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Thread: Chicago Fire Exam, March 2006

  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalinmedic
    I think most people who took the test (most being the ones that are whining) failed to research CFD aside from watching backdraft. If you had researched CFD you would have known how difficult getting a fair shake was going to be (in relation to strictly test scores). The city has been proclaiming for the past year that it is their intention bring diversity to the CFD, and that is what they are going to do.
    Should CFD take the best test takers? NO. The test is merely a minimum standard. The physical agility is a minimum standard. The minimum that it takes to be a firefighter. Did CFD make the minimum standard easier to reach, yes they did. Does it make it easier to pass, sure...but itís easier for everyone.

    CFD will do what it has to do to diversify the department, but I can assure you that the standards will not be lowered in the academy (well I canít assure you, but I am assuming...) Will minorities get hiring preference, sure. But if they canít do the job then I will bet they will be weeded out in the academy.

    What kills me is that a select few think they are better then the rest of the 17000+ that past the test. Realize this, you are a number.

    If you wanted to get a better shake, they you should have checked other when it asked about race. Or not answer it at all.

    I do see both spectrums of the argument. After all I am a crusty, almost too old to get hired, white male.

    It is what it is folks, complaining isnít going to change your score or give you enhancement points.
    I disagree with you on a lot of that. I do agree, that people should have known what they were getting into and that Chicago is retarded when it comes to their hiring practices.

    Where I disagree, is with the minimums etc. Yes, the written and physical agility tests are minimums and whatnot. The stupid way the city does their list rules out the people that did better on the written test. It's quite simple, the way the civil service system NON DISCRIMINITORILY operates on the merit system. You score 100 on the test, I score a 98 on the test, you get the job. Simple as that. There is no random assigning of numbers, that's BS.

    There is no reason ANYONE (going on a limb here that will **** people off, even Vets, and I'm in the Air Force) should have a hiring preference. It should be 100% merit based, period.

    You say the crappy ones will be weeded out in the academy, the crappy white guys yea, the crappy females and miniorities....nope. They'll sail right through and be handed accolades upon graduation simply because of their color or gender. It happens in every major city, Philly, NY....everywhere. The politicians pander to anyone who's not a white male and they are absolutely afraid to ever discilpline or tell how it is to a minority or a female because they're worried about discrimination lawsuits. The sad part, is the fact that there is NO discrimination, but in court it will win because someone whines enough and the courts are afraid to be labeled as Klan members or something, who knows.

    Either way, it's a joke and it's a perfect example of our eroding society and I honestly can't stand people for it. Suck it up, what happened to the generation of our parents? How did everything go down hill so rapidly???

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    Default merit based....

    i never said chicago was retarded. I think that it is very noble trying to have the city services reflect the population it serves.

    in the ideal world merit based is a perfect system. but my wife is crazy smart and would score 100 percent on any civil service test put in front of her. does that mean she should get the job before me?? what about the fact that she is 5ft 5inches, and 105 lbs soaking wet, with 21 percent body fat. she admits that there is no way she could do the job, physically that is.

    This was never a merit based test, it was never advert. as such. it was a pass/fail test. merit dosent fit into this picture.

    i agree that if you and i are evenly matched in all aspects, and you score one point better than i...the sure you get the job. But do you really want to perform a battery of test on 17000+ applicants? How much would that cost the city?

    I am a fan of no nonsense fire/ems. you have to do what is practical.

    like i said, i see both sides of this case.

    But if i remember correctly you didnt even take the chicago test? you spoke of wasting time and money and you were glad that you didnt. I researched CFD, and i bought the plane ticket (from alaska), i got the hotel room. Im not in the top 1200, but it was an investment nonetheless. FACT: you cant get the job if you dont take the test.

    I wonder what your opinions would be if you did indeed take the test, and you were in the top 500??
    Last edited by pedalinmedic; 10-03-2006 at 04:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalinmedic
    i never said chicago was retarded. I think that it is very noble trying to have the city services reflect the population it serves.
    Why is that noble? Wouldn't an employer municipal or otherwise only want the best and brightest they can hire for any job...be it a police officer, bridge mechanic, bus driver or fireman...regardless of the color of their skin? Didn't MLK want his kids to be judged by their character and not the color of their skin? How do your comments reflect on your bias against white applicants?

    Are white firemen incapable of providing fire protection services to a largely Black population? Or are you saying blacks should only work in areas that are predominantly Black? Which is it?, we are all dying to know.

