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Thread: Chicago Fire Exam, March 2006

  1. #361
    MembersZone Subscriber JHR1985's Avatar
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    I'm sure I can find some relative of mine that is Native American. Would that help me in the minority race?


    Yes... my great great great grandfather was Chief Cowabunga of the tribe Gimme Gimme Joba.

    Just because of that, does that make me a better firefighter than the rest?

    Just face it. This problem is getting more and more frequent in the fire service and its a problem that is going to persist till department start taking a stand, demanding that the fire service quit watering itself down.

    No one is saying that minorities dont make good firefighters. What people are complaining about is the ones who get passed over who are BETTER qualified than the ones getting hired just because they are not a minority. If I get passed over because there is a minority that is more qualified than I am, I wont be happy but it will be only my fault, not his. For the most part though, the Chicago test is not like that. They are passing over thousands of qualified people just because of their skin, race, and/or sex


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    They are passing over thousands of qualified people just because of their skin, race, and/or sex

    You do realize that out of the 25k who took the test, there will be a black, female, jew, who scored 100% and still won't get hired because of the random system, don't you?

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    Thumbs down

    I thought this was a forum to discuss things and not bash other races and jump down peoples throat for a comment that is made.....its gettin pretty bad in here!

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    You are 100% correct. Got caught up in the kitchen table b***ch session. I personally will refrain from reading or writing anymore posts that are not informative or constructive. Thanks for bringing me back down cap.

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    Default CFD Test

    This is what I was told by a FF/Medic in Chicago I do not know how much is right or wrong, but his dad been on the job for 30 + years. Anyway here it goes he told my that each academy class has to be fulled with 10% paramedics from CFD. over the last few years they where unable to do so. They need to hire Medics. They are going to send out info packets to all the people that passed and the ones that are paramedics already for what ever department or ambulance service will go to the top. As far as the # they are just your assigned # if you have friends that took the test you will see they started with last dig of SS at 0 and worked there way down for your assigned #. I am in the 15,000.if you read the letter they then will pick random # for the hiring steps.They are expecting to go thur 1000 or more to get one academy class. he said the last class they went thur 2500 to get the class fulled. I have 8 members of the department that took the test. They are in diff. spots according to there SS. Now you als need to take in the fact that you have to take the EMT course in the academy and at the pass the IL State test which is now the national reg test which is very hard. I know for a fact. The test is harder then the old IL State test alot of folks have failed and took it 3 times which is the max # of times then you have to take the class again. So you will have maybe 60 - 50 % of the academy class get out of the academy onto the job. My friend also told me they are adding more BLS ambulance and more ALS Engine's.

    one thing every one needs to remember there are alot of full time, POC and Vollies you took the test that are very well trained for the job.

    Here are the # 54% whites passed 21% of blacks passed 20% hisp. and the rest was native amer. that for the news in Chicago.

    Me and my friends look at it this way if they call us fine if not it's ok but we all work for a busy dept. Chicago is a dream job for all of us we would all love to work for the city of Chicago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalinmedic
    more food for thought: why do you think there are so many irish and italian cops/firefighters in new york? it was the only job they could get during the great immigration?? howd they get those jobs? Connections to politicians.

    Is gaire cabhair de na an doras
    Virtete et Valare Luceo Non Uro
    Are you kidding me??? They got those jobs because they couldn't get any other jobs. No one wanted to be a fireman in the old days. It paid next to nothing, 24 on 24 off, they couldn't give the job away. Even in 1970 when my chief came on, he walked on because no one really wanted the job. My great grand father was a Chicago police captain. He got the job while he was digging a ditch and a cop came along and asked if any of them could read or write. He could and was hired that day. The Irish and Italians got the job because they are the only ones who wanted the crappy jobs!
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Default Chicago test

    I am checking with other CFD guys to see what they heard

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire1080
    They need to hire Medics. They are going to send out info packets to all the people that passed and the ones that are paramedics already for what ever department or ambulance service will go to the top.
    I wouldn't count on that. We have tons of our own medics already on the job looking to cross over. The reason they ran short is that to cross over a medic would have had to take the test. They were running out of guys who took the '95 test. Now they have a whole fresh batch of our own guys to hire from. Maybe emt-p will help you, but like I said - I wouldn't count on it.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Default Cfd

    Chicago FF have you heard about the hiring?

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    Default medics

    only 6% at passed where CFD medics that what he said

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    I'm sure it would cost less than it costs NYC who routinely subcribes to Merit based hiring standards and has been doing it for the better part of a century due to the same problem Chicago is famous for...coruption. It has worked well too. In the past few decades they have tested 30,000 to 50,000 at a time. Should be no problem for the "Second city".
    Second to none, my friend. The name "Second City" comes from rebuilding the city after the fire.

