1. #1
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    Default Azz whuppin' Guns!

    http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1131286457

    I'd like to know how they made those handguns fully automatic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    http://www.yourdailymedia.com/media/1131286457

    I'd like to know how they made those handguns fully automatic!
    It's all spring kits and a little bit of milling.

    You can do the same thing with AR-15s to convert them to fully auto... as well as numerous other weapons.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

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    They may have been built that way. For instance, the Glock full auto at the end may have been a Glock 18. Same size as the Glock 17 but made to Rock and Roll.
    Steve
    EMT/Security Officer

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    Quote Originally Posted by cellblock
    They may have been built that way. For instance, the Glock full auto at the end may have been a Glock 18. Same size as the Glock 17 but made to Rock and Roll.
    Towards the end it didn't look like a glock. It almost appeared to be a Ruger MK-I .22 which I know damn well can be modded to fully auto.

    EDIT:

    Watched it again. I stopped it halfway through last time, and they do have a MK-I mixed in there... but the last guns are definately Glocks.
    Last edited by Res343cue; 11-06-2005 at 11:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
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    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    Default I'll be damned!

    Well, thank God they don't have much in the clip...I'd think they'd get pretty warm just from the few rounds they do fire....if not scalding hot.

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    Fully automatic is a waste of rounds (and money.)

    Decent clip though.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Fully automatic is a waste of rounds (and money.)
    Would have rather have that than that POS Barretta I was carrying in Iraq.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainS
    Would have rather have that than that POS Barretta I was carrying in Iraq.
    I hear that. Barettas are junk. I have seen several stories about the Army looking to reevaluate its choice and return to a .45.

    You have to wonder about a weapon when the Special Ops folks almost always opt for a variant of a 1911.

    I have seen several reports about having to use too many rounds because of the weak and inneffective 9mm rounds. What good is having twice the number of rounds in the magazine when you have to discharge 3 rounds for the same effect that one .45 round would accomplish.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    I hear that. Barettas are junk. I have seen several stories about the Army looking to reevaluate its choice and return to a .45.

    You have to wonder about a weapon when the Special Ops folks almost always opt for a variant of a 1911.

    I have seen several reports about having to use too many rounds because of the weak and inneffective 9mm rounds. What good is having twice the number of rounds in the magazine when you have to discharge 3 rounds for the same effect that one .45 round would accomplish.
    I agree with ya there. 9mm guns have got little knock down power. The army needs to go back to the .45.

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    Yo- I got rid of my 9mm years ago and upgraded to a .40.

    Now my question to you is- I like less recoil and more control. Considering
    that, would a 9mm be that bad to go back to for home defense?

    Also, why is the Beretta 92fs (9mm) that bad? I have fired one several
    times and they are accurate and worked well.

    Please write me back. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU
    Yo- I got rid of my 9mm years ago and upgraded to a .40.

    Now my question to you is- I like less recoil and more control. Considering
    that, would a 9mm be that bad to go back to for home defense?

    Also, why is the Beretta 92fs (9mm) that bad? I have fired one several
    times and they are accurate and worked well.

    Please write me back. Thanks!
    A 9mm round for "home defense" still proposes the same issue - the round is very small and very fast. Not only do you have to worry about penetration (9mm rounds are notorious for going THROUGH people because they are so fast) but you will have to have more rounds to eliminate the scumbag......er....I mean "alleged scumbag."

    If you are looking for less recoil, I say you either put a stiffer recoil spring in your sidearm or get some "frangible rounds." These rounds are designed to fragment on impact, therefore they do not penetrate drywall. These are the rounds that are used by air marshalls to prevent penetration of the airframe. The rounds are lighter and have less recoil, but are still formidable.

    As for the Beretta 92F, the reason they are poor weapons is multifold.

    They are a very large frame pistol. When I was in The Corps, I could not release the slide, flip the safety, and be immediately ready for the firing position without using both hands in order to adjust my grip. Not good in a tactical situation. Now my 1911, I can do all 3 (minus the safety of course ) without any issues.

    The slide stops wear down rapidly. The armorers are rife with first and second hadn stories of the weapon's slide just coming off in the middle of firing due to the stress of firing. These weapons fire thousands of rounds a year during peacetime. In The Corps alone, Sergeants on up in rank are required to qualify annually regardless of MOS. Add to that the training maneuvers, MPs, fam. fires, training, and what the Grunts put them through and you are talking a lot of rounds. Now you add wartime deployments and you have just increased use and abuse about 5 fold.

    My understanding is that the old 1911 never had issues beyond refurbishment required. The switch to the Beretta was nothing but politics at its worst for which the fighting man is paying with his life.

    In combat, ammunition is weight. Weight slows you down. While a 9mm round is significantly lighter than a .45, if I have to carry more of them around because I need to expend more rounds to eliminate my threat, then what in the hell good is it to me? Give me an effective round and I will eliminate my enemy with one shot vs. three.

    There is a lot of criticism about the weapon and the calibre coming out of Iraq and Afghanistan. This is the first real combat utilization of them where they are being used on a regular and frequent basis. The results are not good for the fighting men and women who should have the best, most reliable, and most effective weapon and calibre to save their lives, their buddy's lives, and civilian lives.

    As I said before, you know the weapon is garbage when most Operators will not use it. Look at Detachment 1 in The Corps; they are using a Kimber 1911A1. The Army's CAG (Delta) is using a 1911 model. Seals are not using it (I believe they are using several weapons including Sig Sauers and H & K - neither of which are in 9mm.)

    Very few, if any civilians or police departments are going to put any sidearm or rifle through the testing, use, and abuse that men and women in combat are going to.

    On that note, I have also heard a lot dissatisfaction with the M-16A2 and the M-4 regarding the calibre, but that argument goes back to Vietnam. Smaller is not always better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    On that note, I have also heard a lot dissatisfaction with the M-16A2 and the M-4 regarding the calibre, but that argument goes back to Vietnam. Smaller is not always better.
    They are finding that the M-4 has resulted in the 5.56mm round being reduced in stoppping power due to the shorter barrel. This has caused a substantial loss in muzzle velocity and therefor, energy the round imparts upon its target. There has resulted in multiple reports of "impacted targets" returning fire.

    They had started to issue the M-4 more widely because of the difficulty employing the weapon from the Humvees. I'm not sure what the total data picture will be, but I'm anxious to see the report...if it's ever made public.
    Steve Gallagher
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    Sharkie- Thanks for answering my questions. Right now I will just stick with my .40 Glock and maybe buy the ammo you suggested.

    I was thinking of going to a 9mm because of the accuracy in competetion.

    Thanks again, Bouuuuuuu

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    Very few, if any civilians or police departments are going to put any sidearm or rifle through the testing, use, and abuse that men and women in combat are going to.
    Sharkie, that's very true but even PDs still have the stopping power issue. Around here almost all the PDs use .40s because the 9mm just doesn't get it done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    Fully automatic is a waste of rounds (and money.)

    Decent clip though.
    Now if you could only make it Belt-Fed...

    That would be fun just-cuz you could do it (at least until it melted).
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    guns are a waste of time and money full stop.
    "There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."

    For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.

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    You're welcome Bou. Anything I can do to prevent someone from making the mistake of switching to 9mm. Granted shot placement is a big factor to stopping power.

    Quote Originally Posted by PattyV
    guns are a waste of time and money full stop.
    As are a number of things, but freedom and liberty allow us to choose the things that we want to in life. Don't like firearms? Don't buy one. Legal firearms owners very rarely commit crimes with their weapons. The inordinate amount of firearms related crimes are committed by people who do not own firearms legally, criminals in and of themselves do not follow the law. Gangs, drug dealers, robbers, muggers.

    I feel the same about alcohol, but it is one's choice to drink. I don't like it, therefore I don't do it.

    Remember, when a populace is no longer armed, they become subjects of the government and are no longer citizens. As attested to in Australia, Great Britain, and in Canada (3 countries that have restricted personal firearms ownsership in the last couple of decades) violent crime rates are increasing rapidly. Yet firearms confiscation is touted as a way of reducing crime. The government's own crime statistics information doesn't bear this out.

    I choose to own firearms, and plan on purchasing more. I do so because I find shooting to be an extremely challenging task to ensure that my rounds find their mark every time. My wife and I enjoy the time together, and the friendly competition of seeing who shoots better.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    You're welcome Bou. Anything I can do to prevent someone from making the mistake of switching to 9mm. Granted shot placement is a big factor to stopping power.



    As are a number of things, but freedom and liberty allow us to choose the things that we want to in life. Don't like firearms? Don't buy one. Legal firearms owners very rarely commit crimes with their weapons. The inordinate amount of firearms related crimes are committed by people who do not own firearms legally, criminals in and of themselves do not follow the law. Gangs, drug dealers, robbers, muggers.

    I feel the same about alcohol, but it is one's choice to drink. I don't like it, therefore I don't do it.

    Remember, when a populace is no longer armed, they become subjects of the government and are no longer citizens. As attested to in Australia, Great Britain, and in Canada (3 countries that have restricted personal firearms ownsership in the last couple of decades) violent crime rates are increasing rapidly. Yet firearms confiscation is touted as a way of reducing crime. The government's own crime statistics information doesn't bear this out.
    Well said.

    I choose to own firearms, and plan on purchasing more. I do so because I find shooting to be an extremely challenging task to ensure that my rounds find their mark every time. My wife and I enjoy the time together, and the friendly competition of seeing who shoots better
    And that is why I always say never torque a woman that can group her shots!
    YGBSM!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie
    I hear that. Barettas are junk. I have seen several stories about the Army looking to reevaluate its choice and return to a .45.

    You have to wonder about a weapon when the Special Ops folks almost always opt for a variant of a 1911.

    I have seen several reports about having to use too many rounds because of the weak and inneffective 9mm rounds. What good is having twice the number of rounds in the magazine when you have to discharge 3 rounds for the same effect that one .45 round would accomplish.

    My brother and I used to shoot a bunch, I had a 45 and he had a 9mm. On the swinging steel plates, the 9 would just barely move them and the 45 would turn them a complete flip! 'nuff said...........I'll keep a 45 or 10!
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    "They are finding that the M-4 has resulted in the 5.56mm round being reduced in stoppping power due to the shorter barrel. This has caused a substantial loss in muzzle velocity and therefor, energy the round imparts upon its target. There has resulted in multiple reports of "impacted targets" returning fire.

    They had started to issue the M-4 more widely because of the difficulty employing the weapon from the Humvees. I'm not sure what the total data picture will be, but I'm anxious to see the report...if it's ever made public."

    The M-4 is a good little close quarters weapon(less than 100 meters) after that it isnt a good reach out and touch weapon. As far as Humvees go you have to have to short weapon there isnt any room in the new up-armored vehicles, although the add on kits are not as bad.

    The biggest problem I had with the M-9 were the magazines. Always double feeding or the spring would stay compressed. Had to pull them apart 2-3 times a day. I was happy if the dam thing fired when I needed it, worry about stopping power later.

    The army needs to go back to full automatic weapons like the Thompson. Small, good stoping power up close and reliable. Alot of the action is close quarter if you need touching power, most sections now have 1 or 2 designated marksmen with M-14's to do the long range stuff.

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    Grabbed this Colt Commander from a Syrian north of Baghdad
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