1. #1
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    Default Mutual Aid/Neighboring Depts.

    Something that has been in the back of my mind lately, and has been moved to the front due to a recent event is this:

    Do you have a neighboring FD that you regularly respond with as mutual aid,
    and you're not sure what to expect out of them?

    We actually have a very good working relationship, however there is one that has become a "renegade" and just kinda does things on thier own. I realize that his is a command issue, but it affects everyone involved, and it doesn't
    look good on their part if ya know what I mean...

    I am asking just to see what kind of issues there are out there, and how you handle them... thanks folks!
    Giggity - Giggity!

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    No issues here with any of our mutual aid companys. They know how we operate and vise versa. We all work well together and have the same feelings of "When the tones drop, the bull***t stops"!

    Training with your mutual aid companys will dramatically improve things when the poop hits the fan.

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    we're similar to IGot... we work well with all area departments and very well with the few we run with frequently. there are 3 or 4 of us that are on more than 1 of the departments which not only makes combined training easier, but information learned in "individual" department trainings filters to the other departments rapidly.
    the motto of every midnight shift dispatcher - "I'm up - You're up"

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    we get along with one of our mutual aid neighbors very well. For whaever reason (something that happened eions ago) our other department , is strained to say it mildly.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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    alot of us are on more than one department in the area i for one am on 3 different departmets it helps out a ton.

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    The county in which our Co. is located in, is comprised of nearly 20 differant depts. each servicing it's own district. Our district, one township, has three differant companies. Generally one company is dispatched at a time, depending on the location of the incident in proximity to each company. On average, our company is dispatched along with our sister company for all commercial calls, and "actual fires" (AFA's don't count). Sadly our relationship with our "sister" company is superficially pleasent, as in we get along at calls, but we're always ragging on them in the meeting room about how everything they do is "***-backwards" compared to us.

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    As to the original question, we do have a few departments that don't do things the same as we would like. We deel with them by simply keeping a very close eye on them during mutual aid responses. If your personnel all know who to watch out for (as in the departments as a whole) and your senior officer on scene is allowed to handle any type of confrontation in a professional maner, things SHOULD work out for the best. Does this always work, no.
    Bottom line is the safety of all. Keep the BS at the house. It may be you (or ME) who are the renegades! Sometimes those who are considered the renegades just are the ones with a different idea. Sometime they are just an Adzhole.
    IACOJ

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    I agree 100% with dropping the bull... No doubt about it, and believe it or not, when it's "showtime" that's exactly what we ALL do... Hey, we got work to do. As far a professionalism, I trust each and every officer in our line, and pardon the cliche` but I'd got to the depths of "you know where" with em. And yes they do keep thier eyes open!

    My FD works with 2 others in our area, one of our guys is also a member of one of the other FD's (the one that"s not the black sheep)

    So having a guy on another dept DOES help, if they find something out, they spread the word. (training, techniques,etc.)

    However, like I said, there's the one that still harbors "bad blood" and wants to do things thier own way...that's a shame....

    I noticed that the threads were looking a little rerunish, so I killed a couple birds here and posted something different, as well a clearing my... mind?
    Giggity - Giggity!

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    There are 4 VFD's in our county (in addition to 2 paid depts)...we work mutual aid calls with 2 of them if an MVA occurs on one of the two state highways that divides the county between our VFD's territory and another's...we also have a county-wide agreement that allows any VFD's EMS first responders (EMT-B or higher) to respond to EMS calls in any other VFD's territory. Doesn't happen a lot, but sometimes if no first responders from another dept. call out that they are in route, our department's responders will go to EMS calls in their territories or back them up.

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    Default Mutual Aid/ Neighboring Towns Responses

    We have a number of different neighboring towns that we not often but on occasion do resopnd to such as-

    Chatham Township and Borough

    Harding Township

    New Vernon Township

    Warren Township

    Bernards Township - {All The Time}

    Berkeley Heights

    During the day our response time drops dramatically, mainly due to members either at school or working out of town so if we get a CONFIRMED house fire or any type of a smoke condition during the day, all of our dispatchers have to bang out the Lyons Veterans Administration Fire Department as out FAST Team and if we need another FAST Team we call out Chatham Township. And we respond into those towns if they request us .

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    Unfortunately, bad blood between departments exists quite frequently in this business. Rif's between departments may have been caused a long time ago, but we continue just because "it has always been that way."

    This should be the old way of thinking. As the younger guys move in and the older fellas leave, we should try to mend differences. I like to promote training as IGOT stated. Suggest it to your chief and set it up if you have to. Go to the other department and be the bigger man (with your chief's approval, of course). Ask them to a training function with you. The effort in this alone will sometimes cause a relationship to change. Even if they don't come to train with you, the seed is still planted that your department is willing to work with theirs. That's the first step, and a good one. The day may come when you really need them. Do you really want to worry about if they will be there or not? It would be better to know beforehand, IMO.

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    Unhappy Mutual Aid

    I like that advice and I will try to attempt that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WMFF12
    Something that has been in the back of my mind lately, and has been moved to the front due to a recent event is this:

    Do you have a neighboring FD that you regularly respond with as mutual aid,
    and you're not sure what to expect out of them?

