1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator
    Wow ... While I beleive that the fire service has a limited role in EMS (and that role is not transport, but that my own opinion), any chief that says "unless a firefighter isn't a paramedic they are of no value to the department" needs to rethink the department's priorities. Maybe it's this attitude that has so much of our resources tied up into EMS that causes some of the staffing issues discussed on other threads ....

    Its not a limited role here. 45 out of 60 engine companys here are ALS and are first response on all EMS calls.

    Out of 17 departments in my county, I think only 4 or 5 hire EMTs, and then not very often. All the rest want medics only. Been that way for years. But thats what you get in an all ALS system, with all but a handfull of units running primary ALS.
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    Default 100% EMTs here

    All career personnel are trained to the NREMT-B level during rookie school and must maintain some form of EMT certification for the duration of their career. We do have three career members who have allowed their National Registry certification to lapse and renew only their state certification. Arkansas' lowest EMT classification is "EMT-Ambulance." It requires either a refresher or continuing education -- not both like the NREMT.

    The bulk of our volunteer division has been trained to the first responder level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    Just wondering if your department requires you to maintain an EMT or paramedic license as a condition of employment. Can you drop it at any point? Would you like to drop it? Are you required to ride an ambulance for shifts as a part of this?
    Not required to get hired, but have to be a medic within 2 years of hire. Once attained, it can never be dropped, regardless of rank.

    Would I drop it? No, but I think captains in our dept. should be able to drop it, because their plates are pretty full.

    We do transport, so I'm on an ambulance 75% of the time.

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    At my volunteer department outside Paducah,we are not required to be EMTs to join.WE only get a gas allowance for responding to the call and nothing extra for being EMT certified.
    We are required to be First Aid and CPR/AED certified at the minimum after joining.


    Quote Originally Posted by SamuelFire
    At my fire department in Western KY, every firefighter since 1990 has been required to be an EMT. We do get paid time and half for attending the initial class. You must maintain it to keep your job (which I agree with). We are at about a 90% EMT rate.

    We do not have to ride the ambulance because we only make first responder runs with the ambulance which is the city and county subsidize.

    We do not get any extra money for being an EMT which I would FULLY SUPPORT.

  5. #30
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    We spend 4 weeks of our 22-week recruit school giving all of our new hires EMT-Basic. If they're already EMT's when hired, then this training counts as continuing education credits for them. All employees are required to maintain their EMT throughout their career.

    Our EMT-Intermediates get a 9.6% pay raise, and EMT-Paramedics get a 14.8% raise, as long as they are practicing. Becoming an EMT-I or EMT-P is not required, but is strongly encouraged.

    11 of our 20 stations have ambulances in them, and the folks generally ride the ambulance every three days, depending on staffing.

    Engine companies respond on life threatening emergencies, and can initiate ALS care (if staffed with an I or P) until arrival of the ambulance.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 11-01-2005 at 04:10 PM.

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    emt-b is required for everyone but a few who are grandfathered out, it is taught in academy, and the department pays for you maintain it with in-house ceu's. you can't let it slide, however, if you hire on with a previous medic's license, you can drop down to emt-b. the ambulance is run by a third service provider, so no you never have to ride an ambulance, although every now and again they'll ask for someone to ride with them from the scene, to the hospital to do cpr or bag a patient, but you cannot be assigned and ambulance shift.

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    We do have a number of firefighters who came over from EMS, but I don't think there is a single example of someone going the other way.
    Actually, there are 2 I know personally. They came back because our great tool of a mayor laid them off from the Fire side.

    I donít think someone would willingly do it though and I am pretty sure if they get the chance to go back they would in a heartbeat

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    Exclamation

    No EMS experience to get hired by me. In the last few years while in the fire accademy you get First Responder-D. Prior to that all other line personel were also certifed. No cash for it, just two half personel days per year. You have to use them both to get a full tour(24 hrs) off. I'm not thrilled doing any EMS stuff at all but I figure the knowledge can help another FF. In the past few years we've had 4 FF's have heart attacks at work and one I know of but possibly two were defibbed in their own firehouse. All made it. Even if you don't like doing EMS, what you learn can save one of your own FF's or a family member.

  9. #34
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    Talking Question??................

    I've noticed a few mentions of "Need EMT-B to get hired". Why?? We have just the opposite here in Maryland, We train you after you're hired. With our Laws, you MUST be affiliated with a EMS provider, BEFORE you can take EMT classes. Maryland will not allow someone to be an EMT-B unless they are a bona-fide member of a providing organization
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    In Michigan, almost all the EMT classes are run by ambulance services or community colleges. Some high schools offer it as well. Most fire academies are also run by the community colleges. The trend here is to require all the necessary certs just to apply. That way the dept can put you right to work. Only the biggest cities -the ones making the greatest effort to hire minorities-train after hire.

    A byproduct of this system, EMT and paramedic are courses that qualify for state assistance for those on welfare who did not graduate high school. One of the major reason the pass rate for National Registry is below 50% in the state.

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    Only the biggest cities -the ones making the greatest effort to hire minorities-train after hire.
    What's sad is Detroit is the only city I know of in the nation that had to actively recruit (only for the EMS side). They sent an ap out to every EMT/EMTP etc in the state.

    EMT and paramedic are courses that qualify for state assistance for those on welfare who did not graduate high school.
    If you have a GED the courses are FREE in some schools all the way through paramedic.

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    Since the person who started this thread did so out of ignorance because he thought that every department in the US wants nothing to do with EMS (as implicated in another thread) I will comment....

    Around here, most of the paid departments have to (some out of necessity to justify their existence as a career department) operate EMS...either transport or first-response.

    The ones who provide transport do so at the Paramedic level...and some provide service to all, or part of the county. (for instance...with my volunteer department, our ambulance is operated by the county's sole career fire department and covers the lower 2/3 of the county)

    Some of the largest cities in the state operate as the following as an example:

    Des Moines- ALS transport and ALS Engine Companies

    Cedar Rapids- ALS Engines (transport by county contract provider)

    Davenport- ALS Engines, (transport by city contract provider)

    Dubuque- ALS transport

    Iowa City- BLS Engines, (ALS transport by county operated service)

    Burlington- ALS Transport

    Muscatine- ALS Transport

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    ChicagoFF's question was just that... just a question. It was not out of ignorance.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    Since the person who started this thread did so out of ignorance because he thought that every department in the US wants nothing to do with EMS (as implicated in another thread) I will comment....
    Wow, someone is a little bitter. I started this thread beacause I was curious as to other areas policies regarding EMT status.

    Here you get EMT-b in the academy and are required to sign a contract to hold the license for a certain period (early ones signed 1 year contracts, now it's 2 years, some signed 5 years which got them a small cash bonus). Chicago has never tested for FF/EMT - only FF so when this emt thing came up they offered the contracts with the ability to drop. Now all the talk is about a new entrance exam in the spring and the rumors are that all new hires will be required to keep EMT-B as a condition of employment. I dropped my status with the city but I continue to maintain my license on my own.

    Medic master, I make no secret of the fact that I am not a fan of EMS, but this thread was in relation to our upcoming test and finding out how other areas handled it.

    If anyone is posting out of ignorance, it is you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods
    I've noticed a few mentions of "Need EMT-B to get hired". Why?? We have just the opposite here in Maryland, We train you after you're hired. With our Laws, you MUST be affiliated with a EMS provider, BEFORE you can take EMT classes. Maryland will not allow someone to be an EMT-B unless they are a bona-fide member of a providing organization
    Chief, I cant answer for everyone, but here its simple. The departments dont want to have to pay for the training. About the only thing some will pay for is paramedic school, but in most situations they want you fully certified (EMT or medic & state FF) before they will hire you.
    Last edited by Dave1983; 11-05-2005 at 11:00 AM.
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    Chief, I cant answer for everyone, but here its simple. The departments dont want to have to pay for the training.
    You've got that right . We only hire paramedics who have already some how also attended the county fire academy.

    MO Paramedic - @ $4,000 and almost 2 years of school
    St. Louis County Fire Academy - @$3,000 and 10 weeks

    Why hire someone and spend 2.5 years and $7,000 when you can hire ready to work Monday morning.

    The downside is one time we had 2 opeinings and 4 people applied for $40K+ starting FF/medic job. They are re-thinking the fire academy requirement but not the medic, way too big of a headache.

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    Chief, I cant answer for everyone, but here its simple. The departments dont want to have to pay for the training. About the only thing some will pay for is paramedic school, but in most situations they want you fully certified (EMT or medic & state FF) before they will hire you.
    I can say from working in different departments that have used both methods I can assure you the only reason these other departments require a EMT, medic or other training or licence prior to being hired is that they haven't been sued for discrimination.

    I'm sure you are thinking "what is he talking about?".

    Many places have had judgements against them even to the point of saying the Dept can't use a physical or written exam test prior to hiring and it is the FDs job to get them into shape. They must use interviews only to determine who is best for the job....There is infinite room for abuse and there is no merit or fitness to get on the job.

    It is then at the end of the accademy they can test their physical abilties. Many also claim financail hardship and that requiring any expensive schooling (emt, medic) prior only discriminates against a certain segment of the community.

    I know it sounds crazy...just as crazy as a hospitial hiring someone and THEN sending them through Medical school. But that is what is happening out there.

    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    I can say from working in different departments that have used both methods I can assure you the only reason these other departments require a EMT, medic or other training or licence prior to being hired is that they haven't been sued for discrimination.

    I'm sure you are thinking "what is he talking about?".



    It is then at the end of the accademy they can test their physical abilties. Many also claim financail hardship and that requiring any expensive schooling (emt, medic) prior only discriminates against a certain segment of the community.
    Don't think that I am advocating this stupid position of only hiring based on interviews and providing all the schooling but in this area it could definitely be construed as somewhat discriminiatory, and I presonally believe it is. And I am not a minority or anything that would cloud my judgement on that point, nor am I a medic, nor do I particularly want to be one.

    But around here it takes around $12,000 cash I think, and a year or more out of your life to do medic school. Some colleges cost less but they have very limited enrollment and the application process is tough.

    So unless you are young and "set" if you know what I mean, it is difficult to become a paramedic. But notice I said difficult, not impossible. There are plenty of people who, by their own hard labor, have made it through medic school with no "monetary backing" around here nonetheless. But the big departments are snapping up medics as fast as they can right now. We just had openings for four FF/medics and two qualified apps were in by the deadline I think. By calling people back and extending the deadline the administration was able to get seven I think.

    Anyway right, wrong, or indifferent I think it would not be too hard for a disadvantaged inner-city person to prove discrimination in a court of law based on what you just said.

    I think we are also in a period of time where FF/medics are in an unusual level of demand due to retirements and as the positions get filled the prices for medic school may go back down and the lines of applicants for the coveted jobs may get long again.

    Birken

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    I think a city/town has the right to require whatever they want. I may not agree with their requirements (ie. requiring EMT or paramedic or be a resident of the town just to apply)but if you want the job bad enough, you will get the training or find a way to fulfill their requirements. Sure getting a Paramedic license may be expensive. It is basically a 2 year degree program where I live. So join the reserves or guard. You will get in shape, earn cash for college, and it looks good on the resume. I am no recruiter, nor am I in the armed forces, but not having money to pay for schooling is a bad excuse when there are ways to get it, short of robbing a bank. Try for a loan and do what thousands of college students do every year.
    Requiring EMT or Paramedic is just the way it is now a days. Hard to get around it in most communities now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BirkenVogt
    But around here it takes around $12,000 cash I think, and a year or more out of your life to do medic school. Some colleges cost less but they have very limited enrollment and the application process is tough.

    So unless you are young and "set" if you know what I mean, it is difficult to become a paramedic.
    Birken

    There aren't a lot of jobs worth having that don't require specialized education. You want to be a mechanic -- you go to school. You want to be an accountant -- you go to school. You want to be a chef -- you go to school. Whatever the field, certain schools are tough to get into and many are expensive. How about working for the city, but as a teacher? Lots of school. Almost any good job requires sacrifice up front. Of course, you only need a GED to hired in with us, so there are exceptions. (although, for the record, I went to school)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    I can say from working in different departments that have used both methods I can assure you the only reason these other departments require a EMT, medic or other training or licence prior to being hired is that they haven't been sued for discrimination.FTM-PTB

    Not exactly. Here, the individual FDs are isolated (at least for fire certs), as state law says you have to be FF2 certified to be a paid FF. So if someone wants to sue, they have to go after the state.
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    Not everybody can get back into the military or pay for an EMT or Paramedic course.So,what do we do then?
    Also,not every good paramedic is a good firefighter.If you want people ready to go Monday morning as another poster said,how is someone with no FF training but does have an EMT license going to be any help?It still takes time to train a firefighter,even if they do have their EMT or Paramedic certs in.

    Quote Originally Posted by ehs7554
    I think a city/town has the right to require whatever they want. I may not agree with their requirements (ie. requiring EMT or paramedic or be a resident of the town just to apply)but if you want the job bad enough, you will get the training or find a way to fulfill their requirements. Sure getting a Paramedic license may be expensive. It is basically a 2 year degree program where I live. So join the reserves or guard. You will get in shape, earn cash for college, and it looks good on the resume. I am no recruiter, nor am I in the armed forces, but not having money to pay for schooling is a bad excuse when there are ways to get it, short of robbing a bank. Try for a loan and do what thousands of college students do every year.
    Requiring EMT or Paramedic is just the way it is now a days. Hard to get around it in most communities now.
    Last edited by doughesson; 11-06-2005 at 03:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson
    Not everybody can get back into the military or pay for an EMT or Paramedic course.So,what do we do then?
    Also,not every good paramedic is a good firefighter.If you want people ready to go Monday morning as another poster said,how is someone with no FF training but does have an EMT license going to be any help?It still takes time to train a firefighter,even if they do have their EMT or Paramedic certs in.
    Get a student loan. Get your FF tarining in your fire academy

    Also,not every good paramedic is a good firefighter
    This is very true and not every firefighter is a good paramedic. I work for an FD that runs ALS pumpers and ambulances and we do have medics, that upp until we began the Ambulance service, never had worked on one.
    Last edited by ehs7554; 11-07-2005 at 09:15 AM.

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