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    To all of those who oppose the name change....Thank you for proving ..once again..why most fire fighters and most fire departments shouldnt be doing ALS.

    Your comments I am sure do the fire service great credit in your willingness to devote your time to a dying cause while neglecting the chance to truely impact thousands of lives every day.

    If you hate having EMS in your name this much, its no wonder most (yes I did say most..this thread also proves there are a few excetions...but MOST are obviously not that way) fire departments have such a hard time providing quality EMS.
    Last edited by croaker260; 11-03-2005 at 04:48 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    To all of those who oppose the name change....Thank you for proving ..once again..why most fire fighters and most fire departments shouldnt be doing ALS.

    Your comments I am sure do the fire service great credit in your willingness to devote your time to a dying cause while neglecting the chance to truely impact thousands of lives every day.

    If you hate having EMS in your name this much, its no wonder most (yes I did say most..this thread also proves there are a few excetions...but MOST are obviously not that way) fire departments have such a hard time providing quality EMS.
    I take it you work in a private for profit ems system.

    Tell me... does your service provide care and transport for poor inner city or poor rural areas? Most for profit EMS companies won't even go there because they can't make a buck.

    Some of the best paramedics I know just happen to be firefighters. If it were not for fire departments providing EMS, some communities wouldn't have ambulance services whatsoever.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Fire Departments are a certainly a jack of all trades - the fight fires,treat the sick and injured,perform all types of rescues,educate,and much more than i can think of right now.
    Thank you for telling me my department is not a Fire Department. 120 years and we still don't do EMS and have no plans to do EMS. Why? There is already an EMS agency that handles it, why should we? If I wanted to do EMS still, I would not have quit the EMS agency.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by emtcsmith
    Firefighting isn't just about putting the house fire out, its about the Hazmat leak that required massive decon and containment.
    And you as an EMT on an ambo are gonna do what? What do you carry on your ambulance for "massive decon"?
    Firefighting isn't just smoking a pack a day and putting a fire out between them its about healthy living and safe pratices both on and off the fireground.
    So now you want to mandate that all firefighters quit smoking, quit drinking, eat grapenuts, go to church, exercise, and wear condoms? Get real. It's a job. On my off time I do what I want. I do the job the city pays me for, and number one is fire suppression and rescue. What do you carry on your ambulance for that?
    Its also not just going from one call to the nexts its prevention and code enforcement in many towns.
    Yes it is going from one call to the next. Here we have a pack of duckers called the Fire Prevention Bureau. You drive around in your ambo doing building inspections?
    Lets not even get into terrorism and the many aspects of home land security now handed to us.
    Again, NOT emt work.
    But all of those are nothing compared to our older population and the demand on EMS now and in the future. Until there can be as many Medic units as Engine companies out there, then Fire will do what it does best by assisting the community through QRS, CFR, BLS, ALS responce to medical calls. There is no shame in it and I fail to see why people out there make it as such.
    So, fires, rescue, hazmat, fire prevention, education, extrication, decon, terrorism, etc, are "nothing" compared to granny who wants a ride to the hospital for her appointment? We have more paramedic ambos than we have trucks. You don't know anything about the CFD, and don't seem to know any thing about firefighting in general. Are you a firefighter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    To all of those who oppose the name change....Thank you for proving ..once again..why most fire fighters and most fire departments shouldnt be doing ALS.
    I would bet our Chicago Fire Department ambo's do more runs in a year than the entire state of Idaho. I fail to see where you have any qualifications to comment negatively on urban emergency medicine. What experience do you have with that kind of call volume or with the type of calls they routinely handle? I'll bet none. Our medics are, with very few exceptions are skilled and dedicated professionals. Do you think they do 20 or 30 calls a shift, shift after shift, because they are dogs? When you get that kind of experience and have maybe seen first hand what our guys do, then feel free to tell us our ems is no good. Until then be happy you have a job with a small outfit that doesn't do a tenth of the work.

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    Do you think they do 20 or 30 calls a shift, shift after shift, because they are dogs? When you get that kind of experience and have maybe seen first hand what our guys do, then feel free to tell us our ems is no good. Until then be happy you have a job with a small outfit that doesn't do a tenth of the work.


