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  1. #41
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    An ambitious person with education has never failed in this country.
    And how do you know this? Another platitude with no way to determine its validity.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."


  2. #42
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaterbryVTfire
    I'll keep stirring this a bit longer...Hey its what I do!

    But here is a simple equation..

    Liberals(see Democrats)= Zealot
    Like all conservative talking points this one is nothing more than mythology. I can say safely in our state it is conservatives who constantly attack the institutions that will give people with ambition and without means the opportunity to compete in the work force. Here in CA it is the conservatives who are constantly carping about charging ever higher fees for higher education that would in effect give less opportunity for those from lower socio economic class backgrounds.

    Also. Every conservative (or their ancestors) I've ever met who talks about fairness and egality never had to worry about being on the wrong side of slavery, segregation, suffrage or any of the other social ills that has afflicted our nation during the course of its history.


    And here in OC, the fire service is a particular target of the conservative media as employing folks who are overpaid and overbenefitted. They would filet out firefighters in a heartbeat given the chance. In the course of their writings during the years I've worked here they have made it clear the only thing they hate more than firefighters employed as a public employee are unions. So we are hit with a double whammy of blind hatred.

    You could be ambitious and well educated and will get tossed in front of the bus.

    Turn off the AM hate radio talk shows.
    Last edited by scfire86; 01-09-2006 at 09:04 PM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  3. #43
    MembersZone Subscriber WaterbryVTfire's Avatar
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    Typical liberal, throw out some big words and fancy talk, and fool the lower class of voters into thinking that you actually care about them!

    Do you know why Bush won the last election in such an overwhelming manner?
    He appeals to the "common man".
    Did you see Kerry out clearing brush on his property? Nope....
    And lets not get started on Kerry's money...ketchup anyone? Who picks the vegetables for all those items they make? GASP!! Undereducated and under paid immigrants I would assume. Where was the outcry from that?

    Did GW stammer and stumble in speeches? Yep...just like most people would in front of a large crowd.

    So, if you want to "beat" the conservatives/republicans, find someone that appeals to the average American. Not a over educated "stuffed shirt".

    (McCain in '08)

  4. #44
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaterbryVTfire
    Typical liberal, throw out some big words and fancy talk, and fool the lower class of voters into thinking that you actually care about them!
    Sorry if you believe words with more than two syllables are BIG.


    Quote Originally Posted by WaterbryVTfire
    Do you know why Bush won the last election in such an overwhelming manner?

    Bush won the popular vote by a whopping 2.5%. Given how you believe that figure is overwhelming, then Clinton's victories are landslides.

    Quote Originally Posted by WaterbryVTfire
    He appeals to the "common man".
    Like which one's? Bush is the son and grandson of billionaires. Any "common man" who believes Bush thinks about them is a fool.


    Quote Originally Posted by WaterbryVTfire
    Did you see Kerry out clearing brush on his property? Nope....
    And lets not get started on Kerry's money...ketchup anyone? Who picks the vegetables for all those items they make? GASP!! Undereducated and under paid immigrants I would assume. Where was the outcry from that?
    And how do you know this? Did you get another email in your Inbox?


    Quote Originally Posted by WaterbryVTfire
    Did GW stammer and stumble in speeches? Yep...just like most people would in front of a large crowd.
    I don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by WaterbryVTfire
    So, if you want to "beat" the conservatives/republicans, find someone that appeals to the average American. Not a over educated "stuffed shirt".

    (McCain in '08)
    God forbid we elect a President who is well educated and acts accordingly. Conservatives continually blast away at the public school system then deride someone who actually bothered to learn and use the english language correctly.

    No wonder they are walking disasters.

    And remember.....reading....it's FUNdamental.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    I'll agree with you for the most part, but to use my example of the Cuban Missle Crisis...I don't think that Kennedy would have done us much of a favor if he had fired off a few nukes to prove a point instead of talking that one out.
    The US was very lucky with that, as history shows us. The Cubans had battlefied nukes on the beaches(fortunately in control of the Russians), had they used them the world would be much different today.
    IACOJ Lt-Eng32ine

  6. #46
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    Default Dereliction of Duty by Lt Col Robert Patterson

    This is a quick and good read. It really says alot about Clinton. This comes form a military officer, not some political hack. That being said, I am a member of the vast right wing conspiracy!
    IACOJ Lt-Eng32ine

  7. #47
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFCLTE32
    This is a quick and good read. It really says alot about Clinton. This comes form a military officer, not some political hack. That being said, I am a member of the vast right wing conspiracy!
    I read it. It is baloney. Interesting how no one substantiates any of his claims.

