1. #1
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    Question American Lafrance Eagle 75' Mid-Mount Platform

    My department has a Mack/Baker Aerialscope that we are in the planing stages of doing a Aerialscope / Remount and looking into other possible new fire apparatus as a replacement. we need input from any departments that have a new American Lafrance 75' Mid-Mount tower ladder that can give us some information on the following . The " Total cost " " Overall lenght " Rear axle GVW " etc. Thanks !

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    My Dept. is also looking at the same ALF truck to replace a 1989 Aerialscope. We have investigated the performance of the truck and it will flow 1000Gpm and hold 1000# in the platform unrestricted. The jack spread is better then the Aerialscope. Our 89 Scope is 10’6” height and the American Lafrance can meet this requirement. We looked at the Jersey City Tower Ladder 4 ALF 75’ mid-mount and it was impressive. I believe the wheel base was shorter then our current Aerialscope which will allow us better maneuverability. Our committee will probably go with a single manual monitor in the platform with 5” water intake on both sides of the body. The single biggest improvement will be the Ladder Tower giving us unrestricted egress to and from the roof. You can’t do this with an Aerial scope. The ALF body has a lot of storage.

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    Content deleted by author.
    Last edited by Firefighter807; 07-08-2009 at 07:43 PM.

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    Talking '75 Platforms

    I am not trying to hijack your thread, but since someone else has already started the mudslinging, may I please interject? Give your local Sutphen dealer a call. If mid-mount is what you want then there is no equal to the Sutphen product. I do agree that buying from ALF right now is throwing money away. (Personally, I'd rather take a swift kick in the junk than buy their junk) But, Pierce is not your answer. Just take time to consider the people who have been in the mid-mount game the longest. As a matter of fact, mid-mount is all that Sutphen will build!! Food for thought!
    I have but one ambition in life and that is to become a firefighter.

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    I agree, with ALF up in the air right now, I surely look elsewhere. Thank God we aren't talking delivery of an ALF aerial next week. We have a Rescue Command Walk in , that's enough. We went with Smeal. I'm a big Pierce fan myself, but I don't write the checks.
    If you are buying an aerial, look at Pierce, Smeal, Sutphen or E-One. Probably in that order. These are all good solid rigs and companies.

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    I'm no ALF fan, and I do agree with the message your conveying, but come on man. All you ever do is post "XXXXXXXXXXX suck, buy Pierce". You offer no constructive reasons why to look at Pierce, no reason why they are superior and no real reason to change the mind of the person who posted the question.

    He was asking for opinions and facts from people on the forums who have EXPERIENCE with, specifically, ALF 75' MM platforms. There is no harm in that. He is asking to better educate himself and/or his department on an upcoming purchase.

    And your either a uneducated Pierce employee or an uneducated Pierce fan because Pierce doesn't make a 75' MM platform. They only make an 85' MM platform unless they have one being secretly developed for delivery to FDNY for stealth trials with it running every fire in all 5 boroughs.

    And EFD281 is on to something with Sutphen. If your set on a MM platform, Sutphen and Aerialscope have been doing it the longest and they make aerials in the length your interested in along with good reputations.

    Good luck no matter how it works out.
    Last edited by STATION2; 10-23-2005 at 10:35 PM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    And here we go again (yes i'll bite on the troll's bait). Why don't you start a thread that just says "Here's why Pierce is the best truck ever" and then let people who ask about unrelated topics find the answer to their questions. I'm sure that his or her fire department has evaluated Pierce or even Sutphen, as they are major manufacturers.

    Sorry for the snappy response, just tired of seeing every thread, no matter how directed the question is, turn into an argument about how great Pierce, E-One, Seagrave, are and how bad KME is.

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    Default junk u say and in the same breath sutphen

    alf is in all respects superior to sutphen any day or nite of the week as is pierce

    sutphen is and has always been a piece of junk

    the fdny sutphens were junk and were removed from service much to the protest of the sutphen bros

    cities here in ohio have sutphens and u cant climb the aerial

    not so with alf or pierce

    sutphen is essentially unchanged in many moons

    they were bargain basement but no more

    the new one for painesville ohio is over 800000

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    Station 2- I believe Pierce's mid-mount is a 95' platform, not 85.

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    Thanks Sven, I meant 95' and typed 85'. I was thinking faster than I can type.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewJerseyFFII
    My department has a Mack/Baker Aerialscope that we are in the planing stages of doing a Aerialscope / Remount and looking into other possible new fire apparatus as a replacement. we need input from any departments that have a new American Lafrance 75' Mid-Mount tower ladder that can give us some information on the following . The " Total cost " " Overall lenght " Rear axle GVW " etc. Thanks !
    We are only looking at ( 75' Mid-mount Platforms ) because of the trucks overall length, need a apparatus that will fit into the firehouse bay . Sure Pierce builds a great 95' tower & E- One has a 95' Mid-Mount but no " 75' ".

