Chicago Fire Exam, March 2006

[2ndWatchSucks]

It’s important that you guys make sure that they get this random system right and make sure that the selection is really random.

Another reason the get this right is your “random” number also determines your seniority number which determines transfers, furlough (vacation) selections and seniority points on promotion tests.

[heavy69]

Joey,

Joey, read again what I posted. I will be looking for a copy of the motion or checking the class-action plaintiff site. However, it does make sense that the injunction is STAYED/SUSPENDED pending the appeal or else the city would have to continue with the lawsuit hiring process. That does not mean they wants to hiring the 95 people... just that not filing the motion would mean (with a long appeal) the appeal could become moot. This is different from your murder example (and I know you know this) because the court weighs the effect of suspending/continuing the relief/penalty (also different rules for criminal/civil). Later.

[aircrew777]

What website are you guys getting all this court information from?

[bugsy2007]

No new news, but here is an idea.

Since “to be fair” the city wanted to pick new hires totally by random. Then the number they started on must have been chosen by random. But only the last number was chosen by random the 9 not the second to last number. To be totally random they should have picked a random number using all four numbers which end the Social Security number. Instead of starting with the number xxx-xx-0009 they should have picked a number such as xxx-xx-4589 or xxx-xx-6849 some other truly random number.

Because they did not pick the second to last number by random then this random drawing invalid because if your second to last number was xx9x then it was impossible for you to be chosen for the first class making this random drawing unfair and not completely random.

I can guess that if your number was xx99 then your position in the list would be around 1200 (please correct me if SS# is close to xx99). This would mean you would lose at least two years of being a firefighter if not five and had absolutely no chance of being picked number 1.

This would be a good reason to bring a lawsuit; this is no more stupid a reason than those who brought the lawsuit against the city for the 1995 test.

But I could be wrong about this but in ’96 they started with xx06 and what are the chances they started two lists with a second to last number which was 0?
(Its one in a hundred chance)

First off it's not one in a hundred chace it's one in ten chance or 10% chance if you like. I just had to put that in.

I kind of understand what your saying about this whole mess but disagree with the lawsuit bit.

We all know if your last digit in your SSN is 9 you have a low number. That number I assume was picked randomly some way. I don't know how, but it's assumed it was. The second number is 0. Maybe the second number was also picked randomly. Probably not though. In your lawsuit you would have everyone ranked 150 to 1200. Because those are the one's who were screwed. By the time their lawsuit took place they would be on the job or close to the academy. If the first number was picked by random, how in the world could any sue. I guess it could go something like this "Your Honor, the first number was picked randomly but the City and for some reason wanted to take away my civil rights by making the second number 0. My last two digits are 19 and if they truely picked randomly I would of had a chance at being #1-150 but now I'm 245. BOO HOO (tears falling from the little childs eyes). That's why I'm here in Civil Court to make these mean people pay". There once was a day people accepted what they were handed but today the first thing out of people's mouth is "I'm bringing a lawsuit". So everbody with a number 150 to 1200 get your class action lawsuit going. Just make sure you get the judge who awarded the 132 it's verdict. You might as well sue for making you wait for a year or two also. The City will never, ever, ever have a exam that someone can't find some reason to sue for. It's sad they changed it from the way it was because you have people who can't pass 4th grade test and you can't be ranked on your performance because that would discriminate against someone but instead your ranked on your last digit of you SSN. I'm not ripping on you or anything, I just hate lawsuits with no merit.

[aircrew777]

It’s important that you guys make sure that they get this random system right and make sure that the selection is really random.

Another reason the get this right is your “random” number also determines your seniority number which determines transfers, furlough (vacation) selections and seniority points on promotion tests.

Usually all employers determine your company seniority by the last four digits of your SSN. That part is not random, just getting into the academy is!

[JoeyT1986]

Joey,

Joey, read again what I posted. I will be looking for a copy of the motion or checking the class-action plaintiff site. However, it does make sense that the injunction is STAYED/SUSPENDED pending the appeal or else the city would have to continue with the lawsuit hiring process. That does not mean they wants to hiring the 95 people... just that not filing the motion would mean (with a long appeal) the appeal could become moot. This is different from your murder example (and I know you know this) because the court weighs the effect of suspending/continuing the relief/penalty (also different rules for criminal/civil). Later.

