it states "During the early 1970's national research was conducted to identify factors in the prevention of traffic accidents involving fire apparatus." What research is being referred to?

Lime green paint as a "safety" factor was introduced by the Ward LaFrance company when they were on the verge of bankruptcy in the early 1970's. This was an advertising gimmick, not a scientifically studied subject. For a short while after the introduction of this "improvement" for apparatus, sales at WLF took off. The company still ended up going bankrupt but the seed had been planted and the fire service bought the idea.

The eye doctor that WLF hired to prove their point simply based his conclusions on the recognition of colors that the eye can see in various lighting conditions. There were no scientific studies that I am aware of that showed fire apparatus was easier to detect when painted a given color. Never forget that this idea was a product of the sales department of a failed company.

Like others have stated in this thread, if you can't tell that a piece of fire apparatus is on the road with all of the warning devices used today, I don't think it matters what color the vehicle is.

[fdmhbozz]

Yes, slime lime was an advertising gimmick. The old WLF that we had was bought back by WLF, painted, and toured the country.

[Eno821]

Why fire trucks are red:

Fire trucks have 6 wheels, and carry 6 ffs.
6 and 6 are 12.
There are 12" in a foot, and rulers are a foot long.
Queen Elizabeth is a ruler, and also one of the largest ships that sails the seven seas.
Seas have fish
And fish have fins.
The Fins fought the Russians in WW2.
Russians are known as Red.
Fire trucks are ALWAYS "Rush'in"
And that's why fire trucks are red.

[Smoke20286]

Its Colour you American philistines!

[donethat]

OH! It's the King's English EH!

Two english speaking countries seperated by a common language!

[truckbuilder28]

I have seen every color imaginable being put on a firetruck. There has been more than a few times I have shook my head and thought "what were these people thinking?" It almost seems like they went down to the local preschool and asked the kids what color they like the best! My personal favorite (for ugliness) is the county truck orange. But sometimes even an ugly color can be made to look decent with a cool graphic design. Red is still the best.


Stay safe.

[cowtown]

White's cheaper!!

[dmleblanc]

White's cheaper!!

True....go to any big manufacturer who keeps a stock of chassis on the back lot, and they'll be either white or red. Anything else is gonna cost ya.

[Rescue101]

Ahh.....Dwayne,(see above)and your's is WHAT color? Hehe T.C.

[dmleblanc]

Ahh.....Dwayne,(see above)and your's is WHAT color? Hehe T.C.

Yep, that's how I know it's gonna cost ya...... (Don't even get me started about the extra cost of two-tone.......)