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Thread: Chicago Fire Exam, March 2006

  1. #341
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    I live in NJ and got my letter today, I got qualified, SS# ends in 3 and i was randomly assigned #68xx and so it begins...........


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    The funny thing is I was actually considering spending the money to go to Chicago to take this test. I'm absolutely happy now that I didn't waste my money doing so. I feel bad for all of those who did and are getting screwed.

    Don't worry though, it's not just Chicago that is screwing with things to get people on the job who don't deserve the job. FDNY is doing the same thing, they're getting ready to make the physical easier, they're going to use the standard CPAT apparently for the next test. The prior test was similar to the CPAT but they made it harder, more competitive....the way it should be. The step mill time was 5 min. and 20 seconds as opposed to the 3 min. and change in the CPAT, among other differences.

    Philly, talk about a fire department that is going down the tubes. Once a great fire department, busy, full of good guys, now...still pretty busy but full of a bunch of morons who just go to work for the paycheck. The city panders to those who can't get on the job the legit way.

    It's happening everywhere and I agree, it's disgusting to be able to literally watch our country fall apart. Many think this is what is needed to solidify our country, I disagree, it's just ruining our country.

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    The above message that was just posted is possibly the best message I have ever read! I agree 100% with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMPchick
    i've also got Veteran's prefence
    Everyone with Veteran's prefernce: Does your letter say that you have Veteran's prefence? My Husband has it too but it doesn't say in the letter. He got a number in the lower 3000's

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicagomen
    Everyone with Veteran's prefernce: Does your letter say that you have Veteran's prefence? My Husband has it too but it doesn't say in the letter. He got a number in the lower 3000's
    Yes, mine says it in the letter. I would definitely look into that. I still don't understand how they are incorporating that into these random numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmcconn1
    Yes, mine says it in the letter. I would definitely look into that. I still don't understand how they are incorporating that into these random numbers.
    i think that they just randomly selected people becuase its obviously is not by SSN

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmcconn1
    Yes, mine says it in the letter. I would definitely look into that.
    Maybe someone can help me and tell me who I should/could contact now. The Fire Departments's Personnel Divison?

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    Question Just wondering....

    Some of you have gripes with how the testing process for the CFD went. Is it because more minorities have the chance to become FF? Just wondering how everyone feels about it b/c evidently that's what this is about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toyamsu
    Some of you have gripes with how the testing process for the CFD went. Is it because more minorities have the chance to become FF? Just wondering how everyone feels about it b/c evidently that's what this is about.

    It would seem most are concerned about the lowering of standards to hire persons that are unfit for the job of a fireman...that includes persons of all races I'm sure.

    FTM-PTB

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    Default i dont think thats what its about at all

    I think most people who took the test (most being the ones that are whining) failed to research CFD aside from watching backdraft. If you had researched CFD you would have known how difficult getting a fair shake was going to be (in relation to strictly test scores). The city has been proclaiming for the past year that it is their intention bring diversity to the CFD, and that is what they are going to do.
    Should CFD take the best test takers? NO. The test is merely a minimum standard. The physical agility is a minimum standard. The minimum that it takes to be a firefighter. Did CFD make the minimum standard easier to reach, yes they did. Does it make it easier to pass, sure...but itís easier for everyone.

    CFD will do what it has to do to diversify the department, but I can assure you that the standards will not be lowered in the academy (well I canít assure you, but I am assuming...) Will minorities get hiring preference, sure. But if they canít do the job then I will bet they will be weeded out in the academy.

    What kills me is that a select few think they are better then the rest of the 17000+ that past the test. Realize this, you are a number.

    If you wanted to get a better shake, they you should have checked other when it asked about race. Or not answer it at all.

    I do see both spectrums of the argument. After all I am a crusty, almost too old to get hired, white male.



    It is what it is folks, complaining isnít going to change your score or give you enhancement points.
    Last edited by pedalinmedic; 10-03-2006 at 11:29 AM.

