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  1. #21
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    emtcsmith....welcome to the world of being a MUTT!!
    FF/NREMT-B

    FTM-PTB!!

    Brass does not equal brains.

    Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the ability to control it.


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by emtcsmith

    (SNIP)

    Both Fire and EMS need to work together for the common good, John Q Public doesn't understand what goes into the process and it isn't a problem til a little white girl dies in a fire or waiting for the paramedics. If we can't work together then we might as well not work at all because nobody else is going to look out for each other on the street and last I checked it was all still one family no matter what your patch said.
    I agree with you we all need to work together (thats about all I can agree with) - however it irks me every time someone feels the need to throw the race card in the mix. It is a problem when any person dies needlessly.

    I imagine this is will not be an issue 10 years from now. change is often hard to accept, however, most proffesionals will adapt. Those who refuse to change will retire etc.. and the new will come in.

    Fire Departments are a certainly a jack of all trades - the fight fires,treat the sick and injured,perform all types of rescues,educate,and much more than i can think of right now.

    No matter what is on your rig - your still what my 3 yr old son knows you by - "FIREFIGHTER". He also knows its a "Fire Truck". He knows that no matter what it says on the truck (plus he cant read ) folks on that engine or in the "box" are there to help. I imagine thats what most citizens know too.

    Yes every now and then I hear " I didnt really need the fire truck too!". But they arent really complaining.
    Last edited by SSTONER; 10-30-2005 at 01:06 PM.
    Warm Regards,
    Shawn Stoner
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  3. #23
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    emtcsmith....welcome to the world of being a MUTT!!

    There seems to be a lot of this going around, lately. Must be contagious. It’s hard to believe there are so many ‘brothers’, who are nothing more than tools.

  4. #24
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    I dont know...we changed ours to fire-rescue a couple years ago. We (the staff) pushed for it. Then again, our department has only been around since 1951.

    Just wished our biggest problem was what to call ourselves.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

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    RUSH-Tom Sawyer

    Success is when skill meets opportunity
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  5. #25
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    The name we use is:

    (The Name) Emergency Services. It regroups everything...we do Fire, Rescue, EMS, Hazmat, Rope Rescue, you name it. So personally, I think it make sens.

    Coming back on the bottom of the thread, I think you have to rescpect the history and the traditions of a department. Before you do any changes, you should ask the people who are concerns and who devote their lifes for something they are proud of. I think that if the city of Dallas has always been called "DALLAS FIRE DEPARTMENT" it should stay that way, unless the majority of the FIREFIGHTERS, not anyone else, wants to change it.
    Mathieu Dorval
    Firefighter/EMT-B

  6. #26
    Forum Member emtcsmith's Avatar
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    I'm deeply offended by you taking what I said and not only asuming race but that the comment was against any race. We all know the hard truths of life and your just trying to take my comment and make something of else of it. You have no idea who I am or what part(s) of the emergency services I am in.

    The point is simple...we need to work together to provide the fastest and best service to the public. Change is hard and I will be the first to admit I don't like it. Listen to me when I also say I am against any company (engine, ladder, rescue, als, etc) being disbanded for any other unit. But to provide the fastest and best service to our citizens things change be it what we call ourselves or the way we do things. Hopefully we can put aside our personal feelings for the greater good of those who need us.

  7. #27
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    We are officially the Lexington-Fayette Urban County Division of Fire and Emergency Services. LFUCG DFES. However every engine, ladder, emergency care unit, staff car, and maintenance vehicle says Lexington Fire Department.

    Our department was formed in 1896 as the Lexington Fire Department. I personnally find it hard to take someone who wants to change 109 years of tradition for no apparent reason. Does becoming fire-rescue improve service?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by emtcsmith
    I'm deeply offended by you taking what I said and not only asuming race but that the comment was against any race. We all know the hard truths of life and your just trying to take my comment and make something of else of it. You have no idea who I am or what part(s) of the emergency services I am in. (SNIP)
    You said:

    it isn't a problem til a little white girl dies in a fire or waiting for the paramedics.
    How were we suppose to take it? "a little white girl". Read it and think about it.
    Warm Regards,
    Shawn Stoner
    EMT-B

  9. #29
    Forum Member emtcsmith's Avatar
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    I'm not going to go any further then I'm not racist and you don't need me to explain the comment that you all understand and are only trying to twist.