    I've read articles just as critical of Bush and Cheney and I give them all the credibility they deserve....which is none.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  8. #48
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    I grew up poor. Under the poverty line. I did everything in my life, no governmental help beyond the GI Bill. I still would have gone to college to get 2 AS, a BS, and now my MHSc. I did it. People told me along the way that I couldn't do it. Not a dime, not a single cent came from any member of my family.

    There SC, you have met a conservative that lived on the wrong side of "social ills." The only thing that I will say made it easier was PERHAPS my skin color, but even then I only give a very little leeway. Especially when I see black trauma surgeons working with me in the hospital. When I see poor people succeed and get out of the ghetto.

    While many government programs are noble and great ideas, the federal government is not the appropriate place to fund or employ those programs.


    And public schools are deplorable. It is always a scream about money. Money this, more money for that. We need this, we need that. I have to say this: when you turn out a quality product, I will give you money. The public schools in the United States are a disgrace. I will bash them every chance that I get because I expect good results from my money and since I pay my local, state, and federal taxes and see the pathetic result that schools turn out from an educational standpoint I want my money's worth.


    And while I may not support the current President on much any longer, do you really think that any politician really, truly cares about you?
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  9. #49
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    I grew up poor. Under the poverty line. I did everything in my life, no governmental help beyond the GI Bill. I still would have gone to college to get 2 AS, a BS, and now my MHSc. I did it. People told me along the way that I couldn't do it. Not a dime, not a single cent came from any member of my family.

    There SC, you have met a conservative that lived on the wrong side of "social ills." The only thing that I will say made it easier was PERHAPS my skin color, but even then I only give a very little leeway. Especially when I see black trauma surgeons working with me in the hospital. When I see poor people succeed and get out of the ghetto.

    While many government programs are noble and great ideas, the federal government is not the appropriate place to fund or employ those programs.


    And public schools are deplorable. It is always a scream about money. Money this, more money for that. We need this, we need that. I have to say this: when you turn out a quality product, I will give you money. The public schools in the United States are a disgrace. I will bash them every chance that I get because I expect good results from my money and since I pay my local, state, and federal taxes and see the pathetic result that schools turn out from an educational standpoint I want my money's worth.


    And while I may not support the current President on much any longer, do you really think that any politician really, truly cares about you?
    Well Sharkie. The conservatives here in OC would do away with the GI Bill. Right after they do away with the public education that enabled to at least gain rudimentary learning skills. Irrespective of your skin color.

    And NO. I stopped believing any politician truly cares. But I wasn't the one claiming one did because he does the yardwork.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  10. #50
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86
    Well Sharkie. The conservatives here in OC would do away with the GI Bill. Right after they do away with the public education that enabled to at least gain rudimentary learning skills. Irrespective of your skin color.

    And NO. I stopped believing any politician truly cares. But I wasn't the one claiming one did because he does the yardwork.
    You are right about the yardwork comment. But I have to say that John Kerry has always come off as quite snotty and aloof. I live in Massachusetts for probably 26 of my 31 years and he has always seemed that way. Bush I can at least relate to a bit more, even if he did have a silver spoon in his mouth. Can't explain it, maybe it is just appearances.


    I would fight anyone on the GI Bill. It is a way of helping out Warriors for their service and commitment to this country.

    Personally, I think that the teacher's unions and public schools in general could do well to have a bit of competition to produce a good student that is well prepared for the world. Back in Massachusetts the Democrats (who control both houses of legislature) and the teachers unions fight tooth and nail agains "Charter Schools" which more and more parents are happier with than the public schools and feel are better preparing their children.

    Not that I want children, but if we have them I have already told my wife that they will not go to a public school. This belief is even more enforced by sister in law who is an elementary school teacher. Absolutely shameful the stuff she informs me of.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  11. #51
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    You are right about the yardwork comment. But I have to say that John Kerry has always come off as quite snotty and aloof. I live in Massachusetts for probably 26 of my 31 years and he has always seemed that way. Bush I can at least relate to a bit more, even if he did have a silver spoon in his mouth. Can't explain it, maybe it is just appearances.
    I guess I require more than just appearances. Just weird that way.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    I would fight anyone on the GI Bill. It is a way of helping out Warriors for their service and commitment to this country.
    The conservatives in this county don't believe any tax dollars should go to anything that helps another person. They subscribe to the Ayn Rand philosophy. There should be no public investment of any type. Not education, infrastructure, etc.
    Last edited by scfire86; 01-12-2006 at 10:28 AM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  12. #52
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    An ambitious person with education has never failed in this country.
    Ambition and education has gotten many a person put in jail.