    Careful now brother, since when has it ever been a requirement to have any experience to criticize? It seems to me the easiest way to criticize is to have no experience in the first place. A very common theme here, it would seem.
    I do find it amusing that those who balk about useless issues, such as this one, are usually the private ambo goofs, or third party service tools. These are always the guy’s who, for whatever reason always feel inferior and left out.
    When the day is all said and done, our number one job is fire suppression. It’s what we trained the longest in recruit school for, it’s also almost always the single thing we respond for, which has the most pressing need for our intervention, and as quickly as possible.

    I am no big fan of EMS. I do it though, because it is an excellent way of helping people out of jam, at times. I also look at it as the price of admission for fire duty.
    I'm not out to stick it to someone for a payday, like all of the scab ambo companies.
    Last edited by jasper45; 11-03-2005 at 01:56 PM.

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    "To all of those who oppose the name change....Thank you for proving ..once again..why most fire fighters and most fire departments shouldnt be doing ALS.

    Your comments I am sure do the fire service great credit in your willingness to devote your time to a dying cause while neglecting the chance to truely impact thousands of lives every day.

    If you hate having EMS in your name this much, its no wonder most (yes I did say most..this thread also proves there are a few excetions...but MOST are obviously not that way) fire departments have such a hard time providing quality EMS."

    Attention Attention,

    And because I dont support a name change, I am for keeping a little tradition, I am not capable of providing quality ALS?

    While I do not like EMS I do it. Now lets think about this wich would you rather do, vent a roof, or take the pt with a cold to the ED for a free ride.

    Put a little water on car fire or put a band-aid on a cut toe and then transport.

    Wake up at 2:00 am becuase a patient has not felt good all day and now wants to go the ER or sleep because you have been running you a@# off all day and you just got to sleep 20 min's ago.

    Or how bout that 400 pound lady that has fallen AGAIN and needs help getting back into bed and at the same time a box is tapped in your first due and now the second due as become first due etc etc etc.

    EMS as a whole is a joke. 20-30 years ago if kid broke his harm mom or dad put him in a car took him to hospital themselves. If you had a sniffle you went to the doctor. If you were at a doctors office and something was wrong with you they would take care of it and call a private ambulance.


    What we do 86% percent of the time is a free ride or free health care not emergency medicine.

    Oh one more thing, who was responsible for making the ALS or Paramedic program take off in popularity and gain acceptance, thats right, a FIRE DEPARTMENT (LAcoFD).
    Last edited by CaptainS; 11-03-2005 at 01:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    To all of those who oppose the name change....Thank you for proving ..once again..why most fire fighters and most fire departments shouldnt be doing ALS.

    Your comments I am sure do the fire service great credit in your willingness to devote your time to a dying cause while neglecting the chance to truely impact thousands of lives every day.

    If you hate having EMS in your name this much, its no wonder most (yes I did say most..this thread also proves there are a few excetions...but MOST are obviously not that way) fire departments have such a hard time providing quality EMS.
    The name change issue has as much to do with tradition as anything. The main focus of service is Fire Protection, not EMS. As far as Fire Deptartments not being able to provide quality EMS you are way off base. All FD's that provide EMS services in this area are either all ALS or run an ALS rig and they do it very well. They roll on every 911 call and they are the first on scene 99% of the time. Most have an average response time faster than any of the private services operating in the same area. Saying that any Fire Department does not provide quality service is quite a demonstration of your ignorance of the issue. Especially a blanket statement like "most Fire Departments". I bet you are one of those guys who carries 132 tools on your belt arent you? Of course you are the main "tool". As stated earlier in this thread to one of your brothers, "Welcome to the world of being a MUTT"

    FTM-PTB

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    I bet you are one of those guys who carries 132 tools on your belt arent you? Of course you are the main "tool"
    Thats great

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    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    To all of those who oppose the name change....Thank you for proving ..once again..why most fire fighters and most fire departments shouldnt be doing ALS.

    Your comments I am sure do the fire service great credit in your willingness to devote your time to a dying cause while neglecting the chance to truely impact thousands of lives every day.

