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    Default College Support to fire departments?

    I am interested in obtaining information on the financila support that fire departments are receiving from colleges located within their ruesponse areas.

    I am especially interested for Pennsylvania, but I welcome any input.

    I live in a small college community and the college offers little or no support to the fire department. I am trying to build a case before I go off and plead my case to the college.

    Thanks

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    Two thoughts...

    1. Your first stop ought to be the English Dept.

    2. What makes the college different than any other business or residence in your town?

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    why are you guys such spelling nazi's around here? its the internet, thats the way it is, get over it.

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    Arrow Spelling & grammar are basic skills. Please use them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9110E
    why are you guys such spelling nazi's around here? its the internet, thats the way it is, get over it.
    Do you take such a lax approach to everything you do? Once taught, good skills and habits should remain with a person. If you possess basic English and grammar skills, how do you turn them off just because you're using a Web site? Saying this is just the internet sounds a lot like the burned out ol' veteran who insists that he doesn't need to bunk out because it's "just going to be a false alarm."

    Quote Originally Posted by Leatherhead5
    I live in a small college community and the college offers little or no support to the fire department. I am trying to build a case before I go off and plead my case to the college.
    What sort of support are you looking for? Use of facilities or land? Financial support? Student firefighters? Cooperation with fire inspectors?

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    Well a little info more info on your town and the college would be quite helpful. A little background on me, I go to Eastern Kentucky University and work full time for the Richmond Fire Department as a student firefighter.

    You mentioned that you live in a college community. I consider a college community one in which if you pulled the college out of the town the town most likely would crumble. Richmond has a population around 35,000 with the Universities total enrollment being around 20,000 and recieves no tax money from the University due to it being a state school. The fire department is a four station department that employs 50+full time firefighters and 12 student firefighters from the universities fire program. At face value it looks like we are getting hosed by the University due to the numerous false alarms we have to respond to in a given year to the University.

    But when you look at what that college is bringing to your town it starts to add up. Richmond wouldn't have near the commercial base that it has if the University wasn't in town. Young people spend money which allows for Richmond to be a very attractive market for restaurants and other commercial entities. With every new restaurant more money comes to the City. While at face value the University appears to be a hinderance, it really brings a tremedous amount of revenue to the town. The University is the largest employer in Richmond and quite frankly the heart of the City.

    One thing to look at is any grants the University may be able to help you in obtaining. I know Eastern has helped us obtain quite a few grants for new apparatus in the past. Universities have connections and access to some grants that your fire department might not.

    Hope some of that made sense.

    Bobby

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    In response to George, I think a college is quite different than a corporation in many important respects.
    1.) Let's face it, college kids do not always make the safest choices... Between the immaturity (not saying all of you are) and the drinking, medical calls rise sharply, as do auto accidents and MFAs. Then there are the times they choose to see how a metal rod does in the microwave, or any of these other brilliant activities.
    2.) When talking about mid to major colleges and universities in small towns, you are introducing hazardous chemicals in labs to small towns that may or may not be able to afford adequate responses.
    3.) BEER
    4.) Campuses (I THINK- NO PROOF) seem to have more alarms than your typical industry
    5.) Liquor
    6.) Large campus events
    7.) Did I mention the alcohol factor yet?
    Running short on time, I'll get back to you with more later...

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    I live near a nice, small, cathloic university.... very few problems.

    I run EMS in a town where we have a nice big, state university. Night and day.

    The running bet on my Saturday night shift isn't IF we will be deaing with a drunk kid that night, but HOW MANY we will see.

    What is great, is that I will turn 21 next spring, and I've NO intrest in going out and getting hammered, not even for my birthday. Nope. I've seen WAYYYY too many bad endings.

    I don't know if the little cathloic school supports the local fire co. I also can't help in regards to the bigger state school. I will say, though, that the State school has its own PD as well as a EMS service (only a quick response, not transport) Both of these resources reduce some of the load on the town's resources.... the QRS is sometimes dispatched alone, without an ambulance, for minor BLS stuff.
    Last edited by notmedicyet; 10-26-2005 at 11:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9110E
    why are you guys such spelling nazi's around here? its the internet, thats the way it is, get over it.
    Because we can and the real world demands it.

