RIT responsibilities vs. civilian rescue

[BCmdepas3280]

I guess if we were pulling ceilings next to each other and I fell through the floor, you wouldn't rescue me because you're NOT on the RIT team.

[/COLOR]"

dogg, I be sure to go after the civilian if your ever in trouble...because you would have wanted it that way

[ffsmromstadt13]

U.S. Fire Administration Firefighters Fatalities in the United States in 2004


"2004 was another year of unacceptable loss for the fire service, for firefighters who lost their brothers and sisters in 2004, and-most of all-for families and friends of firefighters who died in 2004.

"The Foundation is working from a list of initiatives that was developed at a large gathering of fire service safety experts"

1. "Define and advocate the need for a cultural change within the fire service relating to safety, incorporating leadership, management, supervision, accountability, and personal responsibility."

When a MAYDAY goes out on the fire ground someone better have a plan. You can not pick up the phone and call 911. YOUR THERE!

SOP's & SOG's are there and we all understand S### happens.
We need to work together and decrease Firefighter Fatalities.

[clancyxdogg]

When a MAYDAY goes out on the fire ground someone better have a plan. You can not pick up the phone and call 911. YOUR THERE!

SOP's & SOG's are there and we all understand S### happens.
We need to work together and decrease Firefighter Fatalities.

Exactly. And in addition to that training and planning, you have to use that thing on your shoulders for something other than a new yorker holder.

Although a couple of guys argued against it, most of the herd on this thread was perfectly willing to take ONE THING they learned in a classroom( RIT teams are not to be used for other fireground ops, only for firefighter rescue) to a ridiculous extreme. Nobody asked the reason a mayday was called, the condition of the firefighter(out of air and lost? fell down some steps?), his location(above the fire? below? next building?) No one wanted to know a thing about the civilian you wanted to abandon, either.

Rescuing civilians isn't "another task"--it's THE TASK that's supposed to be our highest priority, and what we took an oath to do.

That being said, it would have to be pretty desperate circumstances where you couldn't accomplish both rescues in a timely manner. I find it really hard to believe anyone would have to say "Hey, good thing we got Joe out--oh, yeah, there's some old guy still in there." What did you guys do for RIT training, watch "Sophie's Choice"?

[BCmdepas3280]

When you work in an area that has limited manpower the RIT will be doing other tasks Ex ( Outside venting, ladderring the building, and what ever else needs to be done) but the reason they are there is to rescue us !..period.. end of story!

[Frosty42]

Our highest priority is ourselves! In today's age of limited resources, we have to evaluate risk verses reward. The downed civilian has already taken in smoke and heat and at best will require extensive medical treatment. The downed firefighter is the priority for the RIT/RIC crew assigned to make entry and attempt a rescue of that firefighter. Yes, Discipline is the word of the day. It takes discipline to do our jobs. It takes discipline to stand idle on a tarp outside as the assigned RIT/RIC crew. Who would you rather talk to after the fire? The wife and kids of your downed brother or sister?

Speaking of discipline, once the mayday has been declared on the fireground, how disciplined are the firefighters on the scene to continue to do the assigned task at hand before free-lancing sets in and the incident commander is scrambling to regain scene control? Hearing the mayday will already be difficult. Making the decision to write your brother or sister off is another thing.

[kevmar28]

I think it's pretty simple. If I am on a RIT team, then it is my responsibility to go in and rescue my brother and sister firefighters. I will be using a lifeline to find my way in and out and to have as a guideline for additional resources, if necessary. If I come across a victim then I will use that radio looking thingy I carry and let command know what I have found. They will then assign resources to go in, following the guideline, and rescue the civilian. I will then continue to find my downed firefighter. I will do everything in my power to find and rescue my brothers and sisters, just like I pray they would do if I were in their boots. Would I lose any sleep over it? Not a wink.

[SeavilleFire]

The concept of RIT is to ensure that we have a dedicated trained team of firefighters to rescue one of our own in the event of a mayday. This team is placed on standby outside the fire building. We have our own assortment of tools and equipment that other fireground teams can not take. We stand outside the structure and size-up the building, considering possible tactics in the event of a mayday. We are the team that is there to save firefighters. We don't do ventilation, we don't do fire attack, we don't do S&R, we don't handle accountability, etc. This is how important we consider firefighter rescue!

So if we are trained to stand there and be available for firefighters...and no one else...throughout the entire operation, then why when activated and actually needed would we make the only dedicated team unavailable by assisting a civilian? We are a dedicated team for a reason, and that reason is to rescue a downed firefighter.

Radio your location of the civilian to the IC and continue your RIT operations. You have all the RIT equipment (SCBA, TIC, etc)...your responsibility is RIT.