  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalinmedic
    I think most people who took the test (most being the ones that are whining) failed to research CFD aside from watching backdraft. If you had researched CFD you would have known how difficult getting a fair shake was going to be (in relation to strictly test scores). The city has been proclaiming for the past year that it is their intention bring diversity to the CFD, and that is what they are going to do.
    Should CFD take the best test takers? NO. The test is merely a minimum standard. The physical agility is a minimum standard. The minimum that it takes to be a firefighter. Did CFD make the minimum standard easier to reach, yes they did. Does it make it easier to pass, sure...but itís easier for everyone.

    CFD will do what it has to do to diversify the department, but I can assure you that the standards will not be lowered in the academy (well I canít assure you, but I am assuming...) Will minorities get hiring preference, sure. But if they canít do the job then I will bet they will be weeded out in the academy.

    What kills me is that a select few think they are better then the rest of the 17000+ that past the test. Realize this, you are a number.

    If you wanted to get a better shake, they you should have checked other when it asked about race. Or not answer it at all.

    I do see both spectrums of the argument. After all I am a crusty, almost too old to get hired, white male.

    It is what it is folks, complaining isnít going to change your score or give you enhancement points.
    I disagree with you on a lot of that. I do agree, that people should have known what they were getting into and that Chicago is retarded when it comes to their hiring practices.

    Where I disagree, is with the minimums etc. Yes, the written and physical agility tests are minimums and whatnot. The stupid way the city does their list rules out the people that did better on the written test. It's quite simple, the way the civil service system NON DISCRIMINITORILY operates on the merit system. You score 100 on the test, I score a 98 on the test, you get the job. Simple as that. There is no random assigning of numbers, that's BS.

    There is no reason ANYONE (going on a limb here that will **** people off, even Vets, and I'm in the Air Force) should have a hiring preference. It should be 100% merit based, period.

    You say the crappy ones will be weeded out in the academy, the crappy white guys yea, the crappy females and miniorities....nope. They'll sail right through and be handed accolades upon graduation simply because of their color or gender. It happens in every major city, Philly, NY....everywhere. The politicians pander to anyone who's not a white male and they are absolutely afraid to ever discilpline or tell how it is to a minority or a female because they're worried about discrimination lawsuits. The sad part, is the fact that there is NO discrimination, but in court it will win because someone whines enough and the courts are afraid to be labeled as Klan members or something, who knows.

    Either way, it's a joke and it's a perfect example of our eroding society and I honestly can't stand people for it. Suck it up, what happened to the generation of our parents? How did everything go down hill so rapidly???

  12. #352
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    Default merit based....

    i never said chicago was retarded. I think that it is very noble trying to have the city services reflect the population it serves.

    in the ideal world merit based is a perfect system. but my wife is crazy smart and would score 100 percent on any civil service test put in front of her. does that mean she should get the job before me?? what about the fact that she is 5ft 5inches, and 105 lbs soaking wet, with 21 percent body fat. she admits that there is no way she could do the job, physically that is.

    This was never a merit based test, it was never advert. as such. it was a pass/fail test. merit dosent fit into this picture.

    i agree that if you and i are evenly matched in all aspects, and you score one point better than i...the sure you get the job. But do you really want to perform a battery of test on 17000+ applicants? How much would that cost the city?

    I am a fan of no nonsense fire/ems. you have to do what is practical.

    like i said, i see both sides of this case.

    But if i remember correctly you didnt even take the chicago test? you spoke of wasting time and money and you were glad that you didnt. I researched CFD, and i bought the plane ticket (from alaska), i got the hotel room. Im not in the top 1200, but it was an investment nonetheless. FACT: you cant get the job if you dont take the test.

    I wonder what your opinions would be if you did indeed take the test, and you were in the top 500??
    Last edited by pedalinmedic; 10-03-2006 at 04:32 PM.

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalinmedic
    i never said chicago was retarded. I think that it is very noble trying to have the city services reflect the population it serves.
    Why is that noble? Wouldn't an employer municipal or otherwise only want the best and brightest they can hire for any job...be it a police officer, bridge mechanic, bus driver or fireman...regardless of the color of their skin? Didn't MLK want his kids to be judged by their character and not the color of their skin? How do your comments reflect on your bias against white applicants?

    Are white firemen incapable of providing fire protection services to a largely Black population? Or are you saying blacks should only work in areas that are predominantly Black? Which is it?, we are all dying to know.

