Brush/wildland apparatus used by your dept.

[bushmaster]

What type of brush truck/field piece /wildland apparatus does your fire department/ company or agency use ?

My fire company runs a 1996 Dodge Ram Extended cab(4x4) pick-up ,
equipped with a 250/250 skid unit ,front mount winch ,and a(removable)
Fisher snowplow for winter weather responses of all types. We run,perhaps
2 dozen brush fires in an average year, where this unit is usually quite
adequate .It is also third run on mva's, to assist with traffic control,
back-up fire suppression , and for winch utilization when needed.

[Ranburne]

We run a 1974 military 5-ton with a cummins engine. Gasoline powered pump.
This was originally a water tanker. It has a 1000 gallon tank. Most of our fires are open land or in areas with small trees and brush. It will go almost anywhere until the trees get to big to push over. It can pump and roll and allows us to stop most open land fires without assistance from forestry.

[UTFFEMT]

We have a 1989 Ford F-250 4x4 with a 250 gallon tank and positive displacement pump for our local stuff.

[BirkenVogt]

Most non-forestry departments in California run engines that carry 3" or bigger, SCBA, 1000 GPM pump, ladders, the whole enchilada but are generally smaller in size than a full-on structure fire engine, the thought being, that we still can deal with structure fires, at least initially until the big engines get there.

Even the forestry engines used by CDF and the USFS are generally quite large, it is just the way it is done here. I have worked wildland engines from F350 to 35,000 lb behemoth custom and I will say that I prefer them larger somewhat. Except for the paint scratches and low hanging branches a larger engine generally goes better off road what with 22.5" tires and a longer wheelbase, and ground clearance that is seen as great on a smaller truck such as an F-series is normal for a big engine. And all our stuff other than pickup trucks is 2wd.

Birken

[doughesson]

We have two Jeep CJ-5s with electric pumps at 16 gpm.On the gear racks we have a couple flappers,an axe,and two brush rakes.
We've been trying to tweak them and change out the pumps.For any call,we also run one of out reserve pumpers for refill and additional pumping capacity.
The dream rig of a couple officers is to have a Ford F250 with a 300 gallon tank,a gas pump(I forget the gpm they want)and a seat on the back end caged up against brush.
The usual tactic is to have them running in the black in echelon right,as the RAF calls it, with two man crews in FWD-low,the lead unit knocking down and the back up mopping up hot spots.Other responders get the flappers and work their way around putting down spots and scouting out any extension.

[BirkenVogt]

An F250 with 300 gallons and any sort of equipment would be grossly overloaded. I used to have all kinds of trouble with the F350s and only 200 gallons, we finally decided to go with an F450 (old style).

Birken

[NonSurfinCaFF]

We have

11- Type 3 engines, mostly USFS Model 62, 5 man cab, 500 gallon tank, 400 gpm 2 stage PTO pump, crew of 5

2- Type 2 water tenders 1500 gallon tank, 350 gpm pump, crew of 2

14- prevention / brush patrol trucks 50-100 gallon tank, 65 gpm aux pump, crew of 1 (a prevention officer).

3- Hotshot crews (21 person Type 1 crews)

2- Type 2 dozers

1- Type 2 helicopter, usually a Bell 212 with a crew of a pilot + 8 rappel qualified firefighters

1- Type 1 Helitanker, this varies year to year, in the past we have had a Vertol 107 "CH-46 Sea Knight" (twin rotors), Skycrane and an S-61 "Sea King". Crew is only the flight crew, no helitack. Carries 1000-2500 gallons in a fixed tank or bucket.

1- Air attack

We also have a tanker base with an average of 2-4 air tankers, but they move around depending on where the fires are so it can be more or less.

[UTFFEMT]

Hey NON-Surfen CA FFr what Forest are you on I use to be on the Angeles on the Tujunga Ranger District at Bear Divide. 1985-1989.

[doughesson]

I may have been wrong on the model of Ford.To this Chevy man,ANY Ford is grossly overloaded.
For myself,I wouldn't mind seeing an original HMMV rigged up with a pump and tank for wildland use.

An F250 with 300 gallons and any sort of equipment would be grossly overloaded. I used to have all kinds of trouble with the F350s and only 200 gallons, we finally decided to go with an F450 (old style).

Birken

[NonSurfinCaFF]

Hey NON-Surfen CA FFr what Forest are you on I use to be on the Angeles on the Tujunga Ranger District at Bear Divide. 1985-1989.

I'm a bit further north on the Sierra but I've been down to the Angeles a few times.

[BirkenVogt]

I may have been wrong on the model of Ford.To this Chevy man,ANY Ford is grossly overloaded.
For myself,I wouldn't mind seeing an original HMMV rigged up with a pump and tank for wildland use.

We have that too, the neighboring VFD has an AMG Hummer (not an original HMMWV mind you) but it has the 6.5 diesel and the nifty gadgets and it is an utter POS. You just can't carry that much water on 4 wheels especially 4 overloaded wheels with tires of a type you can only get from one source (2 or 3 now I think though)...not a good choice.