    We actually have a very good working relationship, however there is one that has become a "renegade" and just kinda does things on thier own. I realize that his is a command issue, but it affects everyone involved, and it doesn't
    look good on their part if ya know what I mean...

    I am asking just to see what kind of issues there are out there, and how you handle them... thanks folks!
    We don't get any surprises out of the ones we mutual aid with. We have a MABAS system and also mutual aid through an association.
    We regularly train together, get together for meetings and don't allow anyone to be a "renegade". They are told to knock it off or go away.
    We are fortunate enough to have a state regional training site 15 miles from us and we get together with our mutual aid departments, practice large scale responses, including ICS. We role play with each chief taking his turn at managing the incident.
    If you play together, you will stay together.
    And my favorite; fight like you train and train like you fight.
    CR
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    You all have some very valid points.

    Keep in mind there are some old school FF's that feel that you have to call the closest Mutual Aid Dept to any given incident, HOG WASH!!!!

    On several occasions I called Mutual Aid from departments that I felt (Through Training and Experiance) gave me the best people for the given tasks on the fireground. I even called Mutual Aid for a Department that drove straight by another station to get to our call. I will point out that I was prepared to defend my actions and when the boys and Chief I didn't call started causing trouble about it I layed my cards on the table and shut them up big time!!!!! Issues are to numerous to list.......

    Some of these departments have since made strides to overcome their short comings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by osfd100
    Keep in mind there are some old school FF's that feel that you have to call the closest Mutual Aid Dept to any given incident, HOG WASH!!!!

    On several occasions I called Mutual Aid from departments that I felt (Through Training and Experiance) gave me the best people for the given tasks on the fireground.
    Another thing to consider is the resources each department has to offer.

    I wouldn't call someone with a tricked out grass truck to a blazing structure fire when the next department down the road has a nice aerial or has a 4500 gallon tender/ground tanker (we have spots where water is scarce so we have to run shuttles). Likewise, I may call all the way across the county for hazmat issues.

    All depends on what they have to offer, like you said.

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    Default deputychief

    I believe the thought of passing a neighboring fire department, to call a fire department which is further away is very personality based. If their is a specific piece of equipment which is requested that is a different story. An OIC that bypasses a neighboring department, to call someone else is seriously overlook their job. Which is as the OIC of that Dept, or scene is not lookin out for the best interests of his territory and personnel but,he is looking out for his best interests.
    I believe we are all FFs and like or dislike , we can all grow up long enough to do what we are there to do!!!

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    does anyone else have ways we can train along with our neighbooring companies?

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    First: Let me compare this thread to sitting on a keg of dynamite playing with matches.

    Now: We have one department that we run on everything more than a medical call jointly, train frequently with, and collaborate with on SOGs. We have a great relationship with them and now when we are on scene together with them we work as one. We tried a four department automatic response system but we ran into problems, some personality clashes that I fell were bulls*** and should be set aside, and some logistical that did have to be addressed. However when we started this other departments asked how can they be apart of the group, this led to better communications that resolved many issues on their own. Now what we do may be considered a MABAS system, I do not understand MABAS enough to say, and if you would please explain I would like that. We are lucky in the fact that all of our mutual aid departments are good, and we are all good at when in Rome do as the Romans, not that any thing is don that different. Currently we only use two departments for RIT (we have RIT in place on every structure fire we operate at) and we are their RIT because they we are the only departments that have formal RIT programs with certified RIT trained FFs. Since we have established the RIT standards as a group now other departments are joining in. Not wanting to blow the lid off the keg let me say if standards are set by two or more departments for interoperability the departments on the outside looking in when you do work together of a fire will most likely want to adopt the standards. To set a standard and live with it you will have to set aside the “we won’t call them be cause they did not call us for the feed mill fire back in 1972” attitude.

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    I believe the thought of passing a neighboring fire department, to call a fire department which is further away is very personality based.
    or it could be very safety based. IF you have neighboring departments that don't train, don't have experience, don't educate themselves in anyway, you may not want to add to your problems by depending on them for help.

    For us, we don't call for a neighboring department for a full response, we ask for an engine and a truck, and at the same time an engine and truck from the next over, and the next, etc. We have met with all the towns and shown them our dispatch protocol/order so they know it and agree with it. This way, no one town is getting stripped and needing to call someone in to cover their own area while they are out helping us. The practice has been picked up by many towns in my area. It works well, everyone knows what they can expect, and everyone knows their home towns are still covered.

    Mutual Aid.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Default Mutual Aid/Neighboring Depts.

    I am on a "VERY" small volunteer department in a rapidly expanding metro area. Our mutual aid agreement is with a local paid-call department. This relationship has worked well since we can get to some of their calls faster than some of their stations due to the location of our fire company. The solution we found in order to work together was look around at the other FD's in the area and examine everything from training, SOP's and SOG's, personnel available/apparatus available, distances of responding mutaul aid or automatic aid departments, and ICS each department may use. This has led to a great relationship with many local departments. In fact,on a lot of calls we bring additional personnel durring very busy times of the day. Not only that,on many recent incidents the same ICS system has helped with accountabilty (especially on large structure fire). Hopefully, this helps ya'll out with any ideas you may have. However, a word of caution. In order for all of this to run smoothly everybody needs to sit down and talk it all out over a period of time. Things like this do not happen over night (Though sometimes I wish they did).

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