    Why is it the city in its quest to increase the number of minorities on the job...reduced the job requirements to just being barely qualified? If they have x number of jobs to fill and an adequate number of applicants, shouldn't they be hiring those who are most qualified and prepared for that job? Isn't this a bit insulting to the class of people you feel so noble about helping?

    Should we also start choosing....
    -Astronauts
    -Airline pilots
    -Brain Surgens
    -Lawyers (especially if you are sitting trial for murder)
    -Police officers
    -Your Tax accountant
    -Teachers for your children
    -Wide recievers for your favorite football team,
    -Forwards for your favorite basketball team.
    -Soliders, Sailors and Marines...

    All based on some subjective criteria based solely on the color of ones skin or being a member of a group who just happen to be under represented or that would like a well paying job.

    I suppose that there are no agencies in Chicago that are disporportionally black and hispanic are there? I know here in NYC there are...yet I don't see the outcry to recruit lots of white males to balance out the numbers so that they properly reflect the census numbers...as if that has anything to do with job performance!

    in the ideal world merit based is a perfect system. but my wife is crazy smart and would score 100 percent on any civil service test put in front of her. does that mean she should get the job before me?? what about the fact that she is 5ft 5inches, and 105 lbs soaking wet, with 21 percent body fat. she admits that there is no way she could do the job, physically that is.

    This was never a merit based test, it was never advert. as such. it was a pass/fail test. merit dosent fit into this picture.
    Your first example is spurious as the most fair hiring systems in the country that only use written and physical scores combine both to ensure that one factor isn't overlooked. If you are going to make an argument, at least do us the favor of making it based on facts.

    Besides the fact...if your wife "meets" the bare minimum of requirements she should of course be provided a firemans job...before you, even though by your own admition you are more physically qualified than her.

    The point is that they should be moving towards more of a merit based system that aliviates all bias towards one race or another...it should simply reward those who excell and those who take the effort to prepare themselves for said job. Not reward one race over another by skewing or dumbing down the exam to allow for those at the bottom to rise above those who worked hard to achive something in their lives.

    There were many systems of government that were similar to what you apparently subscribe too in this world, where everyone is treated as equal and indiviual success and achivement for onesself was trampled upon and dampened by an oppressive regime. Most of them are gone now (hint:they had a hammer and sickle on their red flag, comrade )

    i agree that if you and i are evenly matched in all aspects, and you score one point better than i...the sure you get the job. But do you really want to perform a battery of test on 17000+ applicants? How much would that cost the city?
    I'm sure it would cost less than it costs NYC who routinely subcribes to Merit based hiring standards and has been doing it for the better part of a century due to the same problem Chicago is famous for...coruption. It has worked well too. In the past few decades they have tested 30,000 to 50,000 at a time. Should be no problem for the "Second city".

    I am a fan of no nonsense fire/ems. you have to do what is practical.
    like i said, i see both sides of this case.
    What is practical is rewarding hard work and achivement. A person spends their life...doing well in school, staying physically fit and keeps themsevles of a high moral character (aka-out of jail) then if they happen to score better on a standardized exam for a job...they deserve the first shot before the others...yes in a very measurable and objective manner...they are better than all the others.

    "Practical" is getting the most physically fit, mentally capable and moraly sound individuals to execute and uphold the finest duties and traditions of the Chicago Fire Department.

    Diluting that in any way, shape or manner should be viewed as nothing less than unacceptable.

    There was a time in this country when we would reward hard work and perserverance...apparently that is no more. We can't offend anyone who might be too lazy, unmotivated or uninterested in a particular job by telling them, someone else worked harder and deserves the job more than you.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 10-03-2006 at 05:23 PM.

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    Why does everyone on the forum keep suggesting that holding a pass/fail test exclusively benefits minorities? Does anyone have a problem with a white male scoring 71 and getting the job?
    I agree with fffred that an equally rated physical/ qritten exam is the best bet. I just want to emphasize again, that scoring 100 doesn't make you the "best qualified". I know plenty of book smart guys who are lousy firefighters. Lastly, the city doesn't owe you a job. Keep testing.

