1. #1
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    Default You Make the Call: Van Fire

    You a called out to a Van on fire. Its a commercial van:

    - No windows on rear of van
    - Van says "Layon Flooring Company", driver says there is lots of tools, fooring materials, paint, and other chemicals in 5 gallon containers in the rear part of the van.
    - Heavily involved with fire coming from engine compartment, top and bottom and fire in the cab coming from passenger windows. Front windshild is partial intact.
    - Wind is blowing from the front of the van to the back.
    - There is a parked car 4-5 feet form the passenger side of the van which is starting to discolor.

    You have 1 engin, 4 firefighter, 1000 gallons in the tank.

    You make the call.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    I am guessing this is in the middle of a city? If so I would try to find a plug in case I needed more water. Other wise I would have my guys pack up, pull a preconnect and would start by getting water in the passenger compartment via the front windsheild. Might have to break a side window to get more access to the area.

    I would have my guys start on the side of the vehicle closest to the parked cars that way they can protect the exposures. Then after they have it relativley knocked down I would pop the engine compartment and spray it down real good. While the hose crew is working the engine over real good would pop the back and see if there was any extension to that part and start removing some of the equipment out of the back. Overhaul the passanger compartment and then wait for the police and tow truck company.
    Firefighter/EMT-B
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    Yes, in a city.

    Hydrant in reach.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    My call is that you watched the show about BFD last night and you want to tacitly criticize the way they fought the fire.

    How'd I do?

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    Boston? On tape?? As i watched, it sure seemed like a great argument for air packs. Pretty toxic smoke, and lots of it.
    Just the opinion of a vollie who wants to breathe without an O2 tank in the future.
    earl

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    Full PPE including SCBA, pull two lines from an upwind position. One to cover the car with foam and keep it cooled, the other to knock down active flames in the van. One man in to make access to the engine compartment once flames are down begin to salvage whatever you can from rear of van to reduce the threat of further explosion or flare up. Finish up with normal search and knock down of any hotspots behind panels and dash and in seats followed by a good inspection before clearing scene.

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    Samson, are you alluding to a certain van fire that you saw on television last night?

    If so, I would've done the same thing they did. Contain the fire in the passenger compartment then worry about the engine compartment fire. The exposure is already damaged and the best way to keep from damaging it more is to put out the fire that is causing the damage.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    George, I also see some kind-of ulterior motive going on here with Samson.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    My call is that you watched the show about BFD last night and you want to tacitly criticize the way they fought the fire.

    How'd I do?

    Ding Ding Ding I think we have a winner here folks !
    ******=================
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    ------GOD BLESS AMERICA ! ------

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    Ignoring the reference to the Boston fire on the tube last night, I'd think this kind of fire would be a good case for the use of one of our piercing nozzles. Pull our trash line perhaps to get the fire in the engine compartment and such, then switch to the piercing nozzle to get in the van compartment. While I know we'd have to get in there eventually, we could darken in down with the water from the piercing nozzle.

    Realistically though, we'd probably just hit it with the trash line and tank water. 1000 gallons goes a long way. I can't remember a time I've seen our piercing nozzles used in anger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    My call is that you watched the show about BFD last night and you want to tacitly criticize the way they fought the fire.

    How'd I do?

    George,
    My thought exactly.
    Thanks for calling him out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    My call is that you watched the show about BFD last night and you want to tacitly criticize the way they fought the fire.

    How'd I do?

    Dangit George, you always beat me to it!! Someone is taking the show way to seriously!
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    My son's dorm is about 100 feet from that firehouse. I have got to find out which dorm had the NG explosion.

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    As soon as I posted I remembered the Boston fire last night. Then it hit me, Im walking into something here. I mean I took the bait, hook, line and sinker. But anywho, that is how my department does it. I don't care how anyone else does things, you should do them the way your department says you should unless you feel your safety is compromised then try to stay as close to dept. regulations as possible while maintaining safety, i.e. airpacks on car fires.
    Firefighter/EMT-B
    IACOJ

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    Hmm I missed the episode, but did record it.

    But to answer the question: lots and lots of foam from downwind, into the cab. The engine compt will follow after the initial knock-down. Also crews will be BA'd before attacking. SOP for Malahat VFD.

    Having the hydrant close by is nice, but likely we'd never think of it till later because we dont have hydrants in our district. Isn't "hydrant" spelled "3kGal T-A-N-K-E-R?"
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    I missed last night's episode, nodded off....

    Went to watch the 2nd showing at 11... caught the first minute or two... nodded off and woke up at 1:30 AM on the couch....

    Okay...van fire..

    The van is or will be a total loss, as most vehicle fires are... no sense in endangering anyone by doing an aggressive attack on it, unless life or a structure is threatened.

    Take a hydrant, pull a preconnect line to protect the exposure, hit the van fire with a big line w/ a smoothbore from a distance, use hydraulic overhaul to ensure that the fire is out.

    Makeup and go home!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    My call is that you watched the show about BFD last night and you want to tacitly criticize the way they fought the fire.

    How'd I do?
    You were 50% on that one. Its OK George, nobody is perfect.

    Yes, I saw that show, had it TIVOed and watched it this moring as I rode my exercise bike.

