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Thread: Chicago Fire Exam, March 2006

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue2520 View Post
    Well anyone that was worried about age...You're out. The ones that just took the PAT, it's gonna be years before they get to us if ever. The ones that are waiting for that final letter..better hold on to your jobs cause you ain't goin anywhere..
    They wont ever put all them in one class they wouldnt be accepted in any firehouse in the city. they would probably sprikle a few with the new list. Those guys would be so outcast it wouldnt be funny.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 4leafclover View Post
    How are they gonna hire 132 of them? Most are probably to old. I doubt if they can find that many who wont take the money. I think they still have to have the qualifactions ( age, drug, backround, and pass pat, etc.) what a blow to us waiting. I just took pat in april. If its not one thing its another...
    Our test (2006 test) had a age limit of 38....the 1995 test they took has no age limit....they will find 132 out of the 6,000 to take this job...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bugsy2007 View Post
    Our test (2006 test) had a age limit of 38....the 1995 test they took has no age limit....they will find 132 out of the 6,000 to take this job...
    It will be easier to know whose in the lawsuit when you have a 45 year grey headed black guy next to you in the acadamy or worse coming into a firehouse. What a joke!!!!!! They come in with seniority & pay. REverse racism at it finest.

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    Man gets second chance to try to fulfill firefighter dream
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    May 24, 2010

    BY FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter
    Handy Johnson is a 48-year-old personal trainer whose dream of becoming a Chicago firefighter has been a nightmare for so long, he’s already ten years above the city’s 38-year-old age limit for new hires.

    Today, the U.S. Supreme Court paved the way for Johnson to get another chance, provided he’s lucky enough to be chosen randomly and physically fit enough to perform the strenuous job.

    The high court ruled that Johnson and other bypassed black candidates did not wait too long before filing a lawsuit that accused the Daley administration of discriminating against them for the way it handled a 1995 firefighter’s entrance exam.

    “I took that test wanting to have a job where I could give back to my community and establish a family tradition for my four sons, who would have been very proud of their dad. It was the job of a lifetime, but I was never given that chance,” Johnson said.

    “It was a huge slap in the face. Now, I feel a hundred pounds lighter. It feels like when you know you have all the odds stacked against you, but in the end God makes sure the righteous prevail.”

    Today’s ruling requires the city to hire roughly 120 bypassed black firefighter candidates — and distribute $40 million in damages to 6,000 others who will never get that chance.

    Although he’s closing in on the big 5-0, Johnson is not interested in cashing out. He’s hoping to be one of the 120 candidates randomly chosen to enter the Chicago fire academy.

    The city’s 38-year-old age limit does not apply because the discrimination occurred before the cut-off was established.

    “I’m 48-years-old. I’m still in excellent shape. If they pick me, I should be given that chance. I do personal training. I’m a skill development coach for basketball and body conditioning. It’s a physically-demanding job. I know I can do the job,” Johnson said.

    When Johnson took the 1995 firefighters entrance exam, he was a 33-year-old single dad who had just gotten custody of his eldest son.

    His test score was 75, fourteen points below the city’s arbitrary cut-off for “well-qualified” applicants, 78 percent of whom were white.

    Still Johnson refused to take “no” for an answer. He wanted the job so desperately, he called the city’s Department of Personnel twice-a-week for a decade to check on his status. He made such a pest of himself, city bureaucrats got to know him on a first-name basis.

    “My disappointment was based on one thing: I was looking for a job where I could have security. There’s not many jobs that have security. Chicago Police and Fire were the only ones. Corporate America doesn’t promise you anything,” Johnson said.

    “Given an opportunity, I could have been a lot more than a firefighter. I could have been a community servant. That’s what our community needs: mentors.”

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    Supreme Court: Chicago must hire bypassed black firefighter candidates


    May 24, 2010

    By FRAN SPIELMAN City Hall Reporter
    The Chicago Fire Department must hire roughly 120 bypassed black firefighter candidates — and distribute $40 million in damages to 6,000 others who will never get that chance — thanks to a landmark ruling today by the U.S. Supreme Court.

    “People say, ‘Happy Friday.’ This is Happy Monday. It’s long overdue,” said Annette Nance-Holt, past president of the African-American Firefighters and Paramedics League of Chicago.


    “We had already won before, and the city turned around and appealed. We finally got a favorable ruling that’ll make the city do this. It’s a victory for the community. This is a diverse city, and we need diversity in the Fire Department.”
    By a 9-0 vote, the Supreme Court ruled that bypassed black candidates did not wait too long before filing a lawsuit that accused the city of discriminating against them for the way it handled a 1995 firefighter’s entrance exam.

    When results for minorities were disappointing, the city established a cut-off score of 89 and hired randomly from the top 1,800 “well-qualified” candidates.

    In 2005, a federal judge ruled that the city's decision had the effect of perpetuating the predominantly white status quo, since 78 percent of those ''well-qualified'' candidates were white.

    The clock normally starts running on civil rights cases 300 days after the employment action is taken. The first lawsuit was filed 430 days after the test results were announced.

    But, African-American firefighters maintained — and the Supreme Court agreed — that a new act of discrimination occurred every time the scores were used to hire firefighters between May, 1996 and October, 2001. That’s when the city stopped using 89 as a cut-off point because the number of candidates had run out.

    Plaintiffs’ attorney Matthew Piers said the decision means Chicago must hire roughly 120 African-American firefighters and adjust their pensions as if they had been on the job since 1995. Six-thousand others will share roughly $40 million in damages.

    “They have to immediately put them on. They can’t say, ‘We don’t have the money,’” Piers said.

    If class members are too old to perform the physically demanding job, the damages could top $100 million, Piers said.

    But, they have to at least be offered that chance. The 38-year-old cut-off point for hiring new firefighters, established a few years ago, does not apply.


    “This is a remedial hiring. What trumps the age limit is the fact that, before the cut-off was established, [the city] violated federal law. The courts have the power and the obligation to enforce remedies for violations of federal law,” Piers said.

    Corporation Counsel Mara Georges could not be reached for comment.

    Piers acknowledged that the Supreme Court ruling would be “expensive” at a time when Chicago taxpayers can least afford it. But, he argued that the Daley administration’s intransigence made it worse.

    “We begged them to use the test in a proper manner and avoid this discriminatory impact, and they refused,” Piers said.

    “Had the city simply hired people who passed at random — instead of establishing an arbitrary cut-off that favored whites — there would have been no lawsuit and no loss to taxpayers.”

    Holt argued that the jobs and damages will never be enough to repay the black community for what it lost.

    “There’s that many years people could have been on the job, possibly getting promoted. Think of the economic impact of a firefighter in the community making that type of salary, the visual for young kids,” Holt said.

    “For them to see those types of role models — it means something, especially with [all of the violence] that’s going on now.”




    It seems pretty clear that if they decide to take the job the next class will be from this lawsuit. But the lucky lotto winners do have the option to take all the money upront ($500+k) and walk if they feel that they're too old to take the job. But the 120 have to be atleast offered the job first under the agreement. I'd like to see them all take the huge pay-out and walk... The rest of the 6,000 will split $40mil
    Last edited by blue2520; 05-24-2010 at 04:30 PM.

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    How is the city only required to hire 132 of them? That seems like a drop in the bucket for a dept. of 5,000 and a law suit of around 6,000? Don't get me wrong hiring 1 of them is BS. And also I agree with the prior post. They have to split them up in the academy. No matter what there going to be marked for the duration of there career. But if they had a all black academy nothing good would come of it. Maybe this will speed up the hiring and get some of us in. Even though the classes are going to have to be at least 50/50 if not more. Less of us getting in at a time but at least it would be moving. It is pretty f****** dicouraging though!!

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    Sad day..........
    Last edited by truckman111; 06-02-2010 at 02:43 PM.

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    Hope this doesn't ruin our chances....
    Last edited by truckman111; 07-30-2010 at 05:24 PM.

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    sure is sick unreal i had a guy who passed the test but didnt get the job because he was to young. "He slipped threw the cracks to take test" he sewed and basically the courts told him to goto hell. What a shame for the best dept in the world to face this. They will be a laughing matter and lose all respect. I think all us WHITE PEOPLE should all get togather and sew. Or let see if all 132 people named willie will pass the EMT let alone FF2 and random drug tests man im mad and go on forever

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefanwife View Post
    sure is sick unreal i had a guy who passed the test but didnt get the job because he was to young. "He slipped threw the cracks to take test" he sewed and basically the courts told him to goto hell. What a shame for the best dept in the world to face this. They will be a laughing matter and lose all respect. I think all us WHITE PEOPLE should all get togather and sew. Or let see if all 132 people named willie will pass the EMT let alone FF2 and random drug tests man im mad and go on forever
    kill whitey "all the WHITE PEOPLE" that wat it seems like

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefanwife View Post
    sure is sick unreal i had a guy who passed the test but didnt get the job because he was to young. "He slipped threw the cracks to take test" he sewed and basically the courts told him to goto hell. What a shame for the best dept in the world to face this. They will be a laughing matter and lose all respect. I think all us WHITE PEOPLE should all get togather and sew. Or let see if all 132 people named willie will pass the EMT let alone FF2 and random drug tests man im mad and go on forever
    Obviously none of us waiting are happy about the decision, but comments like the one above are disgraceful. I don't agree that the people should be hired or should be entitled to any handouts, which they didn't earn, but your lack of grammar is disgraceful and I don't want to be included in your group of "white people." I would suggest that this forum remain respectful enough to keep comments more objective. Outlash at me if you want, but I don't like where things appear to be going on here. Like I said, nobody likes the decision, unless you're part of the group who sued, but I think all could react more objectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalsh321 View Post
    Obviously none of us waiting are happy about the decision, but comments like the one above are disgraceful. I don't agree that the people should be hired or should be entitled to any handouts, which they didn't earn, but your lack of grammar is disgraceful and I don't want to be included in your group of "white people." I would suggest that this forum remain respectful enough to keep comments more objective. Outlash at me if you want, but I don't like where things appear to be going on here. Like I said, nobody likes the decision, unless you're part of the group who sued, but I think all could react more objectively.
    Well said and I'm very much in agreement.. Settle down people. This isn't the place.

    This also isn't the end of the world. Most if not all will take the money and run. Would be hard for anyone to turn down over $500k.. Hmm.. Work for a living or take free money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue2520 View Post
    Well said and I'm very much in agreement.. Settle down people. This isn't the place.

    This also isn't the end of the world. Most if not all will take the money and run. Would be hard for anyone to turn down over $500k.. Hmm.. Work for a living or take free money.
    Lets also not forget that this decision has already been made and the supreme court has just re-affirmed the decision, which was previously reversed by the appellate court, so it is not as if this should all be some sort of shock to everyone. hopefully it will all work itself out and the majority will take the money and run as blue said. It may cost us some time, so I feel worst for those that are close to that age cutoff. I believe a couple contributors on here are within 18 months or less, so I hope it works out for them.

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    Actually, this is a good thing.
    Last edited by harrynuts; 11-07-2013 at 10:55 PM.

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    Looks like it might be some time before this is all said and done and you can bet your a** that no class will be taking place till this is all figured out. If and when they have to hire you can bet on that they will go before any of us. As a judge orders the city will do. Just don't forget this come election time.

    Also, this would be a great time for the union to try and broker a deal to get a contract done without going into arbitration. No manning reduction + Same rase as the police + No give backs= No retro checks. Saves the city 15mil and saves face for the Mayor pending any backlash that could come from a maanning reduction, etc during an election cycle.

    Below was taken from the Sun-times

    Corporation Counsel Mara Georges insisted that the marathon case is not over. Plaintiffs still must prove to a federal appeals court there was an “adverse impact” on minorities every time the test was used to hire a new class of firefighters, she said.

    “If the 7th Circuit tells us to hire additional members from this … class, we stand ready and willing to do so. … But, we need some rulings from the 7th Circuit first,” Georges said, pegging potential damages at $45 million and hiring costs at roughly $6 million.

    “We had kind of expected the final chapter to be written by the Supreme Court. But, it is not the final chapter. Instead, the Supreme Court remanded the case to the 7th Circuit.”

    Piers accused Georges of “grasping at straws.” He maintained that the plaintiffs would have no problem meeting the burden of proof for each of the eight classes hired.

    “In each instance, the undisputed evidence shows African-American participants picked were far fewer than they would have been if they had chosen from the larger group that passed the test,” Piers said.
    Last edited by blue2520; 05-24-2010 at 08:15 PM.

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    If the city has to put 120 on the job and at least half take the job those of us that have only taken the PAT are looking at around 24 months from the time they start for a possible academy. Thats if they run large clases back to back taking only one short brake between and don't have some sort of freeze. This award puts us where the group behind us wating for cards was sitting.

    The fireman with 14 or less years on the job have to be going nuts.. This 120 will have all the rights and privilege earned by a 15yr veteran including the ability to be promoted (although from the looks of where they scored on the last test not many people will have to worry), pay, vacation, transfers, any retro check that comes from the new contract, etc. ect..
    Last edited by blue2520; 05-25-2010 at 09:53 AM.

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    I like alot of others are just waiting on the Physical and Final processing and this does suck... I should just go and "toke" up now... But seriously I feel that this is one of those "it is what it is". Im not going to be mad at them for wanting this job like we do. For those who feel that "blanket parties" and other things as such, what makes you more of a FF than them? What have you done to contribute to an engine? A department? What "brother's" life have you saved? Those who decide to take the job rather the money, shouldnt it be looked upon that all they wanted to be were FF's and nothing else. Shouldnt they be commended. How many of us will take the money and run, rather than face the obstacles in joining the academy and moving on. In the Navy, in MM school the ones who recvd the lower class scores where usually the ones who did the best on the boats. And as a Latino, Mexican-American, chicagoan, South Sider (as I like to be referred to) as a kid it always was my dream to be a FF. IT was disappointing to never see someone who had my skin tone as a FF. When this test came up, I was ecstatic knowing that I would have a chance, where before you had to be a son, nephew, cousin of a Chief or work for the aldermen to be a FF. I think there are people who feel that they should be on just because of who they know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bagosoxgo View Post
    I like alot of others are just waiting on the Physical and Final processing and this does suck... I should just go and "toke" up now... But seriously I feel that this is one of those "it is what it is". Im not going to be mad at them for wanting this job like we do. For those who feel that "blanket parties" and other things as such, what makes you more of a FF than them? What have you done to contribute to an engine? A department? What "brother's" life have you saved? Those who decide to take the job rather the money, shouldnt it be looked upon that all they wanted to be were FF's and nothing else. Shouldnt they be commended. How many of us will take the money and run, rather than face the obstacles in joining the academy and moving on. In the Navy, in MM school the ones who recvd the lower class scores where usually the ones who did the best on the boats. And as a Latino, Mexican-American, chicagoan, South Sider (as I like to be referred to) as a kid it always was my dream to be a FF. IT was disappointing to never see someone who had my skin tone as a FF. When this test came up, I was ecstatic knowing that I would have a chance, where before you had to be a son, nephew, cousin of a Chief or work for the aldermen to be a FF. I think there are people who feel that they should be on just because of who they know.
    The 132 who will get on the job before you do will not be commended....trust me on this one. They will not be accepted in 99% of the houses in the City. The seniority alone will cause so many problems for them. The "I was unable to take the Lt. exam because blah blah blah"....and therefore I need to be promoted to Lt. after one year on the job will be another problem....because they will get whatever they want....nothing good will come out of this.....

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    This will only cause more problems
    Last edited by harrynuts; 11-07-2013 at 10:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bagosoxgo View Post
    I like alot of others are just waiting on the Physical and Final processing and this does suck... I should just go and "toke" up now... But seriously I feel that this is one of those "it is what it is". Im not going to be mad at them for wanting this job like we do. For those who feel that "blanket parties" and other things as such, what makes you more of a FF than them? What have you done to contribute to an engine? A department? What "brother's" life have you saved? Those who decide to take the job rather the money, shouldnt it be looked upon that all they wanted to be were FF's and nothing else. Shouldnt they be commended. How many of us will take the money and run, rather than face the obstacles in joining the academy and moving on. In the Navy, in MM school the ones who recvd the lower class scores where usually the ones who did the best on the boats. And as a Latino, Mexican-American, chicagoan, South Sider (as I like to be referred to) as a kid it always was my dream to be a FF. IT was disappointing to never see someone who had my skin tone as a FF. When this test came up, I was ecstatic knowing that I would have a chance, where before you had to be a son, nephew, cousin of a Chief or work for the aldermen to be a FF. I think there are people who feel that they should be on just because of who they know.
    I'm glad in the navy the lower test scores did better on the boat... But this isn't the navy. The problem is why is it only 6000 blacks that are sueing, shouldn't everyone that didn't get in sue. Its total bull that because some peoiple were to dumb to study for an exam still think they deserve something for nothing. Not in my life will I ever "comend" someone for crying discrimination and getting what they want acting like petty 5 year olds. I don't know the numbers but I'm willing to bet more then 6000 whites, asians, hispanics were left out. So what should be do, say screw the '06 test and just start giving everyone jobs that "really wants to be a FF" ?

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