    If you think spelling isn't important...remember that when you are on the phone with CHEMTREC and dealing with a spill of ethylmethyldibromidenastyass kill you in a minute and realize that the simple misplacement of a letter can cause a disasterous outcome.

    Now back to the program....
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Capt. does that come in a 55 gallon drum? I can only find it in the
    quart bottle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firemanpat29
    Capt. does that come in a 55 gallon drum? I can only find it in the
    quart bottle.
    Actually it comes in a 5 lb container. Its a solid with a very low sublimation temperature.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9110E
    why are you guys such spelling nazi's around here? its the internet, thats the way it is, get over it.
    I won't jump on people much for a quick reply to a post, but the starting post of a thread should be thought out enough that you don't have mistakes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    quote :
    why are you guys such spelling nazi's around here? its the internet, thats the way it is, get over it.




    I really donít know why. Itís as though some like to jump all over people for spelling/grammar issues, though.
    Just a quick thought though, maybe you should rethink comparisonís to the ďnaziísĒ. I find it hard to believe anyone, on these boards is remotely close to being a Nazi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by orangehopeful
    In response to George, I think a college is quite different than a corporation in many important respects.
    1.) Let's face it, college kids do not always make the safest choices... Between the immaturity (not saying all of you are) and the drinking, medical calls rise sharply, as do auto accidents and MFAs. Then there are the times they choose to see how a metal rod does in the microwave, or any of these other brilliant activities.
    2.) When talking about mid to major colleges and universities in small towns, you are introducing hazardous chemicals in labs to small towns that may or may not be able to afford adequate responses.
    3.) BEER
    4.) Campuses (I THINK- NO PROOF) seem to have more alarms than your typical industry
    5.) Liquor
    6.) Large campus events
    7.) Did I mention the alcohol factor yet?
    Running short on time, I'll get back to you with more later...
    So you mean that the dorms are kind of like nursing homes or hotels? So you mean that the labs are kind of like research labs in corporations? You mean that the large campus events would be like if you had an arena or stadium in your response area (they are owned by corporations, BTW). And do you mean that college students drink like most every idiot in the US?

    I'm confused. Tell me how they are different again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    So you mean that the dorms are kind of like nursing homes or hotels? So you mean that the labs are kind of like research labs in corporations? You mean that the large campus events would be like if you had an arena or stadium in your response area (they are owned by corporations, BTW). And do you mean that college students drink like most every idiot in the US?

    I'm confused. Tell me how they are different again?
    Having a University near by I believe that what Orangehopeful is trying to say is that because the schools believe that they are different from a corporation, they are different. The FD that is first due to the local university provides EMS stand-bys for the hockey and basketball games, as well as the rugby tourney they have every year. They also go to alot of drunk and stupid calls along with an inordinate amount of False alarms, and fire related calls on the campus. I do know that if the business I work full time for had the same record as them there would be trouble.
    I am not saying its right, I'm just saying...
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    point George..... Next

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    So you mean that the dorms are kind of like nursing homes or hotels? So you mean that the labs are kind of like research labs in corporations? You mean that the large campus events would be like if you had an arena or stadium in your response area (they are owned by corporations, BTW). And do you mean that college students drink like most every idiot in the US?

    I'm confused. Tell me how they are different again?
    Immature college students ofte add a level of stupidity to incidents that rises above the stupidity level of the average citizen, concentraiting them in one spot often creates larger run numbers then what would exist in the equivalances that you provided. The fact that so many college kids survive to graduate alive is kind of amazing to me.

    Grandma with a broken hip at the nursing home is a BLS scoop and ship to the hospital, Johnny jumping out of his third floor dorm window on a drunken dare is a ALS serious trama.
    Last edited by DennisTheMenace; 10-27-2005 at 06:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    If Johnny was drunk, he probably stumbled away unhurt...

    Seriously, I don't buy that the college is SO different that it requires them to provide "support" (whatever that is) to the FD. I know for a fact that many (most? all?) colleges and universities have their own health services depts. Many have their own EMS. So that should take care of alot of the nuisance stuff inthat area. Most if not all major colleges and universities have their own public safety dept. That is support right there that you don't get from every corporate neighbor.

    As far as the standbys, if you are not charging for those standbys, you're nuts.

