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    Default Equipment Prices

    I have a question maybe someone can help with. I helped a department write a grant. On the SCBAs the bid came in about $500 per unit below the requested amount. Some of the other items are going to come in higher than the requested amount. Can the left over money from the SCBAs go toward the increased cost of the other items without getting into the $5000 limit on left over money.

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    Yes. The $5000 leftover limit only applies when everything that was in the application has been bought. So if the total cost of everything in the application is still X dollars, it doesn't matter if A cost less than quoted and B cost more, as long as the grand total is still X.

    If the price of the SCBA dropped and everything else remained the same, then after buying everything on the shopping list is when the $5000 limit would apply.

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    Thanks. I thought that was right, but I wasn't sure. When we done ours 2 years ago, everything came in under bid except the TIC and it had a cap on it.

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    OK so here is my situation.

    My grant included SCBA's. The low quote is $600 more than is allocated in the grant. There are rescue shores in the grant and the quote is $8000 less than is in the grant.

    The grant includes $600 a set for turnout gear (cut from $1000 a set requested). I can get 16 of the 20 sets I need and requested.

    If I understand correctly, I can purchase the SCBA's and turnouts at more than the grant budget and buy the struts at less than budget, it is OK as long as the total grant is the same.

    Then if there is any left, I can expand the line items by up to a total of $5000. The rest will go back because as a Rescue Squad, I cannot apply for a prevention program.

    Also, if I cannot purchase all 20 sets of turnouts, do I need to amend the grant to buy fewer than requested?

    Thanks.

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    I'd check with DHS on that one. You may have to buy the other 4 sets with the leftover money first so that you satisfy the application's spirit. So if you only bought 16 sets of PPE, all of the SCBA, and the struts, you'd have to buy the other 4 set sof PPE to make it the 20 applied for, then you could spend any leftovers.

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    See, Brian, I wondered about that one. If someone applied for something, then the price goes up and now you want to decrease your entire project, I just don't know that they're going to let you do that, since you're technically going to have room elsewhere for the funds. Now, they may. But, you were awarded 20 sets. And then you're talking about having extra funding, I would think you're going to have to look at purchasing the 20 sets. Even if you don't buy them all at the same time. You have 12 month to spend the funds.

    Can you not find a vendor who has a better price, or is closer to the original price quoted in the grant?

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    Thanks. I can buy what I wanted in the first place. I have the funds in the grant, in the narative budget, I will have to move funds around from shores to SCBA and Turnout and all is again right with the world.

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    That's totally ok, as long as it's not over the $5K limit (you'd have to get approval then). Congrats! (BTW, where in SC are ya?)

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    dixie, I just ran this by DHS with another department and Brian is 100% right. If one thing is lower in cost and the other higher, you can shift the funding as long as you end up with what the grant stated. The only time you have to ask is if you already purchased all the items and still had the extra moiney, you would have to get approval.You can't decrease the # of items that you requested or said you were going to buy, without permission but, if a little shifting on prices has to occur and you still end up with all the equipment that you stated, and it still meets the minimum NFPA qualifications, you are good to go.
    Kurt Bradley
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    OK, so this is all new to me. We were just awarded Fire Act and now the question arising is, are we required to put out these purchases for bid as we would our normal purchases. I believe we are, and should, but this is not the feeling of everyone.

    Could someone shed some light?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780
    You can't decrease the # of items that you requested or said you were going to buy, without permission but, if a little shifting on prices has to occur and you still end up with all the equipment that you stated, and it still meets the minimum NFPA qualifications, you are good to go.
    That was my point, that you just can't say, because things cost more, I'm buying less. Especially if you'll have funds left over in another area. I was trying to point out that it's okay to take a year to spend the money, if you need to raise more, to buy necessary pieces of equipment, but boy, I would think if you asked for 20 sets of something, you do need to buy 20 sets of something. They aren't going to be happy when they go on a site visit and see 12! (and that basically, you are awarded FEDERAL $ to buy something, so you're kinda obligated to do that, unless they tell you differently)

    But, I think, it just didn't come across through several posts...so in the end, the thoughts of everyone were the same. That you need to get what you requested, unless you ask for permission (to buy less items, or totally different items) and that it's okay if one item costs a little more or a little less, than another line item.
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    You must follow your departments procurment policy. if you have no set policy DHS requires a minimum of two bids.
    Kurt Bradley
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    My point exactly dixie, I knew what you were trying to say and that you understood it but, your brain must be fried from two days of listening to the pschobabble about DOJ grants and the point got lost. Was just trying to clarify so everyone reads that the same. Have another Sombrero tonight! LOL!
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by strobn
    OK, so this is all new to me. We were just awarded Fire Act and now the question arising is, are we required to put out these purchases for bid as we would our normal purchases. I believe we are, and should, but this is not the feeling of everyone.

