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Thread: Chicago Fire Exam, March 2006

  1. #601
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    well after reading that case im pretty shocked at what's going on...chitownmedic you seem to know what's going on so im guessing your on the job as a medic right? do you know what the physical abilities test consists of for cfd?


  2. #602
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    There has been no discussion that I have heard of about the physical abilities test. No one has contacted any of the medics about the abilities portion. Reading the judge's rulings, it sounds like it might be awhile before anything is dealt with. Fire classes are typically 6 months long. This many people that must be hired implies to me two classes. Two classes at 6 months each, no background processing from them done yet, makes me believe it will be about a year and a half until they start hiring from the 2006 list. Don't know what else to say about it.

  3. #603
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    You have to figure out of those 132 how many will actually take the job now, how many are too old, and how many will they even be able to reach. Then you figure how many will fail the physical abilities test, how many will fail the drug test. I am willing to bet that you won't even fill one class with the people from the law suit.

  4. #604
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    OK air head, your tellin me they will not get 132 guys out of 6000, that are willing or unable to pass the process to get in the academy. First of all the 6000 african americans in this lawsuit are dying for this job seeing they get 9 years seniority and back pay including interest. That gives each guy roughly a 1 in 60 chance to have a great job and roughly a $500,000 signing bonus. Not to mention the city has to hire 132 guys no matter what.

  5. #605
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    "The plaintiff class is composed of approximately 6,000 African-Americans who
    applied for entry-level firefighter jobs with the City and scored from 65 to 88 (inclusive)
    on the 1995 firefighter written examination."

    yeah it is right what he is saying and hopefully it's gonna be just 132 hires and then they will move on to the hiring of people and more so hiring off the 2006 list
    Last edited by JoeyT1986; 03-27-2007 at 12:33 AM.

  6. #606
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    when i read this i got the impression that they want to be in the academy all at once...i may be wrong but say that's the case does anyone else think that is a bad idea? i mean they would kind of be placing a target on themselves rather than mixing themselves among the academy classes to avoid discrimination...like i said i may be wrong but i think if that was the case it's a bad idea

  7. #607
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    Default More lawsuit details

    finone, I'm not sure myself from reading the decision how you deal with drug failouts, withdraws (both voluntary and involuntary), etc. I know the screening process will get 132 into the Academy. So if people fail drug tests, etc. during screening, they will not be the 132 entering the Academy. From reading the decision/damages, it seems the Court wants 132 hired, but how is not clear. You need to assume a pool larger than 132 is needed to start unless dropouts/failouts are replaced on a one to one basis. This could take a while since that person would need to catch up to the main group. If the group is larger, say 160, and a # larger than 132 passes all phases, what do they do? Take the whole group, draw straws to get down to 132? (kidding). I think by 3/28, this may need to be ironed out.

    Also, if exactly 132 enter the Academy, even with the ombudsman hired to watch over them, some may fail out on the physical or drug test end. Do you replace them like alternate jurors/backups? Just a lot of questions still to be answered. Bugsy, the court did not say any intentional attempt to discriminate, just that de facto, the end result of the test discriminated against blacks. The cutoff really magnified this because the 89 cutoff left a very small pool of blacks to chose from. The City also allowed 88-66 score takers from the qualified pool after the 89+ pool was gone. So the 89 score, to the court, was arbitrary and discriminate. Other questions are involved but basically, if the city allowed everyone from 66 up from the beginning, this case may not have happened. I don't agree, but I'm not a Federal Judge.

  8. #608
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    ______________________________ ______
    Last edited by bugsy2007; 10-20-2007 at 02:00 PM.

  9. #609
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    It's almost been one year already.
    Last edited by bugsy2007; 10-20-2007 at 02:01 PM.

  10. #610
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    It may be three years before they actually have a class from the 06' test. It's almost been one year already.
    Be prepared to wait.

  11. #611
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    The city will hire the 132 unless they take it to a higher courtto argue it again. If they end up doing as said on the list, they will hire only 132. No more than that from that lawsuit group. That I am sure of. Now my question is this....is a hire someone who receives one check? So if you are in the academy for a day and start earning pay then quit, are you considered a hire? Not sure on that one. 132 is a large class for what CFD has in regards to facilities. I don't see this being one class but rather 2. If that is the case, you can figure a minimum of 9 months for the two classes (6 months for each class with three months while one class is doing EMT and the other is doing FS&R). It doesn't look like they are going to be doing anything with the 2006 list anytime soon. That's a shame seeing as how people are turning too old (over 38) to be hired as they are dealing with this 12 year old test.

    Additionally, your concerns about the graduates being "discriminated against". It's going to happen. All these people will be tagged with a start date that the judge set. Everyone will be able to know who is the from the lawsuit group. If someone wants to use that against them, they will be able to know from that. The only way to prevent that from happening is to place them in groups from the 2006 list. I don't expect that to happen.

    In my opinion, I wouldn't be suprised if the city chooses not to use the 2006 list at all and does another test. I believe that the fire dept is not happy about a pass/fail test that was as easy as the last one.

  12. #612
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    if you read the judges ruling it gives us the time frame. 6 months to get the 132 guys, and then another 18 months to get them all through the academy. the plantiffs lawyers want all of this to happen in 12 months. the city argued that having a class of 60 plus guys could not be done with the resources they currently are working with and also the mandatory 10% medics that have to be in each class(the judge ruled in the cities favor, 2 years to complete this process). So by that math there will be 3 classes 45 lawsuit candidates,and 5 medic's. Same size class as they always have. i think this the only question the 06 testers have to ask...Why does the city need 18 months to put 3 classes of these guys through, when we know two classes of 50 can finish in 6 months (50 in emt for 3 months and 50 in the academy for 3 months). then the third class starts the academy and then at the same time the first group of 06 testers start emt. so this whole process should be one year starting when the city looks for there 132. so why does the city need 2 years to finish this whole process when it only needs 1 year. do they plan to mix everyone together lawsuit guys and 06 guys? will they even be allowed to do that?WHO KNOWS....THATS THE PROBLEM! just plan on waiting guys, it's as simple as that.

  13. #613
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    Don't forget that there are candidates from the '95 test that are/were not part of this lawsuit that have gone through part of processing, finishing in September with fingerprints and photos. I would think the city would sprinkle them in there.

  14. #614
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    Ahh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by JoeyT1986; 10-20-2007 at 02:43 PM.

  15. #615
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    I don't really think they can just throw out the '06 test and make a new one without hiring anyone off it, but then again I'm not a lawyer so I have no idea. But I hope they do and I even got a pretty good number 2200's, not great but maybe good enough to get on eventually. I would much rather have them take candidates based on written and interview scores like other departments. When I get hired on a F.D. I want to have earned my right to be there, I don't want to have gotten there on pure blind luck.
    Last edited by Outlet05; 03-27-2007 at 07:55 PM.

  16. #616
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    I have not heard about throwing out the 06, I'm just saying anything is possible.

    FYI.....the city has not medics left on the 1995 list, therefore 10% of 0 is 0. There have been maybe two crossovers inthe past year. There are alot of paramedics that are waiting for their chance to cross who have been working for CFD up to 12 years.

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlet05 View Post
    When I get hired on a F.D. I want to have earned my right to be there, I don't want to have gotten there on pure blind luck.
    Then don't test for depts that hire hundreds at time and have to meet minority quotas or have a history of discrimination. If you think earning the job consist of taking a written test and getting a good score for a top 100 spot on a list, then go to the suburbs and test away. You will still be 1 of several hundreds looking for 1 job that might take a year before they hire. Too get that one spot will take pure blind luck, especially when 50 guys have the same score. How do you you think they put you in order? They put you in order randomly! I'm sick of hearing complaining about the random numbers given, a written test does not make you capable or incapable of being a firefighter. Deal with it.

  18. #618
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    I have a question, my number is in the mid 6,000's. Do you think I have a chance of being called for the physical whenever it happens? Do you think I have a shot in hell at being hried? Just curious....The random number they gave us, isnt that just a number to organize who takes the physical and when? I assume when you pass/pass both the written/physical you get another random number? Is that how it goes?

  19. #619
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownMedic View Post

    FYI.....the city has not medics left on the 1995 list, therefore 10% of 0 is 0. There have been maybe two crossovers inthe past year. There are alot of paramedics that are waiting for their chance to cross who have been working for CFD up to 12 years.
    FYI if you were a medic in Chicago, you would know if there were no medic's left on the 95 list they go to the seniority list of medic's to get 10% for the academy mandatory per the union. Then fill there spots with the medic's list. And if there are medics who have not crossed over in 12 years it is because the 95 list has been around so long, lots of guys got on as medics before their number was called to be a firefighter. Which trumped the senoirity list because they took the 95 test. Hence the city got their cross over quota and lots of medics that did not take the test got screwed.They will always get their 10% in the academy. Seeing as the city wants all engines to have ff/pm.

    And about throwing out the 06 list...... WOW! I thought I heard it all, evidentally not.

  20. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by NVetro View Post
    I have a question, my number is in the mid 6,000's. Do you think I have a chance of being called for the physical whenever it happens? Do you think I have a shot in hell at being hried? Just curious....The random number they gave us, isnt that just a number to organize who takes the physical and when? I assume when you pass/pass both the written/physical you get another random number? Is that how it goes?
    I suggest you scan through the thread you will get your answers

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