    Sometimes it would be preferable for society to have some of the ambitious folks in the world fail.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  13. #53
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86
    Some conservatives in this county don't believe any tax dollars should go to anything that helps another person. They subscribe to the Ayn Rand philosophy. There should be no public investment of any type. Not education, infrastructure, etc.
    fixed
    Most Conservatives inside of our governement want to limit government, not eliminate it. They want the help to be constructive and not just a crutch or band-aid, or even worse an enabler. Kind of the same goals as the Liberals in government, only difference is the philosophy on how to achive the goals. The fight for power unfortunately has allowed the media to portray the differences in the how as differences in the what, and this has rubbed off on many of those involved. Only the fringes have different end goals, the majority on both sides are closer then most realize.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  14. #54
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Only the fringes have different end goals, the majority on both sides are closer then most realize.
    I would agree.

    One of the very few times I have listened to Rush Limbaugh and agreed. His soundbite was (regarding social programs), "it's supposed to be a net, not a hammock".
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  15. #55
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    The last 12 years or so of politics have disgusted me on both sides of the coin.

    It has driven me to disenroll from the Republican party.

    Since both parties are equally full of cheats, scumbags, twits, losers, criminals, philanderers, and all around bottom-feeding scum-sucking whores.

    Neither party cares about the Constitution, rights, liberties, or the little man. I have allowed myself to be shamefully mislead these twits. Live and learn.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  16. #56
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    The last 12 years or so of politics have disgusted me on both sides of the coin.

    It has driven me to disenroll from the Republican party.

    Since both parties are equally full of cheats, scumbags, twits, losers, criminals, philanderers, and all around bottom-feeding scum-sucking whores.

    Neither party cares about the Constitution, rights, liberties, or the little man. I have allowed myself to be shamefully mislead these twits. Live and learn.
    You exagerate a little too much. Not much that you can say bad about the GOP until 8 years ago, not 12. The GOP's return to the majority started out effeciently and on its stated target, but once the original goals were achieved many in the upper levels of power and leadership got "mad" with the power and allowed the power to corrupt them and make them reach for more then their legit share, same thing that brought down the Dems in 1994. Over all the officials represnting us in both parties are honorable and hard working folks, unfortunately they have allowed themselves to be lead by folks with less then statesmen like goals, who have brought the bad media light upon themselves. Don't let the bad apples that floated to the top taint your view of the positive folks that mistakenly held them up.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    Ambition and education has gotten many a person put in jail.

    Sometimes it would be preferable for society to have some of the ambitious folks in the world fail.
    You know what? You're probably right. I would have to add morals to that equation.

  18. #58
    Forum Member DennisTheMenace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    You know what? You're probably right. I would have to add morals to that equation.
    Ethics too, Tom DeLay feels that he was doing the morally correct things with his Texas Political games, the problem is the question about the ethics of the actions in supporting HIS morals.

    Life is tough, best thing anyone can do is try to play fair and nice.
    Be for Peace, but don't be for the Enemy!
    -Big Russ

    Learn from the mistakes of others; you won't live long enough to make them all yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

  19. #59
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DennisTheMenace
    You exagerate a little too much. Not much that you can say bad about the GOP until 8 years ago, not 12. The GOP's return to the majority started out effeciently and on its stated target, but once the original goals were achieved many in the upper levels of power and leadership got "mad" with the power and allowed the power to corrupt them and make them reach for more then their legit share, same thing that brought down the Dems in 1994. Over all the officials represnting us in both parties are honorable and hard working folks, unfortunately they have allowed themselves to be lead by folks with less then statesmen like goals, who have brought the bad media light upon themselves. Don't let the bad apples that floated to the top taint your view of the positive folks that mistakenly held them up.
    No Dennis, they are all bad. For those scumbags that do the dumbest things get all the press. But the others who do not step up to the plate, call a spade a spade, and actually vocally fight for change I have no respect for.

    You are there to represent the individual citizen. No company, fund, group, or whatever. You are there for the PEOPLE of your state. If you either do not represent them, or do not speak out against those who are acting untoward - then you are just as useless.

    To a point, you are right about the GOP, but it has gotten so viscious. The whole Clinton thing was blow overboard. The guy was a twit and I lost what little respect I had for the man, but they let politics get viscious and now both sides are just vile and the individual is lost in the arguments that are battled out by the extreme sides of both parties.

    For this reason, I do not vote for anyone that has been in office for more than 8 years. It used to be 10 but I had to tighten my standards. After 2 terms, you become the problem because you do nothing to stop the problem and you perpetuate the corruption.

    This is how you get twits like Schumer, Kennedy, McCain, Specter, Kerry, Leahy, Rangel, Pelosi, and others. People who are so entrenched in the quest for political power that none of them care for the individual citizens that elect them. Yet we are stuck with millionaires from both parties who do not care.

    I think that from now on I will just write in the person that I think is best qualified and appropriate for office.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    Shark, you bring a tear to my eye, brother. If onyl you could talk some sense into the citizens of the great state of Massachussetts.

    You can't however, paint all politicians with the same broad brush. Here is one example: Curt Weldon.

    Need I say more?

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