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    Does anyone have a problem with a white male scoring 71 and getting the job?

    Yes... if there are several thousand ahead of him, who scored better, and are better qualified

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    Default response to FFFRED

    FFFRED,

    I should have prefaced my comment with "some food for thought", I apologize if it was understood that my comments are how I personally feel.

    Also, you are preaching to the choir. I like to look at both sides of a conversation, and since most of the post in this forum has been negative in regards to the CFD testing, I like to mix it up. Furthermore I want to thank you for a response that required thought and time to materialize.

    I know that everything I have done since the age of 14 has prepared me for being a FF. I once was a career FF, and for the pursuit of knowledge I relocated to attend university. However I did so knowing that a degree is not going to help me at all until it comes time for promotions.

    There are somethingís I would like to add about your comments, especially about FDNY. The following was reported in the New York daily news on 9/20/06.

    "The city also changed the FDNY application requirements, no longer making 30 college credits or two years of military duty the standard for applicants. Anyone with a year of college, six months' work experience or an honorable discharge from the military is now eligible."
    "The goal is to make the department more representative of the people we serve," Scoppetta said."

    So i guess that FDNY is another employer that wants its employees to represent its population?? and is making it easier to test?

    Also the hiring practices of FDNY have recently gained the attention of the Justice System, prompting a special call city council meeting this week.

    In additon, right now there are 5 cases going before the New York Supreme Court against the FDNY for unfair promotions against women in the EMS division.

    FDNY has a long history of Nepotism, bribery and good ol'boy hiring practices. This is no secret. Your dad on the job, come aboard. You say your brother is at 93 engine, come aboard. So hows your aunt coping since you lost your uncle at 911? Oh, here's your turnouts.

    more food for thought: why do you think there are so many irish and italian cops/firefighters in new york? it was the only job they could get during the great immigration?? howd they get those jobs? Connections to politicians.

    With departments this size and traditions this deep, corruption will always exist!


    Is gaire cabhair de na an doras
    Virtete et Valare Luceo Non Uro

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    A friend of mine tested in 1995 and was lucky enough to be hired in the first class. He told me that they had to go through approximately 800 people to fill his class. He also said that every class thereafter they went through more and more people on the list. I don't know about anybody reading this that took the test, but myself, and at least 15 other people I know that tested, already have full-time jobs and took the test as a "What the Hell, I have nothing to lose" type attitude. I know that many people will turn the job down, fail the physical, drug test, or whatever. If they decide to start at random number 1 and go up, and you have a crappy number like myself, keep a positive attitude and maybe we'll be in the academy together. Good Luck to all!

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    I agree with you Chicago1, Ive been saying that to my friends. Just because your number is in the 13,000 DOESN"T mean you have no chance. Look at the test and how easy it was, anybody could have passed that test. They will go through several thousand numbers on this test to get the right guys in. I have heard that they may hire around 1200 with the new list, if you honestly believe that those with numbers 1-1200 are all going to be the ones hired, well then thats just silly.
    Last edited by Outlet05; 10-03-2006 at 10:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalinmedic
    FFFRED,

    I should have prefaced my comment with "some food for thought", I apologize if it was understood that my comments are how I personally feel.

    Also, you are preaching to the choir. I like to look at both sides of a conversation, and since most of the post in this forum has been negative in regards to the CFD testing, I like to mix it up. Furthermore I want to thank you for a response that required thought and time to materialize.

    I know that everything I have done since the age of 14 has prepared me for being a FF. I once was a career FF, and for the pursuit of knowledge I relocated to attend university. However I did so knowing that a degree is not going to help me at all until it comes time for promotions.

    There are somethingís I would like to add about your comments, especially about FDNY. The following was reported in the New York daily news on 9/20/06.

    "The city also changed the FDNY application requirements, no longer making 30 college credits or two years of military duty the standard for applicants. Anyone with a year of college, six months' work experience or an honorable discharge from the military is now eligible."
    "The goal is to make the department more representative of the people we serve," Scoppetta said."

    So i guess that FDNY is another employer that wants its employees to represent its population?? and is making it easier to test?
    You've made some interesting comments/charges, I will do my best to provide some relevant context to them.