    Why is it the city in its quest to increase the number of minorities on the job...reduced the job requirements to just being barely qualified? If they have x number of jobs to fill and an adequate number of applicants, shouldn't they be hiring those who are most qualified and prepared for that job? Isn't this a bit insulting to the class of people you feel so noble about helping?

    Should we also start choosing....
    -Astronauts
    -Airline pilots
    -Brain Surgens
    -Lawyers (especially if you are sitting trial for murder)
    -Police officers
    -Your Tax accountant
    -Teachers for your children
    -Wide recievers for your favorite football team,
    -Forwards for your favorite basketball team.
    -Soliders, Sailors and Marines...

    All based on some subjective criteria based solely on the color of ones skin or being a member of a group who just happen to be under represented or that would like a well paying job.

    I suppose that there are no agencies in Chicago that are disporportionally black and hispanic are there? I know here in NYC there are...yet I don't see the outcry to recruit lots of white males to balance out the numbers so that they properly reflect the census numbers...as if that has anything to do with job performance!

    in the ideal world merit based is a perfect system. but my wife is crazy smart and would score 100 percent on any civil service test put in front of her. does that mean she should get the job before me?? what about the fact that she is 5ft 5inches, and 105 lbs soaking wet, with 21 percent body fat. she admits that there is no way she could do the job, physically that is.

    This was never a merit based test, it was never advert. as such. it was a pass/fail test. merit dosent fit into this picture.
    Your first example is spurious as the most fair hiring systems in the country that only use written and physical scores combine both to ensure that one factor isn't overlooked. If you are going to make an argument, at least do us the favor of making it based on facts.

    Besides the fact...if your wife "meets" the bare minimum of requirements she should of course be provided a firemans job...before you, even though by your own admition you are more physically qualified than her.

    The point is that they should be moving towards more of a merit based system that aliviates all bias towards one race or another...it should simply reward those who excell and those who take the effort to prepare themselves for said job. Not reward one race over another by skewing or dumbing down the exam to allow for those at the bottom to rise above those who worked hard to achive something in their lives.

    There were many systems of government that were similar to what you apparently subscribe too in this world, where everyone is treated as equal and indiviual success and achivement for onesself was trampled upon and dampened by an oppressive regime. Most of them are gone now (hint:they had a hammer and sickle on their red flag, comrade )

    i agree that if you and i are evenly matched in all aspects, and you score one point better than i...the sure you get the job. But do you really want to perform a battery of test on 17000+ applicants? How much would that cost the city?
    I'm sure it would cost less than it costs NYC who routinely subcribes to Merit based hiring standards and has been doing it for the better part of a century due to the same problem Chicago is famous for...coruption. It has worked well too. In the past few decades they have tested 30,000 to 50,000 at a time. Should be no problem for the "Second city".

    I am a fan of no nonsense fire/ems. you have to do what is practical.
    like i said, i see both sides of this case.
    What is practical is rewarding hard work and achivement. A person spends their life...doing well in school, staying physically fit and keeps themsevles of a high moral character (aka-out of jail) then if they happen to score better on a standardized exam for a job...they deserve the first shot before the others...yes in a very measurable and objective manner...they are better than all the others.

    "Practical" is getting the most physically fit, mentally capable and moraly sound individuals to execute and uphold the finest duties and traditions of the Chicago Fire Department.

    Diluting that in any way, shape or manner should be viewed as nothing less than unacceptable.

    There was a time in this country when we would reward hard work and perserverance...apparently that is no more. We can't offend anyone who might be too lazy, unmotivated or uninterested in a particular job by telling them, someone else worked harder and deserves the job more than you.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 10-03-2006 at 05:23 PM.

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    Why does everyone on the forum keep suggesting that holding a pass/fail test exclusively benefits minorities? Does anyone have a problem with a white male scoring 71 and getting the job?
    I agree with fffred that an equally rated physical/ qritten exam is the best bet. I just want to emphasize again, that scoring 100 doesn't make you the "best qualified". I know plenty of book smart guys who are lousy firefighters. Lastly, the city doesn't owe you a job. Keep testing.

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    Does anyone have a problem with a white male scoring 71 and getting the job?

    Yes... if there are several thousand ahead of him, who scored better, and are better qualified

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    Default response to FFFRED

    FFFRED,

    I should have prefaced my comment with "some food for thought", I apologize if it was understood that my comments are how I personally feel.