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    Well not a 75 ft. but we're also finalizing our deal for a 90+ ft. MM tower. We toured the Northeast for three days talking to the firefighters who use them, not the chiefs and not the "wackers" who think only their company builds a real truck.

    E-One, KME and ALF were all within 10K of each other, Peirce was 110K more and Aerialscope was incomplete.

    Firefighter807:Is a Peirce worth $110,000 more than another built tot he same spec? What about the problems they have with the MM creeping out of the bed while parked? Seems Rocky Hill, Ct. lost their bucket on a low overpass because the bucket was up and out of the bed. How about the multiplexing magnets not lining up and causing the tower to "freeze"?

    Eveyone has gliches and the more NFPA and the safety Nazi's force feed stupid gadgets on us the more problems and danger we'll have.

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    Sutphens junk? Yeah,right. They seem to withstand years served and TCOO(total cost of ownership) pretty near as well as a 'scope and better than most of the rest of the breeds out there. You want to know about aerial devices? Ask a UNBIASED guy that works on them everyday like the UL test guy.You'll get differing opinions here too but from people who see the problems everyday. And Pierce wasn't a "first choice" for the guy that tested our ladder. Good thread,as we're looking to replace our ladder in the next couple years. T.C.

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    Apparatus Fan,

    Check your numbers on the Painsville truck. I assume you meant to say 80,000 pounds but even at that, Sutphen doesn't manufacture an apparatus with a GVWR of 80,000 pounds. Their SP110, the tallest non articulating platform built in the USA, and the heaviest apparatus they manufacture only has a GVWR of 74,000 poounds.

    Sutphen was the first company to manufacture aerial platforms and their is a reason why they havent changed significantly in design, they dont need to.

    Sutphen still the oldest continually owned fire apparatus manufacturer in the country. And has been building aerial platforms for over 40 years, I think they might be doing something right.

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    Default Sutphen Quality

    Little changes over 40 years because of a design that was way ahead of it's time. It's been time tested and there has never been a Sutphen drop a fireman from the sky!!! Pierce, E-One, Seagrave, ALF........none can say the same.
    I have but one ambition in life and that is to become a firefighter.

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    Stick with the aerialscope... our dept has one they are very durable trucks... check out www.birdsborofd.org they had an awesome refurb done by pierce

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    Default sutphen=junk

    kent ohio owned some sutphen pumpers that were more junk than the junk in city dump

    cleveland sutphens were piles of junk

    fdny sutphens were in service the shortest of all aerial platforms including aerialscopes alf/lti's etc

    painesvilles new rig is at 803k dollars so sutphen is not a bargain anymore

    the ladder cant be climbed according to the rep that came down to youngstown when they delivered their sutphen in 2000

    this nonsense about no need for improvements is garbage like the product itself

    sure wish sutphen would fold instead of all of these others

    see their latest new pic of a pumper they came out with?

    looks like somebody's nitemare

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    Geeze, Sounds like someone stole your Code 3 Sutphen Pumper Model last Christmas................. Probably a good idea to stick to the thread or get help for the Demons !

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    Quote Originally Posted by efd281
    Little changes over 40 years because of a design that was way ahead of it's time. It's been time tested and there has never been a Sutphen drop a fireman from the sky!!! Pierce, E-One, Seagrave, ALF........none can say the same.

    I beg to differ... E-One has never had a ladder failure in the 22+ years they have been building them.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Default reply to my friend edorolin

    with all due respect edorolin as a salesperson of fire apparatus as i noted u stated in one of ur posts in the archives ur sum total of output contributed to the forum isnt all that much quite frankly. not really much substance one can sink their teeth into . just a little of this and a litttle of that and a lot of really nothing. so my post cites specifics in response to someones glorifying sutphen versus the main thread of alf/lti 75ft platform. and what do u have to offer. a snide remark lacking in substance like 90% of all of ur other posts. so as far as sticking to the thread id like to see u just once stick to any thread intelligently.
    also if ur selling fire apparatus or whatever ur doing , spelling isnt going to help unless ur of course the clientelle is of like caliber as urself...of limited educational background

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    Quote Originally Posted by apparatusfan
    with all due respect edorolin as a salesperson of fire apparatus as i noted u stated in one of ur posts in the archives ur sum total of output contributed to the forum isnt all that much quite frankly. not really much substance one can sink their teeth into . just a little of this and a litttle of that and a lot of really nothing. so my post cites specifics in response to someones glorifying sutphen versus the main thread of alf/lti 75ft platform. and what do u have to offer. a snide remark lacking in substance like 90% of all of ur other posts. so as far as sticking to the thread id like to see u just once stick to any thread intelligently.
    also if ur selling fire apparatus or whatever ur doing , spelling isnt going to help unless ur of course the clientelle is of like caliber as urself...of limited educational background
    Hello Kettle?

