KME awarded large contract with LAFD??

[firefightergtp]

I've heard some rumors lately that KME was awarded a large contract with LAFD to build close to 40 engines and 20 aerials. Does anyone have any information on this at all???

[STATION2]

The contract awarded to KME was by the Los Angeles County Fire Department (LACoFD), not Los Angeles City Fire Department (LAFD). LACoFD has been buying KME rigs since around '93-'94. The contract was actually awarded about a month ago. It was for quite a few pumpers but I don't believe the number of aerials was as high as 20. I could be wrong and corrections welcome.

Ask the guys out there how they feel about their KME rigs currently in service. The term "Garage Queen" will come up. And there is atleast 1 LA County/Orange County department that returned their KME pumper to KME, ala Philadelphia, and bought Pierce to replace them. Not bashing KME, just passing on what I have heard and been told.

[firefightergtp]

Thanks for the information. I have heard the same about KME apparatus. We currently have two of them in our department, but from the people who ride on them, I would like to try to steer away!! We're close to going out to bid on a HDRP, and I don't think we want a rig built right after a large order like that. Just another reason to go another direction, thanks for the information!

[Ledebuhr1]

If KME are so unreliable, then why do departments still give them business? Ill bet KME doesent see any reason to improve quality if they are selling units. It would be cheaper in the long run to spend a little more and go with a Pierce and have the mechanics doing basic maintaince, rather than major repairs.

[firefightergtp]

Thanks for posting something that has NOTHING to do with my post what so ever.

PLEASE keep this to the point here.

[Bones42]

then why do departments still give them business?

Low bid. Sometimes you have no other choice.

[npfd801]

Two words:

LOW BID

[firefightergtp]

If you guys want to talk about how KME gets contracts, please start a new thread. I'm speaking about the specific contract with LA county.

[Bones42]

I'm confused, you only want to know if there is a contract with LA or not and that will help you determine to get a KME or not? I'd have to wonder why? 50 apparatus to LA won't make much of a difference on your one order other than there MAY be a delay in getting yours delivered and there is no guarantee for that anyway. You yourself mention the "lack of enthusiasm" by your own department, and you don't consider that information more important than whether another state placed an order?

[firefightergtp]

It's a well known fact that no matter WHAT manufacturer you go with, you want to avoid being one of the first pieces on the line after a mass production of the same truck. Why is this? Simple, the guys on the line are used to making the same truck, for months at a time, and then you throw them a totally difference spec, it takes time for them to get back into the swing of things.

I've done my homework on the different manufacturer's, I know the pro's and con's of every manufacturer we are looking at. We have KME's, pierce's, and sutphen's in our fleet right now. The board of fire commissioners decide what rig we get, not the men who ride on them, so the "lack of enthusiasm" within the ranks has no bearing on what the commissioners buy. As the firematic rep on the committee, I have to make every possible arguement as to why we should "lean" towards a certain manufacturer, and why we should try to steer away from others.

Being the first piece of apparatus off the line after a mass production of a different type of rig, and a delay in build time are two of those arguements that can be made.

[sven73]

From what I've seen, though, the manufacuturer doesn't run all 50 or whatever the number is all at one time. For one thing the department usually can't take delivery of that many units all at one time. I'm no expert but it seems most of the larger contract take place over a couple of years.

[NewJerseyFFII]

One of the fire districts in Woodbridge Township , New Jersey took delivery of a 2005 KME Excel mfd custom 1500 gpm pumper in Feb of this year, so far they have had no " problems " with there apparatus. Also it was not a low bid Apparatus!

[firefightergtp]

Sven - you are right, they usually don't run them all at the same time, but they do usually run 4-5 through at a time. It usually depends on how many chassis of that type they have available. 5 or 50, getting a rig after built after the line has built the few of the same truck usually spells trouble

[sven73]

Okay, I see now what you are saying. Hopefully a reputable builder would be able to plan for 5 units coming down the line without ruining the trucks behind them. However, as the book says, hope is not a strategy!

[firefightergtp]

Hopefully a reputable builder

There's your key word

[LAFDPSO]

As others have mentioned, the LAFD is not currently purchasing fire apparatus built by KME, but our friends at the LACoFD are.

It's a well known fact that no matter WHAT manufacturer you go with, you want to avoid being one of the first pieces on the line after a mass production of the same truck. Why is this? Simple, the guys on the line are used to making the same truck, for months at a time, and then you throw them a totally difference spec, it takes time for them to get back into the swing of things.

I would be inclined to see your sentiments as personal opinion. Something to which you are perfectly entitled. Your opinion above however, is clearly built on assumption.

Being the first piece of apparatus off the line after a mass production of a different type of rig, and a delay in build time are two of those arguements that can be made.

Indeed, just about any argument can be made... that does not however, make it "fact".

Please remember that in the Fire Service, we are so often exposed to rumor, innuendo and fallacy that we may mistakenly take them to heart as our belief. Those with a pure and honest heart are sadly at greatest risk.

Brian

[firefightergtp]

Your opinion above however, is clearly built on assumption.

I'm wouldn't be too sure about this. A neighboring department purchased an ALF HDRP, and have had many problems with it. Even ALF itself contributes alot of the problems to the fact that the rig was first on the line after ALF built 15 pumpers for a large department.

Indeed, just about any argument can be made... that does not however, make it "fact".

That, my friend, is the beauty of argueing, not everything is about fact, but it's about swaying the person(s) you are argueing with to see it you're way.

It is a great tragedy that much information, especially when it comes to fire apparatus manufacturer's, is built on rumor, innuendo and fallacy. One must remember that the manufacturer's themselves utilize and even create these misleading concepts in order to feed us what we want to hear.

As I stated above, I've been working on spec'ing this rig out for over a year now. I have done my homework, I have personally gone to see 8 pieces of apparatus that mirror what we want. I have looked at apparatus from ALF, pierce, KME and four guys. I have gone over the pro's and con's of the different manufacturer's . I've familiarized myself with all of the manufacturer's and I have kept an open mind to them all. I have made my decision on what manufacturer is the best for my company, and now I have to make sure the whole committee sees my view, and why it is the best for not only the company, but the department and the district.

As stated in my first post, I only needed to confirm this information. Thank you all for your help

[mtnfireguy]

Los Angeles County Awards Major Purchase to KME

July 15, 2005




KME Fire Apparatus, North America’s leading manufacturer of truly custom fire apparatus, is pleased to announce that it has been awarded one of the largest apparatus purchases in the history of the fire service by the Los Angeles County Fire Department. The purchase is for 60 pumpers and 7 tractor drawn aerials.



In 1997, KME was awarded a bid by Los Angeles County for 13 aerials and 57 pumpers. With the creation of a consortium that was opened up to all California fire departments, dozens of additional apparatus were purchased under that agreement. A new consortium will created for the 2005 purchase for fire departments nationwide to enable “add-on” purchases through this new agreement.



“Los Angeles County and KME have a long working history dating back to 1988. We are excited to be able to continue to provide custom fire apparatus that helps satisfy the wide range of demands placed upon the fire service in California,” said John J. Kovatch III, president of KME Fire Apparatus. “The creation of the consortium opportunity will also allow numerous fire departments to customize a model that will have unrivaled parts and technical support available to them.”



The pumpers will be built on the KME Predator chassis with a 410hp engine, along with a 500water/25 foam tank, 1500gpm main fire pump, and foam system. The aerials will be 100’ tractor drawn Predator AerialCats with a 470hp engine, 350 gallon water tank, and 1500gpm pump.



The units were sold through KME’s Factory Sales and Service Center located in Ontario, California offering a full range of sales and support including parts, training, testing, maintenance, and repair services. Deliveries will begin to take place in late 2005 and run through 2006.

[firefightergtp]

Thank you very much sir!!

[Rescue101]

Gtp,a simple "search"might lend as much credibility as to why or why not to purchase from KME. Just because LA county buys 'em does not necessarily make them a top contender for your next purchase. In my area they wouldn't be first choice due to our service requirements specified in our spec sheet.But I know of others in your area that have them so perhaps a chat with other "owners" would be beneficial. Be interesting to see how this order holds up. T.C.