    If you hate having EMS in your name this much, its no wonder most (yes I did say most..this thread also proves there are a few excetions...but MOST are obviously not that way) fire departments have such a hard time providing quality EMS.
    How do you spell EMS and where do you see it in "Dallas Fire Rescue". This isn't about EMS!! Holy crap people...DFD has been running the ambulance for 30 years and that isn't going to change...DFD isn't trying to make it change...this is about keeping the name "Dallas Fire Department". The Dallas firefighter's have not made a huge deal about this...this actually started several years ago. The chief that was pushing it is gone now...the firefighters never wanted the name changed...they voiced their opinion because it's coming up for vote next week by the public. Regardless of what name they get, they will still run the ambulance, fires, HAZMAT, high-angle, etc...

    Call out the troops...this post has been hijacked.

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    For all those in favor of name changes, I will now refer to you as ambulance drivers. I feel that name change more acurately portrays the job of the guy driving the ambulance.

    If Philly ever decided to change its name to the Philadelphia Fire and Rescue Department, you would get the same result here.

    emtcsmith, you like wawa?

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    Saw this on here a while ago.....

    You can't spell problEMS without EMS.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    First of all, your post continue to prove the points that I have been raising in other parts of this forum about the lack of emphasis and dedication most fire fighters feel for EMS. That it is a nessessary evil, etc etc etc....opr as one person put it...the price of admission into the fire service.

    Im sorry if I offended you delicate sensibilities by stating that if you get offended by even being assoicated with the letters "EMS" , you probably are the stereotypical EMS hating hack. If the words offend you that much , how can you possible dedicate yourself to it as a worth while goal? How can you ever be more than average. And in my world average is not good enough.

    For those who poked fun at my service in Idaho, especially those from Cali...At least our intubation rate is respectable and we are allowed to intubate peds. We can intubate the broad side of a barn on demand. And unlike LA's arrest survival rate of less than 5% , our cardiac arrrest survival rate is just over 40% , second only to Seattle/KCM1. And I would challange any medic to come up here and work at our level, and not feel like they were challanged to a higher standard than in most fire services. Our medics are not supermen, but they are far more dedicated and there is a medically driven culture from both the ground up and top down that does not exist in most (almost all) fire based sytems I have seen out there. So before you get the image of small town idaho hicks, consider that.

    For those who complain about havins so many years of experiance running 20 calls a shift...how much care do you do when you run like that? remember there is 20 years of experiance, and 1 year of experiance 20 times.

    And for those who think that LA and the fire service set the stage for EMS services in the nation, that was 30 years ago..what have you done for EMS lately except be a barrier to progression for the whole profession (read the recent changes to the national scope of practice documents and compare it to the first draft..thats thanks to the IAFF/IAFC/NFA) ? You (the fire service) had your chance to improve EMS forever, and you blew it for your own personal gain (IAFF Union politics) . People like you are the reason the rest of the medical community does not take us seriously...really how can you trust someone to provode the upmost dedication in patient care when they dont want to be there to begin with , and put everything else (union politiccs, fire service issues) before that medical care?

    I am third service, and EMS is my only job. I have been in this line of work for over 15 years, and I didnt always work in Idaho...I have been around the block, worked urban ghettos and very rural enviroments both. Ive seen and worked for fire , federal, military, and private services too. So I feel qualified to comment on the state of EMS, the impact of fire EMS, and the imprtance of what seems liek a simple issue.

    Someone compared the name change to the AT&T merger. They stated that the name change had no advantage for DFD. Yes it does. It lets everyone know that the old EMS hating culture in fire will not be tolorated, and hopefully is a sign that someone in DFD wants to hold the rest to a higher standard.....or do you still think you will save more lives by putting out fires than providing quality EMS?

    Do I think I will change your mind..probably not...but I feel compelled to show the flag so to speak, so others who are not as blinded by the big red myth will have something to think about when deciding which way their department goes.
    Last edited by croaker260; 11-03-2005 at 07:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    Im sorry if I offended you delicate sensibilities by stating that if you get offended by even being assoicated with the letters "EMS". Tell me , you probably are the stereotypical EMS hating hack. If the words offend you that much , how can you possible dedicate yourself to it as a worth while goal? How can you ever be more than average. And in my world average is not good enough.
    No, I don't like ems. "and in my world average is not good enough" Hahahaha. What is that, the opening line to the ems version of backdraft?
    For those who complain about havins so many years of experiance running 20 calls a shift...how much care do you do when you run like that? remember there is 20 years of experiance, and 1 year of experiance 20 times.
    Yeah, come on up and tell the medics that they don't do much care and don't have the experience you have. I'd love to watch that scene. You have a very high opinion of yourself. What city did you work in before you went to the small time? It must be an impresive record.

    People like you are the reason the rest of the medical community does not take us seriously...really how can you trust someone to provode the upmost dedication in patient care when they dont want to be there to begin with , and put everything else (union politiccs, fire service issues) before that medical care?
    Our paramedics are very well respected by the hospitals in the city. Which MD's were you talking to here that said CFD medics were goofs? Oh thats right, you have no idea what you are talking about.
    Someone compared the name change to the AT&T merger. They stated that the name change had no advantage for DFD. Yes it does. It lets everyone know that the old EMS hating culture in fire will not be tolorated, and hopefully is a sign that someone in DFD wants to hold the rest to a higher standard.....or do you still think you will save more lives by putting out fires than providing quality EMS?
    I don't like ems. I dropped my license. I couldn't stand riding ambo's. EMS hating culture? Why do you think I'm defending our medics? Because I hate them? You really have no idea what goes on, do you. Lets see, try telling the public that the Fire department won't be running ambo's any more and a private will be taking over. Then tell them that the Fire Department is going out of business and they are on their own. Which do you think they would care about more?

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    Wow, how did I miss this thread? Here's my 2 cents. I did my time in private EMS before I got into the fire department. I worked with a few great people...and a LOT of A-holes. I ran some great emergency calls...and a LOT of BS runs. Getting hired onto "Da Job" was one of the best days of my life. I do not miss my private ambo days one bit. I DO however love going to work every shift and getting the job done (in all that it entails) alongside my Brother and Sister firefighters. There is simply NO comparison.
    By the way my FD runs it's own EMS division and it works fine. So all this talk about all firefighters being "anti-EMS" is pure crap. As for me, EMS is just one part of the job. I am required to do the best that I can, however I am not required to love it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    First of all, your post continue to prove the points that I have been raising in other parts of this forum about the lack of emphasis and dedication most fire fighters feel for EMS.
    If we wanted to play around on ambo's, we would have skipped the fire academy and become paramedics. Nobody tells you you should want to be a firefighter so why do the insecure ems types always try to tell everyone they have to get excited over tummy aches? And you wonder why alot of firemen think ems is filled with whiners - "Look at me...I'm important too!" waaaa waaa waaa

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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    I'm sure that working in Chicago...you would expect that. But, it is not that way everywhere. I would still bet that your ambulance division responds to more calls than the fire division does. And this gap will only widen. (In response to your statement about running more fire than EMS)
    That is my house. I know that there are ALS companies in the city getting ruined by ems calls. Thank god I'm not on an als company missing fires for seizures!

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    Reading the post directed at me, I find my blood bopiling. I dont have to prove my medical competence to you, my record and reutation speaks for itself. If I reply further it will further sidetrack this issue. So here is my attempt to get it back on track. If you feel like measuring penises, my email is on here, give it your best shot.

    Let me put is as blunt and as non confrontational as possible:

    EMS is 80% of what most fire departments do. You obviously dont like it. I dont even like it. Obviously for different reasons.
    But the fact is until Fire doesn't just "do" ems but "embraces it" , it will never do it as well as it could. Oh, you can compare it to "hack" privates and thirds all you want, but you will never measure up to a medically driven EMS, regardless of the patch on your shoulder or theirs.
    Changing the name shows it gives its EMS mission equal respect as its fire mission. Even more important....opposing the change shows that it doesnt, and unless any fire department cares about EMS as much as it cares about fire operations...it shouldnt be doing it.

    Its that simple. Whats so hard about that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    If we wanted to play around on ambo's, we would have skipped the fire academy and become paramedics. Nobody tells you you should want to be a firefighter so why do the insecure ems types always try to tell everyone they have to get excited over tummy aches? And you wonder why alot of firemen think ems is filled with whiners - "Look at me...I'm important too!" waaaa waaa waaa
    Actually, there are people telling us we have to be ff's. Its because of the aggressive and hostile expansion of fire service into every market it can. And sometimes its successful not because the service is a hack, but because you guys are better politically connected and have deep pockets to through at local politicians ...that is why if I lived in CA..I would actively campaign for that prop everyone is so fired up about.
    Last edited by croaker260; 11-03-2005 at 11:04 PM.
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    I dont have to prove my medical competence to you, my record and reutation speaks for itself
    You may have a point. But we dont know you from Adam and your posts are not doing much for your reputation among total strangers.

