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  1. #41
    Forum Member FHandz15's Avatar
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    Chief, I cant answer for everyone, but here its simple. The departments dont want to have to pay for the training.
    You've got that right . We only hire paramedics who have already some how also attended the county fire academy.

    MO Paramedic - @ $4,000 and almost 2 years of school
    St. Louis County Fire Academy - @$3,000 and 10 weeks

    Why hire someone and spend 2.5 years and $7,000 when you can hire ready to work Monday morning.

    The downside is one time we had 2 opeinings and 4 people applied for $40K+ starting FF/medic job. They are re-thinking the fire academy requirement but not the medic, way too big of a headache.


  2. #42
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    Chief, I cant answer for everyone, but here its simple. The departments dont want to have to pay for the training. About the only thing some will pay for is paramedic school, but in most situations they want you fully certified (EMT or medic & state FF) before they will hire you.
    I can say from working in different departments that have used both methods I can assure you the only reason these other departments require a EMT, medic or other training or licence prior to being hired is that they haven't been sued for discrimination.

    I'm sure you are thinking "what is he talking about?".

    Many places have had judgements against them even to the point of saying the Dept can't use a physical or written exam test prior to hiring and it is the FDs job to get them into shape. They must use interviews only to determine who is best for the job....There is infinite room for abuse and there is no merit or fitness to get on the job.

    It is then at the end of the accademy they can test their physical abilties. Many also claim financail hardship and that requiring any expensive schooling (emt, medic) prior only discriminates against a certain segment of the community.

    I know it sounds crazy...just as crazy as a hospitial hiring someone and THEN sending them through Medical school. But that is what is happening out there.

    FTM-PTB

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    I can say from working in different departments that have used both methods I can assure you the only reason these other departments require a EMT, medic or other training or licence prior to being hired is that they haven't been sued for discrimination.

    I'm sure you are thinking "what is he talking about?".



    It is then at the end of the accademy they can test their physical abilties. Many also claim financail hardship and that requiring any expensive schooling (emt, medic) prior only discriminates against a certain segment of the community.
    Don't think that I am advocating this stupid position of only hiring based on interviews and providing all the schooling but in this area it could definitely be construed as somewhat discriminiatory, and I presonally believe it is. And I am not a minority or anything that would cloud my judgement on that point, nor am I a medic, nor do I particularly want to be one.

    But around here it takes around $12,000 cash I think, and a year or more out of your life to do medic school. Some colleges cost less but they have very limited enrollment and the application process is tough.

    So unless you are young and "set" if you know what I mean, it is difficult to become a paramedic. But notice I said difficult, not impossible. There are plenty of people who, by their own hard labor, have made it through medic school with no "monetary backing" around here nonetheless. But the big departments are snapping up medics as fast as they can right now. We just had openings for four FF/medics and two qualified apps were in by the deadline I think. By calling people back and extending the deadline the administration was able to get seven I think.

    Anyway right, wrong, or indifferent I think it would not be too hard for a disadvantaged inner-city person to prove discrimination in a court of law based on what you just said.

    I think we are also in a period of time where FF/medics are in an unusual level of demand due to retirements and as the positions get filled the prices for medic school may go back down and the lines of applicants for the coveted jobs may get long again.

    Birken

  4. #44
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    I think a city/town has the right to require whatever they want. I may not agree with their requirements (ie. requiring EMT or paramedic or be a resident of the town just to apply)but if you want the job bad enough, you will get the training or find a way to fulfill their requirements. Sure getting a Paramedic license may be expensive. It is basically a 2 year degree program where I live. So join the reserves or guard. You will get in shape, earn cash for college, and it looks good on the resume. I am no recruiter, nor am I in the armed forces, but not having money to pay for schooling is a bad excuse when there are ways to get it, short of robbing a bank. Try for a loan and do what thousands of college students do every year.
    Requiring EMT or Paramedic is just the way it is now a days. Hard to get around it in most communities now.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirkenVogt
    But around here it takes around $12,000 cash I think, and a year or more out of your life to do medic school. Some colleges cost less but they have very limited enrollment and the application process is tough.

    So unless you are young and "set" if you know what I mean, it is difficult to become a paramedic.
    Birken

    There aren't a lot of jobs worth having that don't require specialized education. You want to be a mechanic -- you go to school. You want to be an accountant -- you go to school. You want to be a chef -- you go to school. Whatever the field, certain schools are tough to get into and many are expensive. How about working for the city, but as a teacher? Lots of school. Almost any good job requires sacrifice up front. Of course, you only need a GED to hired in with us, so there are exceptions. (although, for the record, I went to school)

  6. #46
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFFRED
    I can say from working in different departments that have used both methods I can assure you the only reason these other departments require a EMT, medic or other training or licence prior to being hired is that they haven't been sued for discrimination.FTM-PTB

    Not exactly. Here, the individual FDs are isolated (at least for fire certs), as state law says you have to be FF2 certified to be a paid FF. So if someone wants to sue, they have to go after the state.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

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  7. #47
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    Not everybody can get back into the military or pay for an EMT or Paramedic course.So,what do we do then?
    Also,not every good paramedic is a good firefighter.If you want people ready to go Monday morning as another poster said,how is someone with no FF training but does have an EMT license going to be any help?It still takes time to train a firefighter,even if they do have their EMT or Paramedic certs in.

    Quote Originally Posted by ehs7554
    I think a city/town has the right to require whatever they want. I may not agree with their requirements (ie. requiring EMT or paramedic or be a resident of the town just to apply)but if you want the job bad enough, you will get the training or find a way to fulfill their requirements. Sure getting a Paramedic license may be expensive. It is basically a 2 year degree program where I live. So join the reserves or guard. You will get in shape, earn cash for college, and it looks good on the resume. I am no recruiter, nor am I in the armed forces, but not having money to pay for schooling is a bad excuse when there are ways to get it, short of robbing a bank. Try for a loan and do what thousands of college students do every year.
    Requiring EMT or Paramedic is just the way it is now a days. Hard to get around it in most communities now.
    Last edited by doughesson; 11-06-2005 at 03:31 PM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson
    Not everybody can get back into the military or pay for an EMT or Paramedic course.So,what do we do then?
    Also,not every good paramedic is a good firefighter.If you want people ready to go Monday morning as another poster said,how is someone with no FF training but does have an EMT license going to be any help?It still takes time to train a firefighter,even if they do have their EMT or Paramedic certs in.
    Get a student loan. Get your FF tarining in your fire academy

    Also,not every good paramedic is a good firefighter
    This is very true and not every firefighter is a good paramedic. I work for an FD that runs ALS pumpers and ambulances and we do have medics, that upp until we began the Ambulance service, never had worked on one.
    Last edited by ehs7554; 11-07-2005 at 09:15 AM.

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