1. #1
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    Default i want to say godbye to you guys

    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
    Last edited by pengman; 10-21-2005 at 01:14 PM.

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    sorry i forgot to enclose the email. so here bit is...

    Paul, I am afraid I have some bad news. At a Fire Board Meeting recently, It was decided by the members to no longer allow fireman to live outside the area of the district.The reason being fear of liability and it being a safety issue both for the responding fireman and the public. I guess I can understand that, I wouldn't want something happening to you trying to get across town. And you have your family to think of first and volunteering second. Anyway, Thank-you for being a fireman with M.F.D. I appreciate your efforts and am very sorry it can't work out. Please return all Dept. property to me or Brad, or anybody you want to I guess. Or you can leave it at the station and let somebody know it's there.Again, Iam sorry about this. And, I hope you can understand their position. Thanks again Paul

    I have never broke a speed limit to any call and can respond quicker to a medical call than the dept can.
    Last edited by pengman; 10-21-2005 at 01:14 PM.

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    I will now have to also not post here as of now as i am no longer a firefighter. PLease stay safe
    You aint getting away that easy. It doesnt matter whether you are currently in service as a firefighter or not.
    secondly, once a firefighter, always a firefighter.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PattyV
    You aint getting away that easy. It doesnt matter whether you are currently in service as a firefighter or not.
    secondly, once a firefighter, always a firefighter.
    Patty. I know what you are sayin but due to some serious B.S I have no option but to go. I talked to my assistant fire cheif and he said it was state law i had to leave as i no longer live in the same district (1 mile) I do not know how a vote by the fire board can be state law so soon??? I am trying to relocate so i can serve on either the same dept or another one near where i live.
    Last edited by pengman; 10-21-2005 at 01:15 PM.

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    Well good luck with getting back into the fire service, but if nothing else, stay on the firehouse boards. There are plenty of rookies/explorers that can get some value from your wisdom.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

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    Patty your right but i'm not sure if i can help many people. I have too many ghosts on my back that i need to put to rest first. It may seem stupid but i have not been able to sleep for the last 9 months due to the fact that.. well you know how it is. I cannot eat certain foods anymore as they remind me of how some people looked after extricating them from burnt out vehicles (pot roast, beef, pork) Most nights I wake my wife in a cold sweat because of nightmares. I had asked to be debreifed by a csid team and never got it.
    I am close to the edge and now this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pengman
    I am close to the edge and now this.
    Um....excuse me... I believe I see some Red flags exploding in this corner.

    Hey man... there have been posts on similar subjects before. The edge IS a tricky place, but not impossible to clear. Look at some of the links in past posts for help dealing with stress.

    Not say this to be funny or crass, but buddy step on back from the edge ... I've seen whats over it and the stuff on this side is MUCH better.

    Reach out if you need it.

    STLRES2CUE

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    Dont forget, these forums are a good place to talk to people. There are plenty of people on these forums that have been in a similar situation and they will always be willing to lend a shoulder to lean on.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

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    Listen to What the Man Said: (ya ok so I 'borrowed' that line, it still applies here )
    You aint getting away that easy. It doesnt matter whether you are currently in service as a firefighter or not. secondly, once a firefighter, always a firefighter.
    I also agree with StLRes2cue. There are lots of us here willing to lend a hand or a shoulder if you need it. Just holler, at least one of us always lurking in here somewhere.

    Keep your head up and walk tall - you did good things out there, and I'm sure there are more good things to come still. Good luck Paul, and stay safe!

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    I think this is a crock. There is no way that assistant chief is telling the truth. What a fire board passes is policy for the department, not law for the state. You are right to suspect this is BS. Dig further. Your state's laws are probably online, as Kentucky's are, and searchable. Search for "fire department" or "volunteer firefighter" and see whether it addresses this issue, or as you mentioned, check with your representatives to your state house.

    Methinks they have a problem with you for some reason and they're just trying to unload you. We have several members out of our district; ain't hurt nuttin' yet.

    Do not give it up. Find the truth, and good luck, and get some help for your incident stress.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.Ē
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    Brother donít just up and leave. Sounds like you need help and we are here for you. Even if the fire board or state came up with something like that, would you not be grand fathered in because of your status as being on the department. I to live outside my departments response area. As the fire department Iím on is 2.8 miles from my house and the fire department that covers my house is 3.2 miles. Since I joined following my brother, there have been changes made to our membership. However nothing affected the guys already there just new guys. Sorry to hear this kind of bs is going on.