Go by tire size and it will get you in the ballpark for truck size

100 gallons = 16" tires
200 gallons = 19.5" tires
500 gallons = 22.5" tires

Birken

[skvfd5]

On our unit we have 8 type 6 light engines.

2- Ford F-350 with 200 gallon tanks, 2 person crew

1- Ford Super Duty with 300 gallons and a 300gpm pto pump
(reserve engine)

5- Ford F-450 with 300 gallon tanks, 2 person crew

We also have a Bell 205++ Type 2 helicopter with a 4 person helitack crew based out of the land office.

[RxFire]

Go by tire size and it will get you in the ballpark for truck size

100 gallons = 16" tires
200 gallons = 19.5" tires
500 gallons = 22.5" tires

There are some pretty basic contract engines that are type 4's (750 gal), running on a 550 chassis. They may only have the tank and then expanded metal baskets to hold tools and hose, but they got the job done. More often, it's the type of people that make up the crew that are the limiting factor..

[NonSurfinCaFF]

Go by tire size and it will get you in the ballpark for truck size

100 gallons = 16" tires
200 gallons = 19.5" tires
500 gallons = 22.5" tires

Birken

Not a bad estimate but I would edit it just a bit by adding 16" with dual rear wheels, 1 tons with HD packages and dual rear wheels can manage 200 gallons so long as you don't go wild with gear. Also the 450/550's can carry alot more than 200 gallons, we had an F450 with 250 gallons and even after adding all the gear we could carry we were still 2500lbs under the GVW. So I would alter you chart something like this.

100 gallons = 16" tires
200 galons = 16" tires (dual rear)
300-400 gallons = 19.5" tires
500+ gallons = 22.5" tires


RX fire you are correct I've seen some F550's with 500+ gallons of water, but I've also heard from some that have them, that the truck feels a bit overloaded, 400 gallons is what most seem comfortable with on the 550's, 300 gallons on the 450's. The package on the engine can make a big difference though, trying to pack all the gear for a full size Type 3 onto a mini-type 3, and / or getting a crew cab will take alot of your weight capacity, stripped down to the bare essentials, I could see how some of these trucks could carry more water, particularly on a regular cab truck.

Also agree on the people comment.

[BirkenVogt]

I realize what you said will work and probably be within the vehicle ratings but the thing I run into is the pickup-sized vehicles are usually over-rated by the manufacturers for what they actually are. The expectation being, they will be used like a pickup, that is, empty most of the time, on road. So when you load a bunch of heavy stuff right up to the rating, and use them off road, you run into problems. The military de-rates their stuff about 50% for off road use, which might be a little extreme, but then again, it might not.

I used to run type 6s, we first ran them on 4 wheel F350s but then we stepped up to the super duty, which had dual 16s as you said, but much heavier built than a dually F350. But the 450 and 550 are 19.5" now. I still have a couple of E350 dually ambulances, and I especially don't like the lack of brakes on them.

With a custom fire apparatus, or a true medium duty truck, you can spec the brakes any way you like, but with the smaller trucks you get what you get. So it makes sense to step up a bit into something bigger, even if you don't exactly need it rating-wise, because preventing one crash will pay for it many times over.

Birken

[dfdresq1]

I dont know the years on all of them, but we have...

2001 Ford F550 4 door with a 250 gallon tank
Some POS Chevy 4 door with a 250 gallon tank...this POS actually caught on fire while we were at a fire...but that wasnt our fault.
1991 Dodge Ram 2 Door with a 250 gallon tank
2- Military 6x6's with 1000 gallon tanks
Some huge International that we got from the state with a thousand gallon tank...the thing is so tall that we can put a lightbar on it cause it wont fit in the bay doors.

[hwoods]

1. MY VFD - 1980something Chevy 4X4 Pickup, 150 gal tank, 100/125 pump hand tools, 500 feet 1 inch hose.

WORK - Maryland DNR Forest Service - Cedarville Fire Headquarters: I have a 1998 Chevy 4X4 Utility Body with a 150 tank W/Foam, 100GPM/250 PSI Pump, 1,200 feet of hose, usual hand tools. Also assigned is a 1999 GMC 6500 Diesel Tandem Rollback carrying a JD 450H with a Blade and a Line Plow.

[coldfront]

My Fire Department runs a 2000 ford super duty 4 door 4x4.The truck as a wajax skid unit with a 200 gallon tank with foam capability.The brush engine with equipment such as 1 1/2 attack line,hand tools and leaf blowers meets the standards as a Type 6 engine.

[Deere97]

2003 Ford F-550 4X4 on 19.5
6.0 Powerstroke diesel
19hp B/S vangaurd with Hale pump
300 gallon tank
12000 lbs. Warn winch on after market brush guard
2 working cages with pre-plumbed whip hoses
1 redline reel
1 preconnect 1 1/2" hose
1 2 1/2 intake

Brush truck Texas style!

[Deere97]

Hope this loaded.