We do what we have to do to save our own, and if that means getting on the radio, leaving the civilian, and continuing to our brother then that's what we have to do. A mayday call is uncommon and a serious emergency. If you think it's equivilant to going back out to get a pike pole or bypassing an injured person on the street while en route to another medical call then you need to get your priorities straight. Let's get serious with the posts here...only an idiot would continue pulling ceiling when their partner goes through the floor. As for the firefighter on the balcony and the civilian inside example...we work smarter, not harder (lol)...ladder the balcony to get the FF off instead of sending a team inside.

[nyckftbl]

This should not even be an issue. How many times have we all heard about FFs waiting too long to make a mayday transmission, or sometimes not even make one at all, for fear of the ribbing they will take at the firehouse, or because they are too stubborn. If another FF is calling a mayday, they are most likely in some SERIOUS sh*t. Finding and removing downed civilians is the job of the truck. Finding a brother who just have the hardest radio transmission of his life is for the RIT (FAST, RIG, RIC, whatever) team, NO MATTER WHAT. Priority if life on the fireground should never differ. 1. Yourself 2. Your brothers 3. Civilians.

Could you live with yourself if you came across a downed civilian in a fire after a mayday was given, and instead of doing you assigned RIT duties, took the civilian out, only to find out that the FF died in that basement, and the civilian who you just dragged out was the mutt who started the fire?

[bummer]

Whatever happened to "Public Service"? Isn't that the job that we are all being paid for, or volunteering to do? It comes with an oath, usually. Did all of us forget?

This should not even be an issue. How many times have we all heard about FFs waiting too long to make a mayday transmission, or sometimes not even make one at all, for fear of the ribbing they will take at the firehouse, or because they are too stubborn. If another FF is calling a mayday, they are most likely in some SERIOUS sh*t. Finding and removing downed civilians is the job of the truck. Finding a brother who just have the hardest radio transmission of his life is for the RIT (FAST, RIG, RIC, whatever) team, NO MATTER WHAT. Priority if life on the fireground should never differ. 1. Yourself 2. Your brothers 3. Civilians.

Could you live with yourself if you came across a downed civilian in a fire after a mayday was given, and instead of doing you assigned RIT duties, took the civilian out, only to find out that the FF died in that basement, and the civilian who you just dragged out was the mutt who started the fire?

[nyckftbl]

I dont even know how to respond to that without getting kicked off the forums....so ill just say....Im glad youre not on my Fire Department.

No one is debating whether or not to drag a civilian out, obviously that is a priority. But, A RIT team is at a fire for 1 reason, and 1 reason only. To help FFs that are in trouble. The regular search teams should be the ones dragging the civilian out, while the RIT team continues on its assigned duty.

The oath I took was to protect ALL lives and property, and if by my thinking that my brothers come before civilians has offended you, too damn bad.

[FFFRED]

Interesting thoughts on here...never would have imagined reading this stuff on here.
This is another one of those topics that shouldn't even have to be debated.

We (the FD) come first. If our brothers are in trouble...they take precedence. You can take that idiolistic sillyness (public service...etc.) and shove it. There is no use for that on the fireground. Explain that to the brothers widow and children at the funeral.

The civilian for all you know besides possibly being an arsonist or a crackhead...might already be far too gone...whereas we know a brother is in trouble and has a much better chance of living. He has a MASK, Gear...helmet...etc. The civilian has none of these things.

I'll second the thoughts already posted that I'm glad you aren't on my job. Radio their location or mark it...I'm sure someone will be quickly comming to get them. If you don't have the manpower for both...too f*ckin bad... perhaps the taxpayers who didn't give two sh*ts about staffing issues prior to the fire will get their act together and give you what you need. If not they know what the stakes are now.

You can only work with the resources the city gives you...if there is only enough to rescue the brother...then so be it.

If you encounter a civilian transmit their position...leave them and work to find the brother who is in trouble.

FTM-PTB

[BCmdepas3280]

.

I'll second the thoughts already posted that I'm glad you aren't on my job. Radio their location or mark it...I'm sure someone will be quickly comming to get them. If you don't have the manpower for both...too f*ckin bad... perhaps the taxpayers who didn't give two sh*ts about staffing issues prior to the fire will get their act together and give you what you need. If not they know what the stakes are now.

You can only work with the resources the city gives you...if there is only enough to rescue the brother...then so be it.

If you encounter a civilian transmit their position...leave them and work to find the brother who is in trouble.

FTM-PTB

Yes what he said

[ChicagoFF]

Kindly provide the link to the law that requires ambulance crews to drive around injured people in the middle of the road. It should make for interesting reading.

