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  1. #1
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    Default Ferrara Invader2 Chassis?

    We are looking at a Ferrara rig kinda on the cheap and they said we could have the Intruder2 chassis, which is an HME 1871, and the Invader2, which I have no idea what it is. Same price for either one. The say it is a Spartan, but which model is it? Anyone have the answer?
    Last edited by Crainial; 10-10-2005 at 10:35 AM.


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    They're going to mount them on old, refurbished Seagrave Invader chassis....

    Last edited by npfd801; 10-10-2005 at 01:51 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Nice One

    I hope not
    Last edited by Crainial; 10-10-2005 at 10:35 AM.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    Default

    I changed that first one, because it may have bordered on inappropriate.

    Ahem.

    _____________________
    Lighten' up, Francis....
    Last edited by npfd801; 10-10-2005 at 01:55 PM.

  5. #5
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    The Invader Chassis is or was the HME P2 chassis private labeled for Ferrara. They could be using the Spartan Advantage now in the same way, some trim to make it a Ferrara. Like any manufacture that uses a lot of HMEs and Spartans, both companies will do a program private label chassis for them.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    The Intruder II is Ferrara's re-badged HME. The Invader is what he's asking about, as there has been some confusion from his folks coming back from Ferrara and a pre-construction conference.

    _____________________________
    Lighten' up Francis....
    Last edited by npfd801; 10-10-2005 at 01:58 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801
    The Intruder II is Ferrara's re-badged HME. The Invader is what he's asking about, as there has been some confusion from his folks coming back from Ferrara and a pre-construction conference.


    You would be correct

  8. #8
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    I'm not sure about most of the Ferrara line but I will tell you this:
    If it has anything to do with HME Run! Run far away! They are absolute junk!! Our 1871 chassis has had tons of cab/chassis related electrical issues (the latest was a wiring fire betweenthe headlight switch and oneof the lamp modules. Other issues: wiring harnesses left exposed to road dirt/water, door handles falling off, all the screws holding the door interiors on fall out and need constant (read:weekly) tightening. Cab insulation is inferior to many others as the cab is loud with outside noise. The seatbelts get closed in the door latch mechanism, tearing them.

    Given these types of issues, we've decided and got our City to agree to only buy sole source apparatus. One manufacuter to warranty the cab, chassis, ect. (Yes, we know that no one makes engines, tranny's etc. but they are the point people when some part fails) Try that with your Ferrara Tower: HME cab/chassis, Smeal aerial, Darley pump. Who's responsible when a wire shorts out?

  9. #9
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Let me know how that works out for ya. A warranty is only as good as YOUR attorney.Sole source or no. T.C.

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    Thumbs up

    I was just at Ferrara for 2 days for a pre-con on an Engine and a 77' Quint. I did get to look at both the Intruder2 chassis as well as the Invader Chassis. The Invader will be the chassis on both of our rigs. Spartan out of Charlotte, NC is the manufacturer of the chassis. We left the plant with all questions answered on both chassis'. Feel free to ask any more question about Ferrara, as it is still pretty fresh in my mind.

  11. #11
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    Remember one thing about alot of "raw cabs" out there, they are produced by Cincinnati Truck Cab. HME, E-One (some), Spartan, Sutphen (some) and others that I'm not aware of. But I also hear what you're saying about the guts of the cab from HME. He have a SLe cab, it's love / hate at times. While it is the largest, roomiest, best visibility cab we've ever had...the door trim panel are now held on by fender washers because the plastic has cracked away, and there customer support hasn't always been the best. But overall I'm into buying cost effective apparatus and not paying for a "Brand" if it's not any better. www.truckcab.com

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't care who built it, if whoever holds the purse strings bought a new rig (or rig), its something special. Everyone builds a POS once in a while, so I ignore the badmouthing as much as possible...

    However, having said that - the Invader would be my choice as its a Spartan chassis. Nothing against HME, but every one we've had has been pretty darn good to us. We have no reason to quit using them.

    Smeal Sirius, Rosenbauer Commander, Ferrara Invader II - they're all likely 99% the same chassis with a little different cosmetic treatments. Heck, even Rosenbauer's funky composite cab custom chassis that didn't do so well was all Spartan under the cab.

    Oh, and doesn't Marion build all of Spartan's cabs for them anyway?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crainial
    We are looking at a Ferrara rig kinda on the cheap and they said we could have the Intruder2 chassis, which is an HME 1871, and the Invader2, which I have no idea what it is. Same price for either one. The say it is a Spartan, but which model is it? Anyone have the answer?

    Hmm, this sounds like a person I know (hi Todd).... As SBFD302 and I are on the Same Dept, we are WAY excited about the new rigs and talking with him, the Ferrara people are super to work with. I give kudos to any company that went to the lengths they did to help everyone in LA, employees, First Responders, and Relief workers. I give applause to these fine men and women and am more than proud to be purchasing apparatus from such a class act company! As for the Intruder/Invader I think it is great that you get a choice of HME or Spartan. We have had Spartans for many years, and will have them for many more. If I missed something 302, please add!