    As far as the cisd I do not know why they will not get it for you. That breaks my heart man. I have been through it. I know where you are coming from, as do many of your brothers and sisters here. If you do not want to talk about it here, then we can do it on in email hell if you want I will give you my numbers and we can talk that way. The worst part is the bad calls. Also look back on the good ones to. Look how many lives you have helped. Believe me youíve made a difference somewhere. If you need anything we are here just say so brother
    Training does not make perfect. Training makes permanent!

    IACOJ probie

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    He lives in Fort Dodge, Iowa.

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    .................................................. .............................................
    Last edited by pengman; 10-21-2005 at 01:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pengman
    Ok here is a little update on what is happening. I called the state fire marshall and had a good talk with him. He informed me that there are no laws in the state of iowa that say you have to live in your fire district to serve on that dept, infact most dept's need people outside their district or they would not be able to get the members. I sent my cheif an email saying i will return all dept equipment some time today and i intend to talk to him about this situation. The fire marshall also stated that He thinks i should be able to continue to serve as this is a new rule within the dept and it should only be for new members of the dept. I will let you guys know how things go. I have been thinking a lot about this since receiving the email from my cheif and I have decided i am not going down without a fight.
    Personally, I think that there is something that goes beyond the residency requirement of the department. I think that they were just using THAT as the excuse.
    I think that there is another reason. You really need to grill your chief when you talk to him.
    As far as liability goes; driving distance has nothing to do with it.
    You're getting shafted. Press for the real reason.
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    Don't let the bustards wear you down,man.You must want this type of work badly,else you'd have just walked and said"Litra haht"to them as you shut the door.
    Like others have said,find out why and the chapter and verse of the reason.
    If you can't,get on with the other department you spoke of and show THEM that you can deal with problems and know to ask for help when needed.
    Best of luck to you.

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    I got a reply to my email i sent the cheif this is a copy of it. looks like it is over for the time being. now to find another dept.

    Paul, I understand your disappointment,and please understand that this in no way is intended towards you personally. It was not meant to be negative towards you, how you respond to calls or anything else Each governing body of a fire district can set certain guidelines to follow in regards to the members.By saying a member should live inside the district is simply a safe and a common sense approach to keep all involved as safe as can be.I have no doubt you follow the law when it comes to responding,But we both know you can never tell what the other guy will do.I don't want something to happen to you trying to get through town that could have been avoided. I fully understand your feelings, but you must keep your family and your career first. This is just a matter of logistics. I really appreaciate your dedication, but I do feel it would be best in the long run. I'am sorry for dropping this on you like this ,and I hope you will understand my position.
    Last edited by pengman; 10-21-2005 at 01:16 PM.

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    Keep up the fight, inform him he has no right to do this.

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    Do you americans have a governing body for unfair dismissal laws? I know that he is only a volunteer, but it is still a workplace and it is an occupation..... Just one that doesnt pay too well.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

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    Patty, in the U.S we have the federal employment laws covering minimum wage discrimination on the grounds of race, color, sex, age and disability. local/state government can make their own laws/rules as they see fit. here in Iowa apart from the federal laws we have no protection as an employee. in other words an employer can fire you and does not need to have or give a reason for termination of employment and there is nothing you can do about it whatsoever.

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    I would think they would give you a grace period to move, not just say 'as of today' without proper notification. Even for new hires, the departments give them X amount of time to move within residency requirements.
    An education is only wasted when the taught individual chooses not to recognize the value of the lesson.

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    Everyone's talking about this like it's an employment discrimination issue. It's a volunteer position. Are volunteer positions subject to the same laws as paid jobs? Perhaps the department did want to let this man go for personal reasons, and were trying to do it in a roundabout way. Not very adult of them, but most likely not illegal... ?

    As for new rules not applying to people already in the department - why? If our department decides on a new policy regarding, say, responding in POV's, that new policy applies to everyone - whether they have been responding in their POV for ten years or are just joining the department. Some policies may be made with a "grandfather" clause, but it's not necessarily so.

    I suspect there is more to this story than is being portrayed here - the first two of pengman's posts mention "serious BS" and "luckily he died" (!). Sounds like there are personality clashes within the department. I'm surprised that all of this back-and-forth between pengman and the Chief have been conducted over email. Seems like something that would have been discussed in person at the next department meeting or training night. Pengman, sit down and talk with the Chief. He may be trying to avoid confrontation by handling things this way, but it sounds like there is some issue that needs to be addressed. Maybe something you can learn and take with you if you move on to a different department.