  10. #30
    MembersZone Subscriber cowtown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emtcsmith
    I'm not going to go any further then I'm not racist and you don't need me to explain the comment that you all understand and are only trying to twist.
    Folks, this is the biggest problem the Dallas Fire Department faces

    Sounds to me like the FF's were only triing to preserve some traditions that were not affecting the service they provided in any way. The name change costs money and does not address any issue of importance. You should ask the council members why they are wasting time on this.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by emtcsmith
    I'm not going to go any further then I'm not racist and you don't need me to explain the comment that you all understand and are only trying to twist.
    1. No ones trying to twist anything. You said it, it's pretty easy to understand what you meant.

    2. Of course what you said was racist - it assumes that no one cares if a little black girl dies.

    3. I can't assume you are not a fireman? Yeah, I know plenty of FF's who identify them selves as EMT so and so. Right.

    4. Be as deeply offended as you want - I couldn't care less, mutt.

  12. #32
    B Shifter rjtoc2's Avatar
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    Default The Name Change

    There are a few factors about this "debate" that need to be brought to light:

    1. "Retired" Chief Steve Abraira changed the name from the Dallas Fire Department to the Dallas Fire-Rescue Department shortly after he came here from the Miami FD. Evidently, FDs are called FRDs in Florida and he wanted to make that change here as well. He said a primary reason for the change was to reflect the EMS aspect of our FD. DFD provides paramedic-level transport EMS for the city of Dallas.

    2. The name change from FD to FRD must be approved by the registered voters of Dallas.

    3. Why aren't we supporting the proposition for the name change? We've been the Dallas Fire Department for over 130 years and we are proud of our heritage and the tradition of being a fire DEPARTMENT. The "fire-rescue" name, to me, does not adequately describe the pride I have of being a firefighter. Maybe some of you like being a FRD, I don't. Something to the tune of "Dallas Fire & Emergency Services" sounds alot better than Dallas Fire-Rescue Department. When I see or hear the term FRD, I think of a bunch of... well... nevermind... suffice it to say that I prefer FD to FRD.

    4. The news article said we were "distraught" over the name change. I think someone took poetic license and embellished a wee bit. I have yet to hear of any firefighters being treated for anxiety or depression over the name change issue. As an ironic side note, several city council members said they ASSUMED we wanted the name change and would never have let it get this far had they known how proud we are of being a fire DEPARTMENT.

    5. This is NOT the only thing we have to worry about as someone stated in an earlier post. We fight year after year at budget time, like most every other FD, to maintain what we have despite an increase in responsibility and emergency responses.

    6. Like most other FDs, we are progressive in many areas but also "regressive" in others. We do a great job but there is also room for improvement. If the bubbas enjoy being called a fire DEPARTMENT and are proud of it, let them eat cake!

    I hope this clears the air a bit and puts everyone's mind at ease that we are not at home drinking heavily, crying while listening to Celine Dion songs, and glued to the TV watching reruns of Dr. Phil.
    Last edited by rjtoc2; 10-31-2005 at 08:28 AM. Reason: clarity

  13. #33
    Forum Member emtcsmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    1. No ones trying to twist anything. You said it, it's pretty easy to understand what you meant.

    2. Of course what you said was racist - it assumes that no one cares if a little black girl dies.

    3. I can't assume you are not a fireman? Yeah, I know plenty of FF's who identify them selves as EMT so and so. Right.

    4. Be as deeply offended as you want - I couldn't care less, mutt.
    There is no need to call anyone names here ChicagoFF if your so offended by what I said why not adress that and not go off into whatever you call what your doing. I do believe every life is worth the same and I believe that every part of the fire/ems/police family should treat each other with the same respect. Forget what I said about this girl or that the bigger problem we have come to see is the problem with change. Who cares what they call your house "fire department" "fire-rescue" "wawa substation" your going to do the same thing for the people anyway.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by emtcsmith
    I'm deeply offended by you taking what I said and not only asuming race but that the comment was against any race. We all know the hard truths of life and your just trying to take my comment and make something of else of it. You have no idea who I am or what part(s) of the emergency services I am in.
    Oh, do tell... enlighten us.