  14. #14
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    Another point to think about in the very near future is the new EPA standards for deisel engines. It would be my guess that a few of the sole source manufactures ( Sutphen, Seagrave ) won't have the money to develop new chassis' to meet these standards. Since all HME and Spartan do is make chassis they have no choice but to meet these standards. So what I'm getting at is that in the next few years I think you'll be seeing ALOT of rebadged HME's & Spartans passing for Seagraves, Sutphens, etc...

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    I disagree.... While some re-engineering may need to be done to help cool the new motors if they have greater cooling requirements, I don't think the effort to take care of this will hurt any apparatus chassis manufacturer all that much. They're just going to pass the cost on to you and I anyway...

    I've heard on good authority that Sutphen has much of the engineering already figured out. Isn't Cat already running some motors that meet the new EPA standard?

    The big deal to me? I'd bet a lot of the builders that are "in demand" are going to have some ridiculously long build times right around the "switch."

  16. #16
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    Default Rebadged & New Standards ?

    I belive you might see chassis manufacturers that install radiators that are twice as thick from the normal size for increased cooling capabilities, more air induction, etc...

    I feel that after this being 115 years of continuous ownership in the appararatus industry with four (4) factories all doing well, the Sutphen family should have enough in their piggy bank for the new standards and requirements.

    For one example, they have had their fresh air intakes properly positioned for more years than I have been in the fire service so it is just one more thing they do not have to worry about. It is tough for some to just make this change but I am confident that most everyone will succeed in their endevors since a lot is riding on it.

    Spartan Motors according to the Fire Apparatus Magazine's new article just celibrated a record year. Sutphen has built on Spartan chassis before and if it is a requirement in the future for a department it will probably happen again. They are the heartbeat of a lot of manufacturers who do not build their own chassis, so I am sure they will be a leader in their chosen field with regards to emissions & cooling.

    If you research the Cincinnati cab you will see a few manufactuers utilize the split-tilt cab, there are quite a few departments that require them on every build, I am sure Sutphen, that utilizes some of the split-tilt cabs on Sutphen chassis for customer requirements doesnt hide the fact. Just open the door and look at the id plate. Should not be nothing to hide

    If one studies the Caterpillar engines they will find that CAT has went to great lengths to postion themselfs as the leader for the new emissions and cooling issues. I know in Illinois departments like their CAT engines. Partly because CAT is an industry leader & large employer, but in my opinion they are a leader due to their R & D division which is top notch.

    My feeling is that most manufacturers do not try to build substandard apparatus, some are better than others, some are favored by the masses, but we all need to realize that every manufacturer has people that work hard every day to support their families no matter how big or small the manufacturer would be in the USA. So Iam sure they are all trying to meet future issues ahead.

    At least if your apparatus fails or has a issue with it we usually see the problem on Firehouse before the dealer is notified. Should also feel good that we can find where the 5000 fire trucks per year are built pretty quickly. Even thought the dollar figures are a big difference, the next time your TV, VCR, etc.. goes out or has an issue, just try and find where most are made ?


    This is my opinion and do not proclaim to know it all, just trying to one up 801.

  17. #17
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM
    Given these types of issues, we've decided and got our City to agree to only buy sole source apparatus. One manufacuter to warranty the cab, chassis, ect. (Yes, we know that no one makes engines, tranny's etc. but they are the point people when some part fails) Try that with your Ferrara Tower: HME cab/chassis, Smeal aerial, Darley pump. Who's responsible when a wire shorts out?

    "Single source" is the biggest maketing gimmick in the industry today IMHO. We have a 2003 Ferrara Inferno 77' quint. We had a small glitch with the aerial, some sensor went bad. Called our rep, and a repair man from Smeal was at our station the next afternoon fixing it... Couldn't get a more smooth seamelss response. As with ALL trucks built today it's funny how one little switch or sensor can cause a headache, we've had nothing but good luck with our rig. Single source or whatever it all comes down to your local rep and his relationship with his respective manufactuer.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    So Ed has to come in here and write a book when I do two sentences. Sheesh. At least I don't think I said anything horribly incorrect...

    Those pesky industry insiders...

  19. #19
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    Default Horribly Incorrect ?

    Nope, usually you are on the mark and do your homework ! By the way, NPFD new 4 wheeler looks real sharp. Did you put Mickey Thompson mudders on it ?

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
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    12" lift kit, air lockers, Super Swampers for tires, and a gun rack in the back window.

    I'm currently looking for a source for chrome naked lady mudflaps, but our local truck stop didn't have any in stock.

    I'll bet we're going to get a lot of comments regarding the rig, some not so positive, but if it does half of what we expect it will - it'll be a success.

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