1. #1
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    Question Seagrave / RK Aerials

    We are looking for input on RK Aerials mid-mount platform 75'-85' purchased buy any departments, they are now being sold under Seagrave fire apparatus & Central States, General apparatus. please include your pro's & con's on there ladders!

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    My Fire Dept. is the process of preparing a spec for a new Mid-Mount platform. We have attended all the major apparatus shows this year and looked at the current crop of Mid ĖMount towers. We asked the NJ Seagrave salesmen if they had any information on what they can and cannot do. However, it became apparent that Seagrave has had little or no experience selling RK Aerials. I donít know how the two companies will sell together but beware of the unknowns. We looked at several Mid-Mount platforms in New Jersey and New York and found ALF/LTI is the most popular and has the most options. Pierce is the most expensive. KME has no local dealer repair or service center and questions were not answered about the Philadelphia problems. E-1 is new at Mid-Mount platforms and has very little storage. Donít multiplex if you can. Seagrave was pushing an Aerialscope but we want a ladder tower. Then the FDNY issues came up and Seagrave has stopped calling. Look at new delivered units to see the latest body designs and platform features. Have your salesman bring a truck in and work it, ask questions.

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    Smile

    The (South Old Bridge Vol Fire Dept ) just recieved a 2005 Sutphen 100' Mid-Mount platform last week it can be seen on the following web site :www.1strespondernews.com listed under the new deliveries . Also the city of ( Perth Amboy, N.J. ) also put a new E-one 95' Mid-mount in service and it is also on the same site !

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    Blueflame: Same boat here. We're getting ready to award the bid of our new mid mount tower today. We, likewise, attended shows, had demos, even went on a three day tour of NY, MA and CT to seen 25 mid-mount towers in current use. We had five bidders:
    Peirce was the highest.
    Aerailscope would have been with all of the exceptions corrected for a price.
    E-One, ALF and KME were within 2% of each other. Both of the above were 100K more than the lower three.
    I'll name the successful bidder as soon as its released, with more reasons why.

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    Will somebody please tell me why Seagrave isnt making their own ladders anymore? I am clueless on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainS
    Will somebody please tell me why Seagrave isnt making their own ladders anymore? I am clueless on this.
    Because they are clueless, have no engineering and neither does RK.

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    Default ff43065

    Which manufacturer do you work for? Statements like you make add nothing of substance to these forums. Responses such as yours just detract from the many contributors who are attempting to assist or add value to decisions that professionals are trying to make. I suggest that you keep your baseless opinions to yourself and leave these forums to serious contributors.
    Seagrave is designing, manufacturing and marketing its own aerial ladders and the aerial scope. In fact, Seagrave just delivered a newly designed 500# tip-load TDA in New Jersey that has many unique and features like, no fifth wheel lock and only one set of jacks. The relationship with Rosenbauer is for rear mount and mid-mount platforms and the occassional unique request that Seagrave doesn't offer, such as a mid-mount aerial ladder.
    Captain S, I suggeat that you contact someone at Seagrave HQ in the sales dept. if you have any specific questions about Seagrave aerials. Try Harvey Roth, he handles all the aerial issues with FDNY.

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    VERY WELL PUT Firetrux!!!!!! To much opinion and not enough facts on a lot of posts.

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    If Seagrave engineering is so great, then why after many years of building their own platforms did they stop? They went to the only manufacturer out there that will sell his aerial to ANYONE on the market. I am speaking of RK Manufacturing.

    Because they, Seagrave, obviously did not have a design team that could rebuild a platform to compete with the other manufacturers.

    If you think the RK 104' Rearmount Platform is a great design, you should probably go fly one and then come back with you opinion. Anyone that has only 14" high fly rail and then puts a bucket on the end is nuts. Very unstable. You do not want to be one at a fire scene.

    Although most of RK's aerial products are cheap copies of Smeal products, I can assure you the platform is his own creation. It would be like taking a Smeal 105' Platform and mounting a bucket on the end. It wasn't designed for it. And his aerials are far from the same quality of the Smeal's he copied.

    I apoligize for the quick response, but I get irritated when people think the RK is such a good product and how Seagrave can be such a great manufacturer when they have to buy someone elses aerial. They sell on price, not quality. Look who uses them, all the low dollar bid companies, Spencer, Toyne, HME, Central States.

    Even Ferrara used them at one point, due to price and then woke up and dropped the RK ladder and uses a Smeal now. They finally must have realized it is not always about the bottom dollar.

    There is much more to the bid price of a firetruck. Maybe it is time someone determined what the cost of ownership is per year on a RK, or a Seagrave or a Smeal or Central States or whoever. It would make the high quality trucks bid price be well under the low bid firetruck.

    Who is going to supply parts for your RK when the one man show in the RK business decides to close the doors, retire or pass-on. So much warranties then.

