I was going through some old photo's of mine the other day and updating some album's (digital/35mm). I happened to notice various dept's that utilize frontpiece insignia for rank etc. ie. White frontpieces for officers and depending on the rank would have the classic NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. inserts that represent various unit's with rank's etc. Many fire department's also use the color of the helmet to indicate rank etc. other than white for chief's (that's a given and hasn't seemed to change). Here is the question...Why different colored helmet's vs. different interchangeable frontpieces (depending on the helmet brand etc.). Is it because we NEED to see at a distance, enough red/blue,yellow,orange helmet's amidst a field of grunt's colored helmet's so we know the officer/firefighter ratio is okay, more color to identify the officer in a crummy environment (often can't tell anyway), to determine who should be listening to who and the color determines who you should turn to etc. I'm just curious as to YOUR opinion's and concept's etc. Sometimes it seem's that if you don't have a colored helmet, your seniority, experience etc. isn't necessary/needed/wanted...Just throwing this simplistic, probably useless question out there for something different...
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11-07-2005, 12:09 PM #1
Officer insignia on helmets or different color altogether?
11-07-2005, 12:42 PM #2
I think that this has been addressed before.
Try doing a search.Stay Safe and Well Out There....
Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers
11-07-2005, 03:02 PM #3
Department wide, we had different colored helmets for different positions. Then 1 company decided to go with different colored shields and all 1 color of helmet. The different colored helmets still allow us to get a quick view looking for certain members, the colored shields do nothing unless you are up close and they are facing you. Is it NEEDed? No, but it's an added convenience on the fire ground."This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?
11-07-2005, 03:38 PM #4
I'm sure we addressed most everything at one point...
Yes, it probably was addressed before. Are you going to knock down anyone that jumps on a thread and asks when/where/how to become a firefighter because it was a THREAD 3 years ago? Who cares if it's been addressed before. As long as someone enjