1. #76
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    No, your right I don't
    And because of this you could not possibly understand why members of DFD do not want to have a name change.

    With that being said, time to get ready and do my week-end warrior bit. Have a good weekend lads.
    Last edited by CaptainS; 11-03-2005 at 10:27 PM.

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    [QUOTE=CaptainS]And because of this you could not possibly understand why members of DFD do not want to have a name change.

    Is it going to affect how they do their jobs...I don't think so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrIrons
    Oh no if your blood is "bopiling" you may be having a subpenal hemecoma.
    I sit corrested!!!
    Steve

    Paramedic, CCEMT-P, Geek

    "Boldness is like a condom. If you depend on it all the time, no matter how good it is, and no matter how good you are, eventually it will break. "

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    they are one of the most progressive fire departments on the planet.
    Sorry for the sidestep here, but can you define what makes a department progressive in a positive way?

    I'll start with the fact that I don't believe removing FF's ability to wear SCBA while responding is a progressive idea, that seems more like a step backwards.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    Reading the post directed at me, I find my blood bopiling. I dont have to prove my medical competence to you, my record and reutation speaks for itself.
    But you think it's fine to come in here and tell people that their department shouldn't be providing als care. My bloods not boiling because when it comes down to it I couldnt care less what you think about CFD.
    you will never measure up to a medically driven EMS, regardless of the patch on your shoulder or theirs.
    The patch on my shoulder says FIREFIGHTER and you will never match up to that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    Sorry for the sidestep here, but can you define what makes a department progressive in a positive way?

    I'll start with the fact that I don't believe removing FF's ability to wear SCBA while responding is a progressive idea, that seems more like a step backwards.
    Why is that a step backwards?

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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    Is it going to affect how they do their jobs...I don't think so.
    And if we made you wear a tutu and painted "Sissy Squad" on the side of your ambo, would it affect how you did your job? No. Would you like it? I would hope not.

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    Well, my engine rolls with 6-8 guys on a call. Having 8 guys get off a truck and all go open compartments to get the SCBA's off the truck is going to take some time, time that they could be getting their tools, doing a size up, possibly throwing a ladder to a window, etc. Instead, they are walking around the engine opening compartments to get their SCBA, then doing all those tasks. What is the "up" side to removing them? We already have our seatbelts on.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    And if we made you wear a tutu and painted "Sissy Squad" on the side of your ambo, would it affect how you did your job? No. Would you like it? I would hope not.
    This is a poor argument...it doesn't even compare to having "Fire-Rescue" on the side of your truck.

    If you changed the name on the side of my truck from EMS to First Aid Squad...like they have out in NJ, I think it would be a throwback to an age long gone by, but it wouldn't make me "distraught"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    Well, my engine rolls with 6-8 guys on a call. Having 8 guys get off a truck and all go open compartments to get the SCBA's off the truck is going to take some time, time that they could be getting their tools, doing a size up, possibly throwing a ladder to a window, etc. Instead, they are walking around the engine opening compartments to get their SCBA, then doing all those tasks. What is the "up" side to removing them? We already have our seatbelts on.
    I still don't see where the problem lies. I can pack up in less than 60 seconds...it takes me longer than that when I'm in an airpack seat...and no, I can't do it with my seatbelt on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    This is a poor argument...it doesn't even compare to having "Fire-Rescue" on the side of your truck.

    If you changed the name on the side of my truck from EMS to First Aid Squad...like they have out in NJ, I think it would be a throwback to an age long gone by, but it wouldn't make me "distraught"
    So, you get to decide whats a big deal and what is not? Ok, forget the tutu's - how about we paint your rigs pink? That would certainly not impede you, it's very visible, so you would be fine with that?

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    Why should I give a damn what color the truck is?

    Hell I used to work for a private service (yes, we both agree that privates suck) with trucks that barely had any paint on them.

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    Paint your trucks the lime green...its been proven to have better visibility and thus should improve fire fighter safey..yet everyone wants a "red" fire truck.

    Hows that?
    Steve

    Paramedic, CCEMT-P, Geek

    "Boldness is like a condom. If you depend on it all the time, no matter how good it is, and no matter how good you are, eventually it will break. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    The patch on my shoulder says FIREFIGHTER and you will never match up to that!
    Thank you for helping to prove my point.
    Steve

    Paramedic, CCEMT-P, Geek

    "Boldness is like a condom. If you depend on it all the time, no matter how good it is, and no matter how good you are, eventually it will break. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    Paint your trucks the lime green...its been proven to have better visibility and thus should improve fire fighter safey..yet everyone wants a "red" fire truck.

    Hows that?
    Croaker I'm with you all the way man....but I don't think you realized the can of worms you just opened here (see some of the other threads on truck color)...it's all about the tradition!!!

    Of course there are some departments that have !Black! fire trucks....who da thunk it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    Paint your trucks the lime green...its been proven to have better visibility and thus should improve fire fighter safey..yet everyone wants a "red" fire truck.

    Hows that?
    That proves you know diddlysquat!

    The lime yellow, not "lime green" was foisted upon the fire service as a safety measure.

    True, it is more "visible" ( and freakin' ugly to boot! ), but it also has a tendency to "wash out" under sodium halide lighting...the type found in street lights, etc.

    Lime yellow rigs got into just as many accidents as traditional red, despite being more visible. The reason they appeared "safer " was the fact that there were fewer lime yellow rigs on the road.

    Now,in a pre-emptive strike against your arguement...

    Airport fire trucks are lime yellow, and yes they are visible, and airport fire trucks rarely get involved in accidents. The reason?

    If an airport is large enough to have a fire department (mandated by the FAA and indexed depending on the type of aircraft using the airport), they also have a control tower and are class B or class C airspace. They have ground controllers who handle the aircraft fromt he time they arepushed away from the gate until they line up on the runway, where departure controll takes over. The ground controllers can stop any aircraft at the gates or on the taxiways to allow fire rigs to proceed, greatly reducing the chances of an aircraft vs. ARFF unit collision.

    Yellow rigs have been confused with power company trucks and school busses.

    In the city of Worcester in the early 1980's, they had some lime yellow rigs and command vehicles. The command vehicles were often flagged down on the street by people thinking that they were taxicabs!

    Hell, if people still don't pull over for bone boxes (northeast slang for ambulances), despite the sirens, lights, the big omaha orange safety stripe, the stars of life applied all over the vehicle and the word "ambulance" written in reverse script for proper viewing in a rear view mirror... then how in God's name can you come onto a firefighter forum and assail our choice of color for fire apparatus?

    Posted by medicmaster
    Croaker I'm with you all the way man....but I don't think you realized the can of worms you just opened here (see some of the other threads on truck color)...it's all about the tradition!!!
    You two should move in together..as Forrest Gump said...

    You go together just like peas and carrots!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo
    Hell, if people still don't pull over for bone boxes (northeast slang for ambulances), despite the sirens, lights, the big omaha orange safety stripe, the stars of life applied all over the vehicle and the word "ambulance" written in reverse script for proper viewing in a rear view mirror... then how in God's name can you come onto a firefighter forum and assail our choice of color for fire apparatus?
    Gee Cap...you make it sound as though I don't belong here because I'm not a firefighter.

    But you see...I am...I just happen to do EMS for a living...and I just happen to be a firefighter who is more concerned with finding the most efficient, state of the art way to knock down a fire...than upholding years of tradition.

    Am I this way because I am a Paramedic?...no, it's because I watched a house burn to the ground 3 days after spending a weekend at fire school learning about the latest tactics using foam...and even though we have that engine that we spent thousands of dollars adding a foam system to that we "just had to have" but, in 5 years have never used because "son, 20 years ago we didn't have foam, and we still were able to put the fire out with plain 'ol water".

    We lost the house because we couldn't get enough power from the water...if we had used the foam...maybe a different outcome.

    THAT's why I hate tradition!

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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    Gee Cap...you make it sound as though I don't belong here because I'm not a firefighter.

    But you see...I am...I just happen to do EMS for a living...and I just happen to be a firefighter who is more concerned with finding the most efficient, state of the art way to knock down a fire...than upholding years of tradition.

    Am I this way because I am a Paramedic?...no, it's because I watched a house burn to the ground 3 days after spending a weekend at fire school learning about the latest tactics using foam...and even though we have that engine that we spent thousands of dollars adding a foam system to that we "just had to have" but, in 5 years have never used because "son, 20 years ago we didn't have foam, and we still were able to put the fire out with plain 'ol water".

    We lost the house because we couldn't get enough power from the water...if we had used the foam...maybe a different outcome.

    THAT's why I hate tradition!
    Your problem isn't with tradition.

    Fire departments that honor tradition save millions of dollars of property and tens of thousands of lives each year whether they are fighting fires, doing EMS or a combination of both.

    Your problem is the leadership (or lack thereof) of your department combined with poor decision making when ordering apparatus or on the fireground.

    Do you know the meaning of "state of the art"? What they don't tell you....

    "We came up with this new thing, we want you to be the "lab rats" who test it. If it works, we'll make a fortune. If not, it's back to the drawing board!

    PS: sorry it doesn't work. We no longer support that product. Have a nice day!"
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 11-04-2005 at 09:05 AM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    Gee Cap...you make it sound as though I don't belong here because I'm not a firefighter.

    But you see...I am...I just happen to do EMS for a living...and I just happen to be a firefighter who is more concerned with finding the most efficient, state of the art way to knock down a fire...than upholding years of tradition.