    The point is simple...we need to work together to provide the fastest and best service to the public. Change is hard and I will be the first to admit I don't like it. Listen to me when I also say I am against any company (engine, ladder, rescue, als, etc) being disbanded for any other unit. But to provide the fastest and best service to our citizens things change be it what we call ourselves or the way we do things. Hopefully we can put aside our personal feelings for the greater good of those who need us.
    I think I can speak for my Brothers and Sisters who lay it out on the line every day, whether they work for a career department, or respond paid call or volunteer. We are doing the best we can with what we have. I've been doing this job for almost 24 years now, and I think we do a good job of overcoming, adapting and surviving in this ever changing world.

    Ask any firefighter the biggest impedance to doing "da job" and they will tell you it's the interference by those who want to "change" the way we do things.

    It's the politicians who won't allow a department to add personnel, then scream at the costs of overtime.

    It's the poliiticians who hire "paid assassins", ie, consultants to come in and rip the heart of a department to save money, only to turn around and take those savings and give it to the schools or to build new parks.

    It's the Chiefs who get the gold badge, then forget how they got there or where they came from.

    It's "new generation" of firefighter who feel that they are being picked on when they get assigned the details in the station like cleaning the bathrooms, making the coffee, etc.

    It's those who feel that we are "too militaristic" and want to change the job titles to "team leader", "foreman", "supervisor", "manager" and "Chief Fire Executive".

    It's the taxpayer who doesn't care how many firehouses close or firefighters get laid off as long as they save a few pennies on the dollar. These are the same people that get angry when they cannot get the same level of service.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  15. #35
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    Default Stfu

    Quote Originally Posted by emtcsmith
    I'm not going to go any further then I'm not racist and you don't need me to explain the comment that you all understand and are only trying to twist.

    FTM-PTB / DTRT

  16. #36
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    I'm not going to defend emtcsmith...but...

    This is exactly the kind of thing that starts those nasty EMS vs. Fire Threads.

    So the Fire Chief wants to change the name to better reflect what they do. Well, it's true isn't it? Personally I think the best name would be Dallas Emergency Services...pretty much all inclusive.

    I've been accused of being a "troll" and a "mutt" simply because my username reflects that I am a paramedic and sometimes I may post my beliefs as it pertains to the future of EMS.

    I am a proud volunteer firefighter...EMS is what I do for a living. I have spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours in training to earn my EMS certification. I am also a nationally certified firefighter, but it is pretty hard to maintain skills, or get good hands on experience when you don't have many structure calls.

    EMS is what I do FIRST! In my opinion, fires are something you do in between EMS calls, not the other way around as someone said.

    If the fire service wants to retain a foothold in the EMS world, they need to realize that. Unfortunately, the fire service is so wrapped up in tradition that often times it "cannot see the forest for the trees" so to speak. EMS is all good, as long as it justifies having a paid department, opening up grant oppurtunities...etc, but the moment it interferes with tradition, it is the greatest evil in the world.

    So DFD has been a "fire department" for 130 some years...BIG DEAL! It is now 2005, and the role of DFD has changed...so a name change is probably appropriate.

    I'd like you all to just think for a minute what would happen if suddenly every fire department in the United States no longer was allowed to function as an EMS provider. For one, there'd be a helluva lot more volunteer fire departments. (Think it won't ever happen? Don't be so sure.)

    Call me what you will...I've heard it all before and I can take it. Blast me for being against fire service traditions...I can take it, but personally, I think those traditions are going to have a negative impact on the fire service in coming years as the role of the fire service continues to change.

    Just my two cents anyways

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster

    So DFD has been a "fire department" for 130 some years...BIG DEAL! It is now 2005, and the role of DFD has changed...so a name change is probably appropriate.

    DFD has been running the ambulance service for probably close to 3 decades now. No one in the metroplex is confused about the services they provide. This isn't a fight against EMS. The name change, while more inclusive, doesn't benefit anybody, and is still not inclusive of all the services they provide. I understand how tradition is often a barrier to progress. A name change is not progress and maintaining tradition is often good for morale. Let 'em keep the name... Only problem now is all their apparatus have Dallas Fire Rescue on them already.

  18. #38
    B Shifter rjtoc2's Avatar
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    Default medicmaster

    You seem to have misread or created an issue where none exists. You stated:

    1. "This is exactly the kind of thing that starts those nasty EMS vs. Fire Threads." - The issue being discussed is a name change - not EMS vs. Fire. You may want to look in the EMS forums for something more your speed.