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    Default ff43065

    Your latest rant does not deserve a response, again no facts, only opinion and bashing. However, I cannot let you get by with slandering a good company and a very dedicated individual. In case you don't know, RK is a part of Rosenbauer North America , sub. of Rosenbauer AG. I suggest that you look them up on the Austrian stock exchange, they are a very strong company, offer a very diverse and broad product range and are technology leaders in fire fighting all over the world. Oh, and they have been supporting their products all over the world for longer than you, or I, have been alive and I suspect that they will be long after I , at least, am gone. And, Rob K. is a very fine individual who has contributed greatly to the fire service and does not deserve to have himself or his company/products so baselessly bashed. If you have facts for your posts, get them out . If not, stop with the trash.
    As for NewJerseyFFII, I suggest that you contact both Seagrave and RK , get a users list that both will gladly provide and go after some meaningful and reliable input from departments that actually use their products.

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    As I read this and respond, I have a Smeal 75' quint sitting about 50' from me. While I know very little about RK aerials, or their namesake, I can speak from experience about Smeal and their serviceability since FF43065, my friend, brought them up. However, unless he wants to debate the issue, I won't get into specifics right now as this thread is about Seagrave/RK aerials.

    While I am a dedicated E-One aerial fan, other makers build aerials that get the job done. Smeal has nothing that puts them on top of any other. They are another company that builds their version of an aerial in the typical varieties that everyone else builds, with each companys unique "Gee Whiz" gadgets attached, but with the usual satisfactory results. Oh well. My point here is to remind FF43065 that Smeal is not the "Gold Standard" in fire service aerials, just another of the makers which have long time customers and customers that prefer other builders.

    Just my thoughts.
    Last edited by STATION2; 11-02-2005 at 01:42 AM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Well said as usual Larry.Now I'll throw in my two bits.You get what you spec.If you or your rep does not have a good handle on your present and future foreseeable needs you'll probably wind up with a vehicle you won't be real happy with.As far as Central being "low bid"vehicles with high ownership costs: I can't agree with that.We have three Central units that have performed very well for us with no outside costs other than routine maintainence. These are Engines built to OUR specs and they faithfully do the job they were built to do day after day.Our neighbors also have a pair that have experienced no notable issues.As has been often stated here and almost universally ignored,any/everybody builds a "lemon"once in awhile.But if you write a set of good specs with good guidance from knowledgeable people and get a reputable builder and service rep the chances of having a GOOD vehicle that will perform and last well are excellent.If you don't,prepare to be miserable. For the record,my rep is Tomw and he takes VERY good care of our needs.When you can catch him.Fortunately I've got Guido and the "suits". Ask any twenty firefighters who makes the BEST aerial device and I'll bet you won't hear the same name in unison.At least if you travel around a bit when asking.Now how about those Metz?hehe T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 12-10-2005 at 05:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM
    Blueflame: Same boat here. We're getting ready to award the bid of our new mid mount tower today. We, likewise, attended shows, had demos, even went on a three day tour of NY, MA and CT to seen 25 mid-mount towers in current use. We had five bidders:
    Peirce was the highest.
    Aerailscope would have been with all of the exceptions corrected for a price.
    E-One, ALF and KME were within 2% of each other. Both of the above were 100K more than the lower three.
    I'll name the successful bidder as soon as its released, with more reasons why.
    So who won?!
    FTM - PTB

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    We have just received a 95' Pierce Dash mid-mount. 16" Raised cab, 2000gpm pump, 300 gallon tank. I should have some pictures soon, email me if you want to see @ shadgkiss@gmail.com.

    -Steve

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    Default fishing

    Looking at this thread and another here it seems that the manufactures and dealer reps are out fishing for something to make a sale. Hey Capt,Gonzo want to join in here and settle the sand box fight? When it comes to who or what is best it seems that it will always vary based on what you have known, who the dealer is and how they care for you, how the manufcaturer did for you etc. Most of the guys in the field here have it nailed darn well and good and until the makers and dealers can show us all that they really have something that is built perfect and lasts without failure then differences will remain.

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    I visited Seagrave three times this summer. Each time the aerial part of the assembly line had aerials being built from scratch. I dont know if there is any kind of partnership with RK or not but atleast some of the aerials are built by Seagrave. I also saw PG County's Aerialscope being built (from the ground up)... what an impressive piece of equipment!

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    Thumbs up

    Sorry, this thread got lost in the shuffle. Our new tower will be an ALF 93 ft. mid-mount. No tank/Pump. 310-320 cuft. compartment space. 10 KW Harrison generator. Roll up doors, seating for six, Single manual 1200 gpm gun. I think 515 hp Detroit, Jacobs engine brake, aluminum wheels, black over red. Mix of lights LED, Roto-ray, halogens. Will carry 210 ft. ground ladders. We're travelling to Ephrata Monday 19th for the pre-build conference.

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    Default seagrave/RK apparatus

    RFDACM,
    Highly recommend that you go with an electric remote control deck gun in the platform so it can be operated from the turntable. Not having to put someone in the bucket during water tower operations can be a big safety improvement. Just my humble opinion.

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