    Could someone shed some light?
    If your department doesn't have a SOG/purchase policy - I usually recommend getting THREE bids, just because they don't always follow through - vendors (at least at my Volunteer department) and sometimes, we then will end up with 2 for our files. There are exceptions, where there aren't multiple manufacturers/vendors, but if it's 'sole source' and there's only one known vendor, you need approval from your GMS (or POC) in writing prior to purchase.
    Alana Tomlin Denton
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    To clarify, you only have to ASK for 3 bids, you don't have to get 3 bids. Many times some vendors know you're only asking them to have a piece of paper and you're not really considering buying from them, so if you ask 3 and 2 refuse to submit a bid, just get a letter from them stating that they do not wish to compete for your business at this time. Just a CYA move.

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    We put in for a live burn trailer. We listed Kiddie, but I know there are others who manufacture similar types of units. I did not know if since we listed the trailer manufacturer on the application, if we were in fact down now to a single source supplier?

    I personally feel more comfortable getting bids from others out there, but at the same time want to comply.

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    You are not bound to the manufacturer if you specified that in the application. As long as the other product still meets the spirit of the original project you can buy another unit as long as the features match. To give another example you can change from Globe to Firedex PBI PPE, but you can't drop down to Nomex. Not sure why anyone would especially if you were approved for PBI, just using that for the sake of the argument.

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    Default Left over money

    We have been aggressive with our original quotes so it appears that we are going to have $2600.00 left over, do I need to get with FEMA to make an ammendment to spend this extra cash. It is my understanding that we can use this money on additional equipment as long as it meets the guideline of the original request.......and yes I tried contacting them, my contact never answers his phone or replies back to a voice message. Go figure

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    CYA here guy. Wirte and email and a snail mail to him and send it return reciept requested. Bear in mind that FPS peopel have been extrememly busy with setting up FP&S review panels, SAFER and the rescinded DJs that hae to be reviwed by special panel right now so that may be why they are slow repsonding but, get permission in writing beofre you spend. You have a year to do it, don't be impatient. Go online into your applciation and send an email through the mail cneter in your appllicatiopn.
    Kurt Bradley
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    If you've left numerous message, try calling your Regional Fire Rep* through Homeland Security (the people who do the Workshops, and manage your Region) - there are usually several of them, and you can typically get them to respond back rather quickly. Relay your info and what has been going on, and maybe they can shed some light on what's going on. More than likely, as Kurt said, just back logged, between the Grant Admin. people and the RFPS, there really aren't that many to manage the 5,500 of this years awards, plus all of last years winners still working on closing out. Good Luck!

    *if you don't know yours, call the Help Desk and request the name & phone numbers of your Regional Fire Protection Specialist - usually more than one for each region of the country...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dixiechicknc
    That's totally ok, as long as it's not over the $5K limit (you'd have to get approval then). Congrats! (BTW, where in SC are ya?)

    Thanks for the help, I am in Whitmire

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    Quote Originally Posted by SCrescue
    Thanks for the help, I am in Whitmire
    I think we come kind close to your way when we drive 77 to 20 to go to Tallahassee to see the in-laws several times a year. Did you by any chance attend the DHS Workshop in the Greenville/Columbia area in January? I drove down for that one.

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    Now I am totally confused.

    I just got off the phone with my grant specialist and he said that I can not spend money remaining from the shores to apply to the turn-out gear and instead I should submit an amendment to reduce the number of turn-out sets I buy.

    Then I can use the up to $5000 to extend the scope.

    Don’t get me wrong, this is a nice problem to have, but…….

    And yes Dixie, in the old days before I-77 you would have passed through our town, and most likely missed it!!!

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    Unbelievable! Exactly whom di you speak with? Was it just the "help desk", your regional fire programs specialist or to someone in DC? Thsi is 180 degrees opposite of what they have told me on two occassions in the past 3 weeks. Brian, Alana care to weigh in here?
    Kurt Bradley
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    I'm with Kurt, this is backwards from what I've been told on several occasions. You basically have the full amount of the award to buy everything that you applied for in the quantities that you specified.

    The only thing I can think of is because the $1000/set requested was cut to $600. SC, what kind of gear are you buying that the reduction was taken? Other than nomex wildland PPE I can't imagine what you're trying to buy for that amount. Structural nomex costs more than $600.

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