    Also, you are preaching to the choir. I like to look at both sides of a conversation, and since most of the post in this forum has been negative in regards to the CFD testing, I like to mix it up. Furthermore I want to thank you for a response that required thought and time to materialize.

    I know that everything I have done since the age of 14 has prepared me for being a FF. I once was a career FF, and for the pursuit of knowledge I relocated to attend university. However I did so knowing that a degree is not going to help me at all until it comes time for promotions.

    There are somethingís I would like to add about your comments, especially about FDNY. The following was reported in the New York daily news on 9/20/06.

    "The city also changed the FDNY application requirements, no longer making 30 college credits or two years of military duty the standard for applicants. Anyone with a year of college, six months' work experience or an honorable discharge from the military is now eligible."
    "The goal is to make the department more representative of the people we serve," Scoppetta said."

    So i guess that FDNY is another employer that wants its employees to represent its population?? and is making it easier to test?

    Also the hiring practices of FDNY have recently gained the attention of the Justice System, prompting a special call city council meeting this week.

    In additon, right now there are 5 cases going before the New York Supreme Court against the FDNY for unfair promotions against women in the EMS division.

    FDNY has a long history of Nepotism, bribery and good ol'boy hiring practices. This is no secret. Your dad on the job, come aboard. You say your brother is at 93 engine, come aboard. So hows your aunt coping since you lost your uncle at 911? Oh, here's your turnouts.

    more food for thought: why do you think there are so many irish and italian cops/firefighters in new york? it was the only job they could get during the great immigration?? howd they get those jobs? Connections to politicians.

    With departments this size and traditions this deep, corruption will always exist!


    Is gaire cabhair de na an doras
    Virtete et Valare Luceo Non Uro

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    A friend of mine tested in 1995 and was lucky enough to be hired in the first class. He told me that they had to go through approximately 800 people to fill his class. He also said that every class thereafter they went through more and more people on the list. I don't know about anybody reading this that took the test, but myself, and at least 15 other people I know that tested, already have full-time jobs and took the test as a "What the Hell, I have nothing to lose" type attitude. I know that many people will turn the job down, fail the physical, drug test, or whatever. If they decide to start at random number 1 and go up, and you have a crappy number like myself, keep a positive attitude and maybe we'll be in the academy together. Good Luck to all!

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    I agree with you Chicago1, Ive been saying that to my friends. Just because your number is in the 13,000 DOESN"T mean you have no chance. Look at the test and how easy it was, anybody could have passed that test. They will go through several thousand numbers on this test to get the right guys in. I have heard that they may hire around 1200 with the new list, if you honestly believe that those with numbers 1-1200 are all going to be the ones hired, well then thats just silly.
    Last edited by Outlet05; 10-03-2006 at 10:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalinmedic
    FFFRED,

    I should have prefaced my comment with "some food for thought", I apologize if it was understood that my comments are how I personally feel.

    Also, you are preaching to the choir. I like to look at both sides of a conversation, and since most of the post in this forum has been negative in regards to the CFD testing, I like to mix it up. Furthermore I want to thank you for a response that required thought and time to materialize.

    I know that everything I have done since the age of 14 has prepared me for being a FF. I once was a career FF, and for the pursuit of knowledge I relocated to attend university. However I did so knowing that a degree is not going to help me at all until it comes time for promotions.

    There are somethingís I would like to add about your comments, especially about FDNY. The following was reported in the New York daily news on 9/20/06.

    "The city also changed the FDNY application requirements, no longer making 30 college credits or two years of military duty the standard for applicants. Anyone with a year of college, six months' work experience or an honorable discharge from the military is now eligible."
    "The goal is to make the department more representative of the people we serve," Scoppetta said."

    So i guess that FDNY is another employer that wants its employees to represent its population?? and is making it easier to test?
    You've made some interesting comments/charges, I will do my best to provide some relevant context to them.

    Most don't disagree with the removal of the College credits.(only 3 exams since the late 90s have required them) and thus most guys got hired without them. It is the reasoning behind the issue...if they change the scoring, questions, events or weight the exam in any way to favor the hiring of one particular race over another(or gender)...then that is completely and categorically wrong in every manner and capacity.