    2. "So DFD has been a "fire department" for 130 some years...BIG DEAL! It is now 2005, and the role of DFD has changed...so a name change is probably appropriate." - It is a BIG deal to firefighters especially Dallas Firefighters. It may be difficult for one to understand the pride that a firefighter has when he is a part of an ESTABLISED (i.e. been around for a long time) fire DEPARTMENT if one has NOT been a part of such an organization. Heaven forbid that the bubbas have more pride in providing a service they do so well to begin with! Also - changing a name costs money (i.e. uniforms, badges, apparatus, etc). SOME (not all) has been changed.

    3. "If the fire service wants to retain a foothold in the EMS world, they need to realize that." - DFD has been providing EMS to the City of Dallas for 30 years. Private providers have tried time and time again to take EMS from DFD but have been unable to do so because of our reputation and service. Suffice it to say that our "foothold" is well place.

    If you would like to discuss this further, reply to this message or email me and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about pride in the fire service.
    Last edited by rjtoc2; 10-31-2005 at 09:50 PM. Reason: clarity

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayakking
    DFD has been running the ambulance service for probably close to 3 decades now. No one in the metroplex is confused about the services they provide. This isn't a fight against EMS. The name change, while more inclusive, doesn't benefit anybody, and is still not inclusive of all the services they provide. I understand how tradition is often a barrier to progress. A name change is not progress and maintaining tradition is often good for morale. Let 'em keep the name... Only problem now is all their apparatus have Dallas Fire Rescue on them already.

    I'm with you on this one.

  20. #40
    Forum Member medicmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjtoc2
    You seem to have misread or created an issue where none exists. You stated:

    1. "This is exactly the kind of thing that starts those nasty EMS vs. Fire Threads." - The issue being discussed is a name change - not EMS vs. Fire. You may want to look in the EMS forums for something more your speed.

    2. "So DFD has been a "fire department" for 130 some years...BIG DEAL! It is now 2005, and the role of DFD has changed...so a name change is probably appropriate." - It is a BIG deal to firefighters especially Dallas Firefighters. It may be difficult for one to understand the pride that a firefighter has when he is a part of an ESTABLISED (i.e. been around for a long time) fire DEPARTMENT if one has NOT been a part of such an organization. Heaven forbid that the bubbas have more pride in providing a service they do so well to begin with! Also - changing a name costs money (i.e. uniforms, badges, apparatus, etc). SOME (not all) has been changed.

    3. "If the fire service wants to retain a foothold in the EMS world, they need to realize that." - DFD has been providing EMS to the City of Dallas for 30 years. Private providers have tried time and time again to take EMS from DFD but have been unable to do so because of our reputation and service. Suffice it to say that our "foothold" is well place.

    If you would like to discuss this further, reply to this message or email me and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about pride in the fire service.

    You make very valid arguments...and I can understand your sentiments. Personally, I don't really care what they want to call themselves...leave it fire department...what I don't like is those who have come on here and jumped all over the fact that EMS is such an significant part of the Fire Service in Dallas, but yet it doesn't belong in the name for tradition's sake.

    However, I do take some issue with #3.

    Now don't read this to assume that Dallas Fire-Rescue or Dallas Fire Department (whichever you prefer) provides crappy ambulance service. I honestly don't know...going on the reputation...I would say they have to atleast do an adequate job.

    However, you mentioned privates....private EMS is a joke all of its own. It has its place....doing IFT and nursing home runs...but I know from experience that privates cannot cut it to provide quality service in a 911 setting. In my honest opinion, I think there is going to be a significant shift in how EMS is delivered in this country over the next 10-20 years. There is a big push for EMS to have its own administration at the federal level, and there is a big push to elevate the educational requirements to earn the title "paramedic". I think that the fire service does not have the ability to keep up with these changes. Not because of "firefighter's not being smart enough" (they are), but think about all the other roles that firefighters fulfill now....its not just firefighting...its Haz-Mat, Tech Resuce, Water Rescue..etc. Slinging on the extra requirements for a Paramedic is going to be next to impossible if the projection holds true.

    Ideally, EMS may reside within the fire station, but EMS staff will be sworn officers of public safety, and that will be their specialty. If EMS continues to exist in the american fire service...it will likely be at the BLS level as a First Response Agency.

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