    Am I this way because I am a Paramedic?...no, it's because I watched a house burn to the ground 3 days after spending a weekend at fire school learning about the latest tactics using foam...and even though we have that engine that we spent thousands of dollars adding a foam system to that we "just had to have" but, in 5 years have never used because "son, 20 years ago we didn't have foam, and we still were able to put the fire out with plain 'ol water".

    We lost the house because we couldn't get enough power from the water...if we had used the foam...maybe a different outcome.

    THAT's why I hate tradition!
    You do one fire a year and you think that lack of foam lost that house?!?!? Wow. Try lack of training and experience! I got news for ya. We never use foam. You don't need it to put a house out. What you need are good firemen and water. Thats it. You said you had water........

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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    I still don't see where the problem lies. I can pack up in less than 60 seconds...it takes me longer than that when I'm in an airpack seat...and no, I can't do it with my seatbelt on.
    If it takes you more than 60 seconds to slide the shoulder straps on while sitting, then you have a point, you should not be putting SCBA on. That to me is not being progessive, it's finding a way to work around bad training/skills.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    This is a poor argument...it doesn't even compare to having "Fire-Rescue" on the side of your truck.

    If you changed the name on the side of my truck from EMS to First Aid Squad...like they have out in NJ, I think it would be a throwback to an age long gone by, but it wouldn't make me "distraught"
    If you had read all the earlier posts you would have seen the "distraught" thing covered. The Dallas Firefighters are not distraught, they are not sitting around wringing their hands watching Oprah. You seem to argue for the sake of arguing. Are you related to Trolljan Mutt?

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    As for Phoenix....which trade journals have you been reading? I have read a number of articles about the PFD and it seems to me that they are one of the most progressive fire departments on the planet. Mainly because of him...how is it that he has so much respect in the fire community again?
    I don't have to read trade journals. I've had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with more PFD brothers than I can remember and I have had two asst. chiefs from PFD doing a ride along with a Batt. in my firehouse. One of which was none other than Brunno's son! I've been able to pick the minds of all the above at length about how they "really" do things and they are very honest...that retoric he spouts off in some seminar isn't necessarilly what they do in PFD. In fact many members don't care for him since he is rarely around as he was no where to be found. Oldtimers might recall when a member died in 1984 cuting a bulk storage tank(with toluene) with a partner saw (a very basic no-no). Meanwhile where was Bruno? Oh thats right...He was at a seminar far away Bullsh*tting everyone into thinking his department had their sh*t together! The men there tell it like it is and it isn't anything like you Bruno followers would like to believe. Following the lead of a department(or should I say Chief) that espouses unproven techniqes and concepts (some of which they don't really use) and has little history and little experience in actuall fire duty is nothing short of dangerous.

    I won't even touch on the latest tradgety to befall the Dept there other than to say the complete lack of company integrity and basic FF principals shows again the chiefs there should focus more on getting their sh*t in order rather than telling the rest of the country how to run a fire department.

    As for your other two statements...both are so uninformed I am not even going to waste my breath responding
    They are right on the money and since you clearly realize you lack the relevant knowledge or background to further this discussion you will just attempt to discredit my statements with the above. This is why no one is buying your nonsense argument...now get back to your bus you slug.

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    For those who poked fun at my service in Idaho, especially those from Cali...At least our intubation rate is respectable and we are allowed to intubate peds.
    Ooooooooooh! Another ParaGOD... You're special....

    Our EMT-Basics can orally intubate ANYBODY by protocol. Get over yourself.

    No, wait... They are Firefighter/EMT's so they must not be able to do it... right?

    Shouldn't you be reading JEMS or something???
    Last edited by IronsMan53; 11-04-2005 at 12:04 PM.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    I have read a number of articles about the PFD and it seems to me that they are one of the most progressive fire departments on the planet. Mainly because of him...how is it that he has so much respect in the fire community again?
    So Phoenix is THE progressive department? But many people say that progressive fire departments should be Fire/Rescue or Fire/EMS departments...

    But it is still called the Phoenix Fire Department
    Last edited by IronsMan53; 11-04-2005 at 12:06 PM.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by croaker260
    Actually, there are people telling us we have to be ff's. Its because of the aggressive and hostile expansion of fire service into every market it can. And sometimes its successful not because the service is a hack, but because you guys are better politically connected and have deep pockets to through at local politicians ...that is why if I lived in CA..I would actively campaign for that prop everyone is so fired up about.
    Did anybody else read through the lines in this statement?

    Our boy croaker (by the way... nice screen name. Do you make your patients croak?) here feels threatened by a fire department taking over his job. Hence his hostility that he has portrayed on here towards fire deparments. Especially ones that provide ambulance service.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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