    Also the hiring practices of FDNY have recently gained the attention of the Justice System, prompting a special call city council meeting this week.
    First lets set something straight. There is no FDNY hiring. There is NYC hiring through the agency that does so for all job titles...DCAS. The FDNY has no choice who takes or passes the exam. Period. BTW, DCAS adminsters the exams for all job titles, even the ones that are predominantly black and latino or female...much more so than the census numbers would indicate

    Second the Justice dept (not system) is involved simply because of a Black fireman's group complained that not enough minorities are being hired by the FDNY. (note: these race baiters don't consider the hispanics as minorities) the hispanic males have been getting on in greater numbers for more than a decade now and without problems and without whining like c*nts to the Feds either. They studdied hard in school, stayed physically fit and maintained a high moral character. (stayed out of jail) Thus they have been rewared with decent paying civil service jobs and can support their familes.

    In additon, right now there are 5 cases going before the New York Supreme Court against the FDNY for unfair promotions against women in the EMS division.
    There are 12 jobs deputy chiefs jobs on the EMS side. 6 are currently women! Thats right 50% are women, in direct proportion to your noble population statistics and these 5 women have the balls (some probably do) to claim that women in FDNY EMS are descriminated against in the deputies rank! (btw they have as much to do with the FDNY as pig latin has to quantum physics)

    FDNY has a long history of Nepotism, bribery and good ol'boy hiring practices. This is no secret. Your dad on the job, come aboard. You say your brother is at 93 engine, come aboard. So hows your aunt coping since you lost your uncle at 911? Oh, here's your turnouts.
    Really? No secret? Do you know something we don't? That history you speak of is from over 100 years ago...get with the times. Your father no matter who he is, has no bearing on your getting hired if you don't have a list number from you passing the written and physical with an excellent passing score, you can forget it as far as getting on the job. I know a few guys who sons never got on because they couldn't pass or didn't take the exam. It is obvious you are attempting to pass off a lie as truth. You are hired in order of list number once the list is promulgated....period. No pop-time will get you hired any faster or enable one to circumvent the civil service system.

    more food for thought: why do you think there are so many irish and italian cops/firefighters in new york? it was the only job they could get during the great immigration?? howd they get those jobs? Connections to politicians.
    First the Irish and Italians took the jobs because they were in many cases all they were qualified for and the only jobs they could get. They were tough, unforgiving jobs that demanded more time away from home than most other jobs outside active enlistment in the military. That is why...not as much patronage was involved in the lower level jobs. Patronage played a much larger role in higher ranks by far.

    Furthermore this occurred back 100 years ago when Tammany Hall ruled the roost. You apparently missed the part about civil service hiring laws and how they eliminated poltical patronage for these job titles. The last guy who got hired under the pretenses you claim on here probably died during the first half of the LAST century!

    With departments this size and traditions this deep, corruption will always exist!
    Without a doubt, Ours at least is 100 years ahead of Chicago's and that is what I percive to be most persons complaints regarding this exam. They don't reward hard work and superior physical abilities. They encourage and reward mediocrity.

    Some day if you should leave Alaska and live in Chicago, you will truely understand the meaning of your comments and how they are percived by us; those who tried hard to achive something in this country without recieving a handout or largess

    Best of luck...for your sake I hope you never come to realize the failings of your logic on the job. You might not see the following day because of it.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 10-03-2006 at 11:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlet05
    I agree with you Chicago1, Ive been saying that to my friends. Just because your number is in the 13,000 DOESN"T mean you have no chance. Look at the test and how easy it was, anybody could have passed that test. They will go through several thousand numbers on this test to get the right guys in. I have heard that they may hire around 1200 with the new list, if you honestly believe that those with numbers 1-1200 are all going to be the ones hired, well then thats just silly.
    exactly, whos to say they will even start at number 1? they might just pick random numbers just like they assigned

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    I'm sure I can find some relative of mine that is Native American. Would that help me in the minority race?


    Yes... my great great great grandfather was Chief Cowabunga of the tribe Gimme Gimme Joba.

    Just because of that, does that make me a better firefighter than the rest?

    Just face it. This problem is getting more and more frequent in the fire service and its a problem that is going to persist till department start taking a stand, demanding that the fire service quit watering itself down.

    No one is saying that minorities dont make good firefighters. What people are complaining about is the ones who get passed over who are BETTER qualified than the ones getting hired just because they are not a minority. If I get passed over because there is a minority that is more qualified than I am, I wont be happy but it will be only my fault, not his. For the most part though, the Chicago test is not like that. They are passing over thousands of qualified people just because of their skin, race, and/or sex

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    They are passing over thousands of qualified people just because of their skin, race, and/or sex

    You do realize that out of the 25k who took the test, there will be a black, female, jew, who scored 100% and still won't get hired because of the random system, don't you?