    My gut feeling - volunteer departments are generally in great need of volunteers. When they turn someone away, they probably have a real reason. It may be legal, it may be personal, but I'm sure it is REAL either way.

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    your right that there could be other reasons but if the cheif was man enough he would have the balls to explian. I have been dedicated to this dept for nearly 3 years. I attend more calls than most of the members. I attend all parades (more than all members). I would just like the truth. I am going to have to walk away from the dept and say my goodbyes to the members but i will be able to do it with my head held high./ am i mad about this? sure i am. but I know when the fight is over. I will make sure i return all my equipment to the cheif and i will be pressing for answers.
    Last edited by pengman; 10-21-2005 at 01:17 PM.

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    The reason for your dismissal is most likely a cover for something else. Does the FD have a policiy about members who work out of the district responding? How about if they are out of the district shopping or visiting? What about a member who has a home in the district but spends more time out of the district than in the district due to work, family, or other responsibilites. What is the minimum number of hours a member must be "in district" in order to be active. Is where you sleep at night a high priority for membership? A VFD I used to belong to would prevent out of district memebrs by saying the insurance company for the department would not allow it. Of course, they could never produce a copy of the policy or a letter from the insurance company stating this as a fact. I'm sure you catch the idea.

    If your dismissal was due to another reason besides residency, the chief and commissioner should have the guts to tell you, face to face, why you can no longer be a member. Does your department have guidelines for addressing disipline? Typically, verbal warning, written warning, suspension, termination. Terminations, even in volunteer fire departments should be for just cause. And that is not just 'cause they wanted to. A disipline policy should also address correcting behavior rather than punishing the person.

    Unfortunately, there is little you can do to corrct this. Continue your studies, join another VFD and be the best fire fighter you can be.
    Last edited by KenNFD1219; 10-20-2005 at 06:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pengman
    your right that there could be other reasons but if the cheif was man enough he would have the balls to explian. I have been dedicated to this dept for nearly 3 years. I attend more calls than most of the members. I attend all parades (more than all members). I would just like the truth. I am going to have to walk away from the dept and say my goodbyes to the members but i will be able to do it with my head held high./ am i mad about this? sure i am. but I know when the fight is over. I will make sure i return all my equipment to the cheif and i will be pressing for answers. The registered nurse i was talking about earlier has been made saftey officer with no fireground experience. maybe this is who initiated the vote as they say it is a safety issue. I know she never really liked me as on one call the first time i ever met her I was getting my firstout bag from the rig when she snatched it out my hands yelling for me to get out of her way as she is an RN. I had to inform her i did not care who she was and that as an emt. and that she can only work as a first responder, and that the patient was my responsibility not hers. she never liked that. I know she was an RN and had all the best intentions in the world but with no extrication training or ems training she was not getting into that vehicle compartment for her own saftey. it was the next call when she started 2 IV's on a guy. I did let it drop to keep the peace but i mentioned it to the cheif and no action was taken. I am still a paramedic student and do have to do clinicals. if i ever see her do something like that again i cannot and will not let it slip.
    Hmmmmmmm...
    Question. Is there a fire department in the area that you actualy live in? Why not join them, they would surely welcome the help, I have seen very few VFDs not welcome new blood.

    On the old department issue. Hmmmm....here is what I would do.

    They have given you the cruddy end of the stick.

    Now you should stick it back to the man.

    If they are violating things like putting IVs into paitiets, etc, report them.

    Not only out of the spirit of sticking it to the man...its the right thing to do. Their insurance would prolby be very concernd about this. As would the proper authorities and VICTIMS FAMILY!!!!

    It doesnt have to be a direct allegation by you if you fear retalliation. The proper authorities should be notified though.

    Just a thought.

    But on the positive side of things...to hell with them.

    Join a new crew, work to be the best, challenge them to a hocky game...and give em HELL!

    Or move into thier district and run for the board.

    Or call the newspapers and such and make it a public issue.

    So much fun stuff to do! I almost wish I was there!
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    well hopefully i will be able to return my gear this weekend and all will be well, and i can move on from this.
    Last edited by pengman; 10-21-2005 at 12:13 PM.

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