We never stop for a waver when we are on a run. We radio it in and continue in to our original assignment (with the obvious exception of spotting a fire on the way to another run.) I don't care if they are in the middle of the road, we drive around them and take the run we were dispatched to.

[Res343cue]

Hmmm, one thing I haven't seen mentioned...

Your suppression and truck companies shouldn't stop working, just because the RIT team is inside. Someone has to put the "wet stuff on the red stuff", someone needs to vent the building, and someone needs to be doing a primary / secondary search.

Don't confuse the functions of a DEDICATED RIT / FAST team with a "general" truck company. The RIT team is the "truck company" for firefighters in need. Period.

PS: Doesn't your life come first, followed by that of the crew, then everyone else?

[dday05]

When your RIT,the function of the team is to rescue our fellow firefighters,that's the way we operate. No questions asked,if we dont look out for our fellow brothers and sisters than who will??????????STAY SAFE

[nyckftbl]

PS: Doesn't your life come first, followed by that of the crew, then everyone else?

My thoughts exactly.

[krawllins07]

Every time and every department this question is raised. Civllian or fire fighter. Having study ethics as part of my undergraduate education I learned that no moral or ethical question has an answer. Every situation is going to be different. If you have a fire fighter down because of deteriorating conditions what chances do you think that civilian has of survival? In addition I think most people are defining RIT by the 2-in-2-out rule. RIT shouldn't be 2 people, it's ineffective. I know, volunteers are lucky to get 4 people at a day time fire.

If you have the people that you should you can either send the civillian out with one of your crew members since you're probably on a rope or a hose line anyway. Or, you can have another crew assigned to rescue come do the rescue. This is team work after all.

The way I prefer to answer ethical questions is like this:

"If you're the down fire fighter and a crew is coming into you and your low pressure bell is going off and/or you're injured; do you want to hear on the radio, we're rescuing a civillian we'll get back to you in a minute?" What if you're just trapped. Someone can come and get you out, heck, you'll rescue the victim. What do you want the decision to be?

I know as fire fighters we accept that risk, but if a team of people was sent in to rescue you specifically, do you want them to notify command that a victim has been discovered or just blow you off?

Personally, the answer is rescue both. Doesn't matter how it gets done just that it does.

[fdsq10]

First I will start with I agree with NYCKFYBL. Second, Competent Fireground Communication and assignments are developed upon a framework of words. Fireground Communications is key to incident stabilization. I know your asking yourself what the ****** does this have to do with the question that was asked. There are two life safety words that are key communicated words on the fireground they are: RESCUE & RIT: Rapid INTERVENTION team.

If words mean something and a single word or command means a lot, then when assigned a task such as to perform a RESCUE what does that mean. RESCUE: which is a Civilian life safety word this is the responsibiliy of the first due companies during the attack mode, either by an Engine, Ladder, or Rescue company performing a primary search. Rescue means that Civilians are in immediate danger and must be removed by Firefighters, this is a known, confirmed rescue situation, performed during a primary search.

INTERVENTION: This is a Firefighters life safety word. Intervention means endangered firefighter needing immeadiate help, to support the SURVIVAL and to faciliate the removal of a down/ trapped firefighter. RAPID is another key word to this intervention, it's not rapid if you stop to perform a RESCUE (CIVILIAN LIFE SAFETY) that can be communicated to another crew to handle.

With that, as an Officer on a Squad company if assigned as a RIT and we are called to perform our job, then the the down or trapped Firefighter "WIN'S my decision. STAY SAFE.

[buckyswider]

"Command from me. I'm evacuating a civilian. Pull someone from the truck to assist the RIT team".

[madison112]

I have a member on our dept who is causing quite a stir. He is stating to the other members that if he is assigned to be on RIT and he is activated as such, then if he comes across a civilian downed first while attempting to find the downed ff, he will rescue the civilian first. I am under the impression that the RIT is for FF rescue only. S&R teams are for civilians. I need some help here, can anyone give me a brief description of their dept SOG's concerning this? I would be happy with any comments on this topic. Thank you brothers!!!

FIRST AND FOREMOST, YES RIT IS FOR FF RESCUE, HOWEVER, WE STILL OUR IN THE BUSINESS OF RESCUING CIVILIANS IN NEED. HOW MANY ARE ON YOUR RIT? WHAT IS THE CONDITION OF THE CIVILIAN?
CALL COMMAND AND ADVISE WHAT YOU FOUND AND WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO DO. THIS WOULD BE A VERY DIFFICULT SCENARIO FOR ANY OF US. I WOULD THINK IT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE BROUGHT UP IN FRONT OF EVERYONE ON YOUR DEPARTMENT FOR DISCUSSION. GOOD LUCK