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    I am chief of a small, volunteer department with a college in our first-due area and another in our second due area. We have cultivated a wonderful relationship with the college in our first-due area and have many faculty, staff, and students as members. If you would like to send me an email with some specific questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
    Stay safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    If Johnny was drunk, he probably stumbled away unhurt...

    Seriously, I don't buy that the college is SO different that it requires them to provide "support" (whatever that is) to the FD. I know for a fact that many (most? all?) colleges and universities have their own health services depts. Many have their own EMS. So that should take care of alot of the nuisance stuff inthat area. Most if not all major colleges and universities have their own public safety dept. That is support right there that you don't get from every corporate neighbor.

    As far as the standbys, if you are not charging for those standbys, you're nuts.
    Actually that is part of the problem, a small health center is all that is available on campus, if you have a cold, the flu, or some other illness that is not considered hospital worthy you can get it taken care of there. As far as the public safety department, campus security is responsible for that and often is the one calling the FD. As far as EMS, nope. This local university has been responsible for up to 5 AFAs (often false) and EMS calls a day. If it didnt exist I guarantee that the call volume for the responding FD would decrease substantially.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    George, respectfully have to disagree with you here. Sure, I understand your point if you are talking mid to large cities with campuses. I'll go through my thoughts...
    1.) Some small towns have schools which more than double their population. If this is a state school, how much taxes are put back into the town? As far as support, in a small town with a vol force, this may overtax the responders. Not to mention the fact that you now need in place hazmat teams and will need more troops on the ground (i.e.football games, other large events)

    2.) If you really believe that college students are no dumber than regular citizens, I encourage you to try a rideout on a weekend with EMS and you will be astonished. Patients stuck behind toilets, concussions from hitting the floor after doing "whippets," BAC's higher than Bush's approval rating.

    3.) Lewiston is correct in his evaluation of 'infirmaries.'

    So what is support? I think some form of self response is a great idea, for fire, ems, and police. I think money to assure that the local emergency services are well trained and equipped, as well as encouraging student involvement (in vol towns). Sorry I cannot take more time on this, if you still disagree ill get back to you with more later.

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    Actaully, the input here has been helpful.

    And first and foremost, I agree with my own spelling errors. I should have been more careful. I was in a hurry to get the thread posted and did not review the spelling. I appreciate the input.

    Next, there has been some good information hidden within all the responses. Support does not always need to come in dollars. We used to have a lot more support from the students to run EMS when we had EMS. However, that no longer is the case. Maybe we don't market ourselves enough.

    However, our college does get off quite easy with no financial support being offered or provided and that is wrong. There is a very great exposure both in terms of property but more importantly life hazard.

    I will go through the responses again and try and get some ideas to use for approaching the college administration.

    Be safe!

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    I believe this is what occurs in my district, DO NOT hold me to this. I believe that the stste university in my town contributes an amount of money to the fire department each year. This amount is not big, especially not considering the number of calls made to the university each year. The university has also helped the department obtain fire apparatus in the past. I believe that nearly half of the funding for our quint came from the university and its supporters. The amount donated each year, I believe, is somewhere in the neighborhood of $5000.


    edit: Leatherhead, PM me if you need any more details.
    The opinions I post to these forums do not represent any entity to which I am affiliated.

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    So the answer to the problem is the same as all the other fire service problems? Throw money at it?

    Surely you can be more creative and practical than that!

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    The tax issue might be the big one here, since most educational institutions don't pay any property tax, the non-profit tax-exempt thing, the state or the school would be doing the right thing if they developed some sort of way to help the department out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nyckftbl View Post
    LOL....dont you people have anything else to do besides b*tch about our b*tching?

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    I think the tax issue is THE biggest problem with college's. In NY, they are non-profit and thus tax exempt. The university in my city accounts for a large part of our call volume at my station yet they pay no taxes. Granted, the same goes for nursing homes, hospitals, and churches. The problem is the fact that colleges are making quite a bit of money, and if they pass the charge on to the students via a "public safety fee" it would not hurt them financially. For someone paying nearly $40,000 for a four year degree, I hardly think a nominal ($100/yr) fee would hurt. College's often have several things that make them target hazards, and one would think that they would want the best protection possible. However, in my house we have an engine and a ambulance and we jump rigs - often to haul in a 18 y/o drunk form a frat party. It is a huge political issue to push the fee, and the college throws us a bone every few years, for example kicking in some money to a new truck this year. We need people though!

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