    FFFRED is telling it like it is. From now on he's my spokesman.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire1080
    Chicago FF have you heard about the hiring?
    Not a thing officially. But I have friends involved (involved meaning they took the test too) so I always try to listen for news. If I hear anything firm I will post it.
    I am a complacent liability to the fire service

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    Default thanks

    Thanks Chicago FF

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    Second to none, my friend. The name "Second City" comes from rebuilding the city after the fire.

    FFFRED is telling it like it is. From now on he's my spokesman.
    Ok Ok...I'll let that one slide...no more second city jokes.

    We have a hiring process right now that is being over run with the same racist liberal rhetoric and god help us if they just start hiring persons based solely on their skin color or gender. What a sad day that will be, we will have regressed as a society 100 years...and few will have any qualms about it whatsoever.

    Years ago good moral standing on this job meant you couldn't even have children out of wedlock if you wanted to get the job...today..it means nothing more than not being convicted of a felony. God help both jobs.

    FTM-PTB

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    NOBLE?! You must be out of your mind, perhaps that cold in Alaska has gotten to you. The NOBLE thing to do would be to hire the most qualified people for the job, academically and physically regardless of what color or gender they might be. If I saw a city with the cahoney's to do that, then I would call them Noble. I am happy I didn't take the test, I'll freely admit that. I have something else coming up in my very near future that would perhaps surpass the oppurtunity of becoming a Chicago fireman. That is the reason I didn't take the test. I understand I'll never get a job I didn't test for.

    FDNY has perhaps the most color blind and gender blind testing process one could ever imagine. I'm eagerly awaiting the outcome of the Dept. of Justice report on their hiring practices.

    The process to become an FDNY firefighter, like what FFFRED stated is this::

    - Take an objective multiple choice written test with 15,000-20,000 of your closest friends. Administered by a completely seperate city agency (Dept. of Citywide Administrative Services)
    - Wait an awful long time and take the physical agility test (that up until the last test actually was somewhat of a challenge). The beauty of this test was it was almost all dependent on you, you were the one who started and stopped the clock. There was no way you could say it was a biased process.
    - Get placed on a lost with 8,000-10,000 of your smartest and more physically fit friends
    - Get placed officially on the list based on the two tests weighted at 50% for each portion.
    - Have a thorough background investigation and medical check conducted.
    - After a while, hopefully if you're number was low enough, you will get hired.

    It's quite simple. The FDNY really has absolutely nothing to do with the candidate until the background investigation and their first day at the academy. Now the FDNY is looking to dumb down the physical agility test and whatnot in a direct effort to hire more minorities. The city is being very discriminatory against white males who might perhaps be interested in taking the test to become a firefighter. So much so in fact, the recruiting unit (who is primarily not white) is almost literally going door to door in some neighborhoods offering up applications. The city has come outright and said that they are NOT doing this in any white neighborhoods as most caucasions already know about the upcoming test and the job.

    What it all comes down to is that I don't care who works next to me so long as:

    a. the got the job the right way, legit.
    b. they are physically fit enough to perform the job.
    c. they are there because they want the job, not a paycheck

    Beyond that I don't care. No matter where it is, the best people should be hired, period. There is no reason, justification or anything that tells me that the population of the fire department or other city service should mirror the population of the people it serves, all the does is decrease their effectiveness as a team to do the job properly because of people who got the job simply due to gender or color.

    I believe in this so much in fact that I am against giving veterans bonus points on civil service exams.......and I'm IN the military!!

    It should be a 100% level playing field for everyone coming on. Whether you have a bachelor degree, a PhD, a purple heart, a certified electrician, black, white, hispanic, male, female...whatever, everyone should have an equal oppurtunity from the starting gate. Whoever scores the highest will have to EARN what they get. You should have to EARN the right to be a Chicago firefighter and EARN the priveledge to wear that uniform. Same as it should be NYC, Philadelphia....anywhere.


    Quote Originally Posted by pedalinmedic
    i never said chicago was retarded. I think that it is very noble trying to have the city services reflect the population it serves.

    in the ideal world merit based is a perfect system. but my wife is crazy smart and would score 100 percent on any civil service test put in front of her. does that mean she should get the job before me?? what about the fact that she is 5ft 5inches, and 105 lbs soaking wet, with 21 percent body fat. she admits that there is no way she could do the job, physically that is.

    This was never a merit based test, it was never advert. as such. it was a pass/fail test. merit dosent fit into this picture.

    i agree that if you and i are evenly matched in all aspects, and you score one point better than i...the sure you get the job. But do you really want to perform a battery of test on 17000+ applicants? How much would that cost the city?

    I am a fan of no nonsense fire/ems. you have to do what is practical.

    like i said, i see both sides of this case.

    But if i remember correctly you didnt even take the chicago test? you spoke of wasting time and money and you were glad that you didnt. I researched CFD, and i bought the plane ticket (from alaska), i got the hotel room. Im not in the top 1200, but it was an investment nonetheless. FACT: you cant get the job if you dont take the test.