    EMS is 80% of what most fire departments do.
    While I do not belong to a busy department like chicagoff, or Captgonzo, pfd etc, my company does a 60-40 split. on avg 60% being fire related alarms, 40% EMS/AAPI. And before you say another word that is the avg of 10 years.

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    Chicago- Come off of it man. I have been in urban centers and seen EMS performed...three paramedics BLSing a cardiac arrest to the hospital is absolutely a violation of standard care.

    It obvious that there is a great deal of firefighters who take EMS as the "necessary evil" to a fire job. That alone tells me it does not belong in the fire service. Croaker is absolutely right...you need to embrace it...not just do it.

    With that off my shoulders...

    Changing to Dallas Fire-Rescue...as is the threads intended purpose...why does this necessarily mean EMS...the town I work in has a volunteer fire department that DOES NOT do EMS...they still call themselves Fire-Rescue...because they do rescue people.

    Isn't extrication RESCUE?

    How about searching, locating, and removing a victim from a structure fire?

    USAR?

    These aren't rescue?

    Yeah, tradition my left nut!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    I agree with ChicagoFF,what is a "nationally certified FF" anyway? For all you guys who live for tummy aches, drunks, coke heads, junkies...take your snake oil else where...we aren't buying it.

    Justifing your delusional fantasies on what that guy Brunacinni says will get you nowhere...it only demonstrates how ignorant you are about what is really going on in the fire service today and what the brothers in the PFD really think of Brunno and his untested and poorly thought out concepts...many of which aren't even used in Phonenix to begin with.

    FTM-PTB

    PS- As for towns going volly! You clearly don't understand the current state of the vol side of the fire service...not a week goes by and there is another article on this web site speaking of the comming end of Vol. FDs in many towns. Hell there are probably at least 100 communities that meet your criteria (10-50K) that are on Long Island that are looking at getting away from Vollies for a number of reasons. It was in the papers just two weeks ago.

    PPS- It appears this all started with some clueless chief who rather focus his efforts on easy issues that really don't present any challenge..I guess it was an easier sell to the city fathers. Way to go bro...another white hat who forgot his roots.

    What is a Nationally Certified Firefighter? It means that I have satisfied IFSTA requirements for Firefighter I...sure it might not mean jack to you...but in career development...well, I'd rather have it than not have it.

    As for Phoenix....which trade journals have you been reading? I have read a number of articles about the PFD and it seems to me that they are one of the most progressive fire departments on the planet. Mainly because of him...how is it that he has so much respect in the fire community again?

    As for your other two statements...both are so uninformed I am not even going to waste my breath responding

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    Exclamation Oh no!!

    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    Reading the post directed at me, I find my blood bopiling. I dont have to prove my medical competence to you, my record and reutation speaks for itself. If I reply further it will further sidetrack this issue. So here is my attempt to get it back on track. If you feel like measuring penises, my email is on here, give it your best shot.

    Let me put is as blunt and as non confrontational as possible:

    EMS is 80% of what most fire departments do. You obviously dont like it. I dont even like it. Obviously for different reasons.
    But the fact is until Fire doesn't just "do" ems but "embraces it" , it will never do it as well as it could. Oh, you can compare it to "hack" privates and thirds all you want, but you will never measure up to a medically driven EMS, regardless of the patch on your shoulder or theirs.
    Changing the name shows it gives its EMS mission equal respect as its fire mission. Even more important....opposing the change shows that it doesnt, and unless any fire department cares about EMS as much as it cares about fire operations...it shouldnt be doing it.

    Its that simple. Whats so hard about that?
    Oh no if your blood is "bopiling" you may be having a subpenal hemecoma.

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    eah, tradition my left nut!
    With a comment like this it is quite clear you have no concept of tradition.

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    No, your right I don't...I think it is a joke to take it THIS FAR!

    Tell me you don't see the ludicrousy in fighting over this name change...its asinine!

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