    Most don't disagree with the removal of the College credits.(only 3 exams since the late 90s have required them) and thus most guys got hired without them. It is the reasoning behind the issue...if they change the scoring, questions, events or weight the exam in any way to favor the hiring of one particular race over another(or gender)...then that is completely and categorically wrong in every manner and capacity.

    Also the hiring practices of FDNY have recently gained the attention of the Justice System, prompting a special call city council meeting this week.
    First lets set something straight. There is no FDNY hiring. There is NYC hiring through the agency that does so for all job titles...DCAS. The FDNY has no choice who takes or passes the exam. Period. BTW, DCAS adminsters the exams for all job titles, even the ones that are predominantly black and latino or female...much more so than the census numbers would indicate

    Second the Justice dept (not system) is involved simply because of a Black fireman's group complained that not enough minorities are being hired by the FDNY. (note: these race baiters don't consider the hispanics as minorities) the hispanic males have been getting on in greater numbers for more than a decade now and without problems and without whining like c*nts to the Feds either. They studdied hard in school, stayed physically fit and maintained a high moral character. (stayed out of jail) Thus they have been rewared with decent paying civil service jobs and can support their familes.

    In additon, right now there are 5 cases going before the New York Supreme Court against the FDNY for unfair promotions against women in the EMS division.
    There are 12 jobs deputy chiefs jobs on the EMS side. 6 are currently women! Thats right 50% are women, in direct proportion to your noble population statistics and these 5 women have the balls (some probably do) to claim that women in FDNY EMS are descriminated against in the deputies rank! (btw they have as much to do with the FDNY as pig latin has to quantum physics)

    FDNY has a long history of Nepotism, bribery and good ol'boy hiring practices. This is no secret. Your dad on the job, come aboard. You say your brother is at 93 engine, come aboard. So hows your aunt coping since you lost your uncle at 911? Oh, here's your turnouts.
    Really? No secret? Do you know something we don't? That history you speak of is from over 100 years ago...get with the times. Your father no matter who he is, has no bearing on your getting hired if you don't have a list number from you passing the written and physical with an excellent passing score, you can forget it as far as getting on the job. I know a few guys who sons never got on because they couldn't pass or didn't take the exam. It is obvious you are attempting to pass off a lie as truth. You are hired in order of list number once the list is promulgated....period. No pop-time will get you hired any faster or enable one to circumvent the civil service system.

    more food for thought: why do you think there are so many irish and italian cops/firefighters in new york? it was the only job they could get during the great immigration?? howd they get those jobs? Connections to politicians.
    First the Irish and Italians took the jobs because they were in many cases all they were qualified for and the only jobs they could get. They were tough, unforgiving jobs that demanded more time away from home than most other jobs outside active enlistment in the military. That is why...not as much patronage was involved in the lower level jobs. Patronage played a much larger role in higher ranks by far.

    Furthermore this occurred back 100 years ago when Tammany Hall ruled the roost. You apparently missed the part about civil service hiring laws and how they eliminated poltical patronage for these job titles. The last guy who got hired under the pretenses you claim on here probably died during the first half of the LAST century!

    With departments this size and traditions this deep, corruption will always exist!
    Without a doubt, Ours at least is 100 years ahead of Chicago's and that is what I percive to be most persons complaints regarding this exam. They don't reward hard work and superior physical abilities. They encourage and reward mediocrity.

    Some day if you should leave Alaska and live in Chicago, you will truely understand the meaning of your comments and how they are percived by us; those who tried hard to achive something in this country without recieving a handout or largess

    Best of luck...for your sake I hope you never come to realize the failings of your logic on the job. You might not see the following day because of it.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 10-03-2006 at 11:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlet05
    I agree with you Chicago1, Ive been saying that to my friends. Just because your number is in the 13,000 DOESN"T mean you have no chance. Look at the test and how easy it was, anybody could have passed that test. They will go through several thousand numbers on this test to get the right guys in. I have heard that they may hire around 1200 with the new list, if you honestly believe that those with numbers 1-1200 are all going to be the ones hired, well then thats just silly.
    exactly, whos to say they will even start at number 1? they might just pick random numbers just like they assigned

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