    I wonder what your opinions would be if you did indeed take the test, and you were in the top 500??

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    Question Interesting...

    Quote Originally Posted by JHR1985
    I'm sure I can find some relative of mine that is Native American. Would that help me in the minority race?


    Yes... my great great great grandfather was Chief Cowabunga of the tribe Gimme Gimme Joba.

    Just because of that, does that make me a better firefighter than the rest?

    Just face it. This problem is getting more and more frequent in the fire service and its a problem that is going to persist till department start taking a stand, demanding that the fire service quit watering itself down.

    No one is saying that minorities dont make good firefighters. What people are complaining about is the ones who get passed over who are BETTER qualified than the ones getting hired just because they are not a minority. If I get passed over because there is a minority that is more qualified than I am, I wont be happy but it will be only my fault, not his. For the most part though, the Chicago test is not like that. They are passing over thousands of qualified people just because of their skin, race, and/or sex
    My husband tested for the Detroit FF and passed the written as well as the physical. Out of the group that tested along with him, the majority were white men. When the class for this same group started, only 5 minorities were chosen and thirty-something white men were chosen.

    So my question is this, if you are a minority but you do excellent on all tests given to qualify, why are you not chosen to become a FF? Also, these white men who were chosen, are not even residents of Detroit and some not even in MI! You have to agree that something is wrong with this picture.

    FF should be hired on merit you say? If a white man and a minority had the same qualifications, etc., who do you think will be hired first?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    We have a hiring process right now that is being over run with the same racist liberal rhetoric and god help us if they just start hiring persons based solely on their skin color or gender. What a sad day that will be, we will have regressed as a society 100 years...and few will have any qualms about it whatsoever.

    FTM-PTB
    It's happened before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toyamsu
    My husband tested for the Detroit FF and passed the written as well as the physical. Out of the group that tested along with him, the majority were white men. When the class for this same group started, only 5 minorities were chosen and thirty-something white men were chosen.

    So my question is this, if you are a minority but you do excellent on all tests given to qualify, why are you not chosen to become a FF? Also, these white men who were chosen, are not even residents of Detroit and some not even in MI! You have to agree that something is wrong with this picture.

    FF should be hired on merit you say? If a white man and a minority had the same qualifications, etc., who do you think will be hired first?
    I'm not that familiar with Detroits hiring system. However what you describe isn't a civil service merit and fitness based system. If he had a list number and was hired in order of the list number that is based solely on a objective written and physical exam score and someone who had a number beneath him got hired ahead of him, that would be a problem...but it doesn't sound like that is the type of system you are using? Am I correct?

    Regardless of white or black...no race should get preference. The most mentally capable and physically fit canidates who have high moral standing should get the jobs first period.

    FTM-PTB

    PS-As for only 5 men being minorities...as long as all 30 something men are the most qualifed and the top scorers on a sandardized exam (physical and written) then there is nothing wrong with it at all. Just the same if an exam was given and the top 30 passers where black men and only 5 white men got jobs...as long as it is based on thier individual performance and the top 35 men were taken regardless of race.

    There is nothing inherantly wrong with the situation you mention above.
    Last edited by FFFRED; 10-04-2006 at 01:54 PM.

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    But how can you said that when clearly, whites and minorities don't get the same opportunities and same fair judgement? I guess my whole point is, (and then after this, I'll leave it alone), is the these so-called tests don't ensure the city that they're getting the best FF. You could pass every test imaginable but when it comes to actually doing the job, then you will see who is best "qualified". The hiring process will always be under-handed no matter how it's sugar-coated. Someone, somewhere will always feel like they didn't get a fair shake.

    I wish everyone who took the CFD test, or any other tests, good luck and God bless!

    P.S., my husband still hasn't gotten his test yet. Do you think he should call personnel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toyamsu
    But how can you said that when clearly, whites and minorities don't get the same opportunities and same fair judgement? I guess my whole point is, (and then after this, I'll leave it alone), is the these so-called tests don't ensure the city that they're getting the best FF. You could pass every test imaginable but when it comes to actually doing the job, then you will see who is best "qualified". The hiring process will always be under-handed no matter how it's sugar-coated. Someone, somewhere will always feel like they didn't get a fair shake.

    I wish everyone who took the CFD test, or any other tests, good luck and God bless!

    P.S., my husband still hasn't gotten his test yet. Do you think he should call personnel?
    What are you talking about?

    Did your husband have the opportunity to take the exam?

    Did he take the same exam as everyone else and have it graded exactly the same as everyone else?

    Did the exam measure relevant mental abilities and physical fitness necessary for the job?

    Did he keep himself in high moral standing and keep out of serious trouble with the law?

    If you answered yes to the above questions...then he had the same opportunity as everyone else.

    How is it he "clearly" didn't have the same opportunity? No exam process is perfect but this is the only objective and legal method that has been proven to measure applicable skills for a very important job.

    Do you disagree?

    FTM-PTB

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