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    Thumbs down

    I thought this was a forum to discuss things and not bash other races and jump down peoples throat for a comment that is made.....its gettin pretty bad in here!

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    You are 100% correct. Got caught up in the kitchen table b***ch session. I personally will refrain from reading or writing anymore posts that are not informative or constructive. Thanks for bringing me back down cap.

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    Default CFD Test

    This is what I was told by a FF/Medic in Chicago I do not know how much is right or wrong, but his dad been on the job for 30 + years. Anyway here it goes he told my that each academy class has to be fulled with 10% paramedics from CFD. over the last few years they where unable to do so. They need to hire Medics. They are going to send out info packets to all the people that passed and the ones that are paramedics already for what ever department or ambulance service will go to the top. As far as the # they are just your assigned # if you have friends that took the test you will see they started with last dig of SS at 0 and worked there way down for your assigned #. I am in the 15,000.if you read the letter they then will pick random # for the hiring steps.They are expecting to go thur 1000 or more to get one academy class. he said the last class they went thur 2500 to get the class fulled. I have 8 members of the department that took the test. They are in diff. spots according to there SS. Now you als need to take in the fact that you have to take the EMT course in the academy and at the pass the IL State test which is now the national reg test which is very hard. I know for a fact. The test is harder then the old IL State test alot of folks have failed and took it 3 times which is the max # of times then you have to take the class again. So you will have maybe 60 - 50 % of the academy class get out of the academy onto the job. My friend also told me they are adding more BLS ambulance and more ALS Engine's.

    one thing every one needs to remember there are alot of full time, POC and Vollies you took the test that are very well trained for the job.

    Here are the # 54% whites passed 21% of blacks passed 20% hisp. and the rest was native amer. that for the news in Chicago.

    Me and my friends look at it this way if they call us fine if not it's ok but we all work for a busy dept. Chicago is a dream job for all of us we would all love to work for the city of Chicago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalinmedic
    more food for thought: why do you think there are so many irish and italian cops/firefighters in new york? it was the only job they could get during the great immigration?? howd they get those jobs? Connections to politicians.

    Is gaire cabhair de na an doras
    Virtete et Valare Luceo Non Uro
    Are you kidding me??? They got those jobs because they couldn't get any other jobs. No one wanted to be a fireman in the old days. It paid next to nothing, 24 on 24 off, they couldn't give the job away. Even in 1970 when my chief came on, he walked on because no one really wanted the job. My great grand father was a Chicago police captain. He got the job while he was digging a ditch and a cop came along and asked if any of them could read or write. He could and was hired that day. The Irish and Italians got the job because they are the only ones who wanted the crappy jobs!
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Default Chicago test

    I am checking with other CFD guys to see what they heard

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire1080
    They need to hire Medics. They are going to send out info packets to all the people that passed and the ones that are paramedics already for what ever department or ambulance service will go to the top.
    I wouldn't count on that. We have tons of our own medics already on the job looking to cross over. The reason they ran short is that to cross over a medic would have had to take the test. They were running out of guys who took the '95 test. Now they have a whole fresh batch of our own guys to hire from. Maybe emt-p will help you, but like I said - I wouldn't count on it.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Default Cfd

    Chicago FF have you heard about the hiring?

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    Default medics

    only 6% at passed where CFD medics that what he said

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    I'm sure it would cost less than it costs NYC who routinely subcribes to Merit based hiring standards and has been doing it for the better part of a century due to the same problem Chicago is famous for...coruption. It has worked well too. In the past few decades they have tested 30,000 to 50,000 at a time. Should be no problem for the "Second city".
    Second to none, my friend. The name "Second City" comes from rebuilding the city after the fire.

    FFFRED is telling it like it is. From now on he's my spokesman.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire1080
    Chicago FF have you heard about the hiring?
    Not a thing officially. But I have friends involved (involved meaning they took the test too) so I always try to listen for news. If I hear anything firm I will post it.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Default thanks

    Thanks Chicago FF

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    Second to none, my friend. The name "Second City" comes from rebuilding the city after the fire.

    FFFRED is telling it like it is. From now on he's my spokesman.
    Ok Ok...I'll let that one slide...no more second city jokes.

    We have a hiring process right now that is being over run with the same racist liberal rhetoric and god help us if they just start hiring persons based solely on their skin color or gender. What a sad day that will be, we will have regressed as a society 100 years...and few will have any qualms about it whatsoever.

    Years ago good moral standing on this job meant you couldn't even have children out of wedlock if you wanted to get the job...today..it means nothing more than not being convicted of a felony. God help both jobs.

    FTM-PTB

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    NOBLE?! You must be out of your mind, perhaps that cold in Alaska has gotten to you. The NOBLE thing to do would be to hire the most qualified people for the job, academically and physically regardless of what color or gender they might be. If I saw a city with the cahoney's to do that, then I would call them Noble. I am happy I didn't take the test, I'll freely admit that. I have something else coming up in my very near future that would perhaps surpass the oppurtunity of becoming a Chicago fireman. That is the reason I didn't take the test. I understand I'll never get a job I didn't test for.

    FDNY has perhaps the most color blind and gender blind testing process one could ever imagine. I'm eagerly awaiting the outcome of the Dept. of Justice report on their hiring practices.

    The process to become an FDNY firefighter, like what FFFRED stated is this::

    - Take an objective multiple choice written test with 15,000-20,000 of your closest friends. Administered by a completely seperate city agency (Dept. of Citywide Administrative Services)
    - Wait an awful long time and take the physical agility test (that up until the last test actually was somewhat of a challenge). The beauty of this test was it was almost all dependent on you, you were the one who started and stopped the clock. There was no way you could say it was a biased process.
    - Get placed on a lost with 8,000-10,000 of your smartest and more physically fit friends
    - Get placed officially on the list based on the two tests weighted at 50% for each portion.
    - Have a thorough background investigation and medical check conducted.
    - After a while, hopefully if you're number was low enough, you will get hired.

    It's quite simple. The FDNY really has absolutely nothing to do with the candidate until the background investigation and their first day at the academy. Now the FDNY is looking to dumb down the physical agility test and whatnot in a direct effort to hire more minorities. The city is being very discriminatory against white males who might perhaps be interested in taking the test to become a firefighter. So much so in fact, the recruiting unit (who is primarily not white) is almost literally going door to door in some neighborhoods offering up applications. The city has come outright and said that they are NOT doing this in any white neighborhoods as most caucasions already know about the upcoming test and the job.

    What it all comes down to is that I don't care who works next to me so long as:

    a. the got the job the right way, legit.
    b. they are physically fit enough to perform the job.
    c. they are there because they want the job, not a paycheck

    Beyond that I don't care. No matter where it is, the best people should be hired, period. There is no reason, justification or anything that tells me that the population of the fire department or other city service should mirror the population of the people it serves, all the does is decrease their effectiveness as a team to do the job properly because of people who got the job simply due to gender or color.

    I believe in this so much in fact that I am against giving veterans bonus points on civil service exams.......and I'm IN the military!!

    It should be a 100% level playing field for everyone coming on. Whether you have a bachelor degree, a PhD, a purple heart, a certified electrician, black, white, hispanic, male, female...whatever, everyone should have an equal oppurtunity from the starting gate. Whoever scores the highest will have to EARN what they get. You should have to EARN the right to be a Chicago firefighter and EARN the priveledge to wear that uniform. Same as it should be NYC, Philadelphia....anywhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by pedalinmedic
    i never said chicago was retarded. I think that it is very noble trying to have the city services reflect the population it serves.

    in the ideal world merit based is a perfect system. but my wife is crazy smart and would score 100 percent on any civil service test put in front of her. does that mean she should get the job before me?? what about the fact that she is 5ft 5inches, and 105 lbs soaking wet, with 21 percent body fat. she admits that there is no way she could do the job, physically that is.

    This was never a merit based test, it was never advert. as such. it was a pass/fail test. merit dosent fit into this picture.

    i agree that if you and i are evenly matched in all aspects, and you score one point better than i...the sure you get the job. But do you really want to perform a battery of test on 17000+ applicants? How much would that cost the city?

    I am a fan of no nonsense fire/ems. you have to do what is practical.

    like i said, i see both sides of this case.

    But if i remember correctly you didnt even take the chicago test? you spoke of wasting time and money and you were glad that you didnt. I researched CFD, and i bought the plane ticket (from alaska), i got the hotel room. Im not in the top 1200, but it was an investment nonetheless. FACT: you cant get the job if you dont take the test.

    I wonder what your opinions would be if you did indeed take the test, and you were in the top 500??

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