    No, I do not want to "tacticaly criticize". If I wanted to do that I would have titled the thread "BFD Likes to Sniff Paint Smoke".

    I want to hear how different folks from across the country would handle such a fire. We would do it different them most folks I would imagine.

    Have a nice day.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    LOL, more posts and comments acusing me of trying to blacken the eye of BFD then there are discussing the topic at hand.

    To be expected for sure, welcome of FH.com forum.

    George, in your firefighting experience how would you have handled the fire?

    In any case such TV broadcasted fires give us all a example and a common event to dicuss and contrast styles to. I am not pointing fingers at anybody.

    If you have a better way of discussing these things then please, go ahead and start the thread!

    In regards to tactics. If you feel that your system is the end all be all then good for you! I just hope you are doing things safely. Safety First boys and girls, thats all I ask for.

    Is that unreasonable?

    Our attack

    Full PPE/SCBA. This is SOP for a number of reasons. First and foremost is that you never know whats going to be in a vehicle. We have had meth labs in vehicles. A large van like that could hold a hell of a huge lab. Expect the worst, hope for the best.

    Park the engine up hill and up wind if at all possible.

    Piercing nozzles are mentiond, thats what we would use.

    Pump man at the engine, 2 man approach team, one with piercing nozzle and one with tool, probly Denver Irons. One on overwatch with a handline at ready and protecting the exposure.

    Piercing nozzle team would appraoch from the divers side so they have an escape route open if something goes boom or if liquid fire of whatever type escapes the vehicle. I just shudder at the thought of ending up standing in a 20 gallon puddle of burning gasoline.

    Piecre the side of the van high up on the side. Apply lots of foam. Cool the interior/cab in other needed locations with both nozzles.

    Next peirce the hood from the sides. Avoid standing near any possible locations of gas shocks, bumpr or hood openers.

    Once knocked down open the van up (hood and doors) and overhaul with handline and long tools and keep on air.

    Thats the safest way we have come up with to do this type of thing. We dont want any nasty surprises. Keeping the doors closed and pumping full of foam keeps a layer of steel between you and whatever might be in the vehicle.

    Avoid the smoke as much as possible if you are not on air, but its far better to be on air.

    Do everything you can to avoid exposing yourself to possible flaming liquid release. 5-20 gallons of burning gasoline or paint will ruin your day and your good looks. Especialy if you are not in full battle mode with all PPE in place.

    Now feel free to rip this all apart and correct my backwards way of doing things! LOL, thats what I expect, its the nature of the forum after all!

    If you dont want critisism, dont post!
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Ok, heres what I would do, pull a preconnect, attack from the exposure side in full turnouts&scba. probably have the driver go hook a supply line to the hydrant. officer does the IC and safety part. That is with 4 people on the first out appratus. We run with only 2 on first due engine.

    So with that both would pack up and squirt water until second in unit arrives. Attack would come again from the exposure side with a 1.75'' fog nozzle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    My son's dorm is about 100 feet from that firehouse. I have got to find out which dorm had the NG explosion.
    Huh? What explosion? Was it in the show last night? Missed it if it was...

    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamsonFCDES
    Huh? What explosion? Was it in the show last night? Missed it if it was...

    Yes it was.

    Are we going to have a thread on how each of us would handle that call too???
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Let me take a shot at this as someone who was there.

    When we arrived on scene the van was pretty much opened up, drivers , passenger , rear doors and windows blown out.Fire was in the engine and drivers compartment. There was no fire in the rear of the van but the engine hit it anyway just in case. Engine co. ran 100' of preconnected 1 3/4" nusance line. Truck co. removed the floor guys stuff from the rear of the van. Engine co. then knocked down the fire in the driver compartment and also on the parked car which we weren't worried about.Paint blistered so they probably got a nice new paint job. Truck co. overhauled seats and dash. Engine then proceeded to knock down the fire in the engine area. Once the flames are knocked down we opened the hood. I had a younger firefighter so I had him use the metal saw ( a learning experience). As car fire go this was fairly routine.
    We absolutely should have been wearing SCBA and we will from now on.

    Our engine co. don't usually hook up to hydrants at car fires, although the pump operator will scope out the closest one just in case. The tank is enough to put them out. Not all our engine co. are foam equiped.

    This was a busy street in the Back Bay so you can't always be choosey about positioning the piece(aparatus).

    At the risk of sounding ignorant I don't have a clue what a piercing nozzle is or for that matter what the Denver Irons are. So I couldn't tell you if they would have helped or not.

    Just so you know the TV shows only so a small part of what we do and it's not always in sequence.

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    Thanks 26 Its always good to hear from "The Guy on The Street". We've all done some critique about how some of the things that were recorded for TV and some of it make a few of us scratch our collective heads.

    I got to watch a bit of the beginning but like Capt G, I too dozed off ......
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    George:

    The explosion was in a Northeastern University dorm located on The Fenway around the 100-200 block not sure of the exact number. Its probably less than a mile from our quarters.

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    No problem with someone writing a critique. Everyone has there own way of doing things.What works for one department might not for another. I just wish everyone was up front about where they work, time on the job ,etc.

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