i did and i'm not gonna lie it's very confusing...to me atleast...you kind of used too much legal talk that i to be honest do not understand. What I did gather though is that you are looking at it like the city is really pulling to get more '95 guys on. I'm sorry but they were ready to drop you guys as soon as this lawsuit came about without any remorse. I'm not saying you aren't capable of being on the job cause I am sure you are, but part of me truly believes that the city pushed for the judge to close out your list. There is no logical reason why she would do it because if they really wanted to they could have just said "we can find 132 african americans to fill the spots and still process and hire more '95 guys" becuase they could have. It was not a necessity to close out the list for you guys so why was it done? my guess is that the city can't be sued by you guys now or anyone else left on the list. You could try and then they can say "we didn't close the list the judge did" and then what will you do sue the judge? good luck with that. you know i don't have the right answer and neither does anyone else. For all we know there will be no hiring at all til this is worked out. just in my opinion you are just discecting it way too much to find the smallest reason why they would still hire you guys. They didn't go to court to fight that the '96 eligibility list should remain open. They don't want to have to pay so much in back pay and to have to hire these 132 at all thats what they are focused on. Face it the '06 test was a year ago and it hasn't been touched. Why would they still go with the '95 guys when theres a fresh list with younger guys? Yeah you guys were processed but not all the way and yes that is tax dollars. Do you think the city is broke? They can afford to start over and swallow whatever money was dropped on getting you guys somewhat processed all the way. For all you know the city could just be fighting the hiring of the 132 and not even covering or looking at the closing of the '96 list. This is all my opinion and for all I know im 100% wrong but i think they need to go to the '06 list and get younger guys.

[heavy69]

JoeyT,

Don't take this the wrong way, but you must be young (yea, I'm old). If you get in the Academy (and I hope you do) you need to listen. I'm not saying the city "hopes" to get us on, and I'm not holding on to anything. But, and listen close, Since the city HAS appealed, they probably have also asked that what the Judge decided be HALTED until their appeal is decided. WHY??? Because, if not, they would have to continue processing the lawsuit folks. Since they city appealed, they probably do NOT want to process these lawsuit folks. They also probably do not want to process the old fart 95 testers either. I have always admitted that and was the 1st to post the "Oliver Stone" theory that the Judge added the "no further processing of the 95 list" specifically to help the city. However, the city does not like the decision or the damages, and the did not appeal a part of the case. So when they file (I assume "when", maybe just "if") the motion to also halt the injunction (which they must do by law, it does not stop with just the appeal), the city can't do it half-***. The little blurb about "no hiring of the 95 list" is halted (if granted) as well as all other parts of the judges's District Court decision. The city doesn't really want to appeal that part, but must to appeal it as part of the whole decision. Does this mean the 95 guys will get hired, NO, do they have a glimmer, SURE, if they play the lottery. Bottom line Joey is that I agree with you, but, in theory, the 95 list stands if the city files that motion with the appeal.

[JoeyT1986]

JoeyT,

Don't take this the wrong way, but you must be young (yea, I'm old). If you get in the Academy (and I hope you do) you need to listen. I'm not saying the city "hopes" to get us on, and I'm not holding on to anything. But, and listen close, Since the city HAS appealed, they probably have also asked that what the Judge decided be HALTED until their appeal is decided. WHY??? Because, if not, they would have to continue processing the lawsuit folks. Since they city appealed, they probably do NOT want to process these lawsuit folks. They also probably do not want to process the old fart 95 testers either. I have always admitted that and was the 1st to post the "Oliver Stone" theory that the Judge added the "no further processing of the 95 list" specifically to help the city. However, the city does not like the decision or the damages, and the did not appeal a part of the case. So when they file (I assume "when", maybe just "if") the motion to also halt the injunction (which they must do by law, it does not stop with just the appeal), the city can't do it half-***. The little blurb about "no hiring of the 95 list" is halted (if granted) as well as all other parts of the judges's District Court decision. The city doesn't really want to appeal that part, but must to appeal it as part of the whole decision. Does this mean the 95 guys will get hired, NO, do they have a glimmer, SURE, if they play the lottery. Bottom line Joey is that I agree with you, but, in theory, the 95 list stands if the city files that motion with the appeal.

you make some very good points heavy and i hope you don't think that i'm bashing the '95 guys. I also understand that they have to find out what is to be halted because then they would have to process the '95 guys. what i am saying is that they can appeal certain parts of the injunction and not the whole thing. they could say they dont want to pay damages and hire the 132 but they dont have to appeal the closing of the '95 list. I'm just under the impression that the city will still halt the '95 hires just based on how they tossed you guys around. I'm curious though how long this will take and on top of that i wonder if they will be able to hire guys off the '06 list (if they still halt the '95 list) and when they will hear something. When do you think we will figure out what they will do and out of curiousity if they start calling '06 guys when do you think we should expect to hear something? On top of that though can they hire guys while this is being appealed???

[CFDCandidate]

On top of that though can they hire guys while this is being appealed???

They should be able to, and more likely they will need to. They would have to present the argument that the appeals process itself could take years (the lawsuit itself is going on 10) and they can't wait that long to hire people due to the amount of people retiring, etc.

So the city will get permission and start the process again of people getting into the academy. Sure there is the argument now as to who goes first. Well it makes the most to take those that have been processed first, now I'm not sure what everyones idea of not being finished processing means, but if you got to the stage of background checks, fingerprints, and department photographs (mugshots ) your pretty damn close.

Seeing from personal experience that it took 6 months almost from receiving the first letter to the last step taken, for the quickest relief they would do the almost not quite finished guys then go to the new list.

[233wacker]

Seeing from personal experience that it took 6 months almost from receiving the first letter to the last step taken, for the quickest relief they would do the almost not quite finished guys then go to the new list.

this would make the most sense...since nobody from the 06 list has had any processing.

who even knows how long things could take....

i've heard most (if not all) of the academy instructors have been assigned to houses, while this is all going on.

and honestly how fast could they process guys from the '06 list...maybe three months at best? in that amount of time, they could have a class of '95 guys half-way through.

[JoeyT1986]

for the quickest relief they would do the almost not quite finished guys then go to the new list.

I heard they were puting too many guys in the academy and there wasn't going to be a class for awhile. just some info to relay so when everyone is saying "to get guys going the quickest" i think they have some time and are not screaming for firefighters.

[stupidfloyd]

What's up gentleman. I'm new to these postings, but I have been following along for a while now. I am an unfortunate soul that is fully processed from the '95 test since last August, now waiting around with my thumb up my @ss wondering what the city will do next. Thanks to all of you who have passed along any info you come across.

I thought this link on the firehouse.com front page was interesting.

http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...6&sectionId=46

NYC's mayor is backing his FD. Unfortunately, we have Daley here in Chitown, not saying a word... as usual.

[PureAdrenalin]

chances are, and I'm only pulling info from where I can find it, it would seem like they are trying to get everyone from the 95 list in before this legal crap really came into play. I would bet that they won't begin further processing of the 06 list until very late this year at the earliest, but probably this time 08. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'll wait.

[heavy69]

I talked to the city today and they have appealed (as we know) and they also have filed a motion to suspend the injunction until the appeal is decided. They filed this with the District Court and they have given no decision as of yet. If the city does not like that decision, they can then go to the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals (pending certain rules). JoeyT, I don't know the contents of the motion, but do know from reading the appeal that they appealed the whole decision and the whole injunctive relief order. They did not file a limited appeal. Just adding a bit more. However, it should not take too long for the judge to rule on the motion since it puts some difficulty on the city (They would need to continue processing the class members, etc.). So hopefully a quick decision is at hand. The appeal is another story.

[JoeyT1986]

hey heavy who did u call down to? i'm not doubting you at all but i know HR is so hard to get info out of sometimes so i was wondering if theres a better source of information. thanks

yeah just called HR and asked about the lawsuit and if the city appealed (to start convo on it) and her response was- "why would you want to file a lawsuit against the city?" haha so yeah that proves my point so heavy help a guy out! all she said was "did you take the '06 test?" and i said yes and she said "did you pass?" and i said yes and then she said "oh well what number did you get?" and i said my number (in between 20-40) and she said "oh well you are one of the lowest numbers i have heard so far and once they start calling '06 guys you should know cause you will be one of them"

[aircrew777]

This has got to be one of the best kept secrets that I have ever witnessed! They have left everyone of us in the dark with great success. We have people on here that know people in high places and we still can't get a straight answer.
I think I am going to give up my dream of being a fire fighter like my father to make a movie about this!
Hopefully we will hear something soon about this, it's driving me nuts!!!!!

[CFDCandidate]

yeah just called HR and asked about the lawsuit and if the city appealed (to start convo on it) and her response was- "why would you want to file a lawsuit against the city?" haha so yeah that proves my point so heavy help a guy out! all she said was "did you take the '06 test?" and i said yes and she said "did you pass?" and i said yes and then she said "oh well what number did you get?" and i said my number (in between 20-40) and she said "oh well you are one of the lowest numbers i have heard so far and once they start calling '06 guys you should know cause you will be one of them"

This has got to be one of the best kept secrets that I have ever witnessed! They have left everyone of us in the dark with great success. We have people on here that know people in high places and we still can't get a straight answer.
I think I am going to give up my dream of being a fire fighter like my father to make a movie about this!
Hopefully we will hear something soon about this, it's driving me nuts!!!!!

Yeah, either HR is completely clueless or they're having a lot of fun messing with those of us that are twisting in the wind...

[heavy69]

JoeyT,

I called the Law Department, Appeal Division. She knew exactly about the case and offered no resistance. Seriously, she was more than helpful and why not, it is public info (just hard to get public info). I'm sure most of this is available (for a small cost) from the 7th Circuit's PACE service. She said that the motion was filed on the 10 (of May, I believe) and the Plaintiff's responded on the 17th. No decision as of yet.

[JoeyT1986]

Yeah, either HR is completely clueless or they're having a lot of fun messing with those of us that are twisting in the wind...

i just hope we hear something soon

[JoeyT1986]

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