    You write like a 12 year old, and your limited educational background is evident.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Apparatusfan,how about filling out your profile? Those of us that have been here awhile like to know who we're talking to.And I believe we were discussing tower ladders which makes any discussion of pumpers(Kent Ohio or otherwise) a moot point. I CAN tell you any aerial test guy I've spoken to DOES NOT share your opinion. Since these guys work around/test aerial devices everyday,I would tend to respect their opinion.By some chance did a Sutphen run over your foot or something? Or perhaps you'd care to favor us with your idea of the "perfect"aerial device? T.C.

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    Default Apparatus Fan ?

    One of your statement's is very true, I do represent Sutphen Corp. in the state of Illinois and Northwest Indiana. I also have never tried to hide the fact and most important, whatever I have posted everyone knows exactly who it is from. Also you can call any of my customers for a reference.

    Most of the time the only way I respond to the forums in firehouse is to add a little humor towards a post usually from someone that is my friend, such as NPFD801, etc. The other time is to add humor to a post that gets off base and then turns ugly such as your post towards Sutphen. If you have serious issues as posted maybe you should call Sutphen 1-800-848-5860 and talk to one of the Sutphen's.

    Every manufacturer has issues sooner or later. It is easier to find fault somewere when a company has been in the business of manufacturing fire apparatus for 115 years. Just like it is to find fault with a manufacturer who builds in mass quantities. It is going to happen. The end result should be, did the customer get the customer service they paid for and if the company backs what they write on the warranty documents.

    I do not blast any of the competition's apparatus because it does not add to the forum in a positive light. Recently one of my previous post where towards a Seagrave thread. Nothing to do with Sutphen, but the person who continued to post always signed of that the company sucked. The Seagrave dealer in Illinois is a personal friend of mine and does quite well. You hear that quite often towards most all manufacturers on this forum sooner or later. Sometimes you get tired of it, no matter who it is directed towards.

    Until I moved, I was a chief officer of a small rural fire department in Illinois who over the years got to know the equipment and apparatus salespersons quite well. You know what, a good majority of the Pierce, Seagrave, Smeal, Alexis, Crimson (towers) salespersons and I are still friends even though I am a sales representative for Sutphen and US Tanker.

    I will close out by making the following statements:

    1. You should expose yourself on this forum. Most of the guys who have a number of posts such as Station 2, CTXFFMAN, Rescue 101 and Captain Gonzo have pretty good answers or insight when questions for help are needed. So maybe you need to edit your profile and have a coming out party.

    2. As far as Sutphen should fold, right ? , must of heard that at a trade show when they did not pass out lighted key chains.


    3. Sutphen not being bargain basement, I sell them in Illinois and never knew they were in the basement as far as pricing goes. Painsville's aerial over 800k does not surprise me, have you been to a bid opening lately, most everyone for large aerial platforms are over 800k.

    4. Platforms that you cannot climb. Just to let you know, if a department spec's out an aerial platform, low rail, thats exactly what they will recieve. A aerial platform with low rails that is not designed for climbing.


    I promise to correct my spelling in the future, be more active with positive posts and reply when derogatory comments are made. The thread is about ALF, who just hired a new national sales manager that previously held that position at Sutphen and wish him well.

    Take Care !
    Last edited by edorolin; 10-26-2005 at 07:38 PM.

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    (I promise to correct my spelling in the future, be more active with positive posts and reply when derogatory comments are made. The thread is about ALF, who just hired a new national sales manager that previously held that position at Sutphen and wish him well.)

    Prior to Stuphen, worked at LTI.

    So what?

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    Exclamation

    NJFFII: Please take everything said on these forums with a cautionary grain of salt. Many posters such as Station 2 and Capt. Gonzo have very valid points, while others make none. Most of all you need to pay most attention to what questions to ask prospective bidders and salesmen. There is no validity in "X is the best and Y sucks!" There are too many factors in making such a purchase to let samoenes personal opinions serve as fact. That being said, you should ask E-One about their rate of catastrophic aerial failure (zero) or any manufacturer a question if someone brings up a potential issue. We found that during our three day tour that Peirce may have an issue with the buckets spontaneously raising from the bed. The sales people and factory reps should make you comfortable with any potential issues. Make sure you are comfortable with ALF's stability in the market today and down the road. I beleive we are confident enough to not throw them out of the running for our new mm tower. But I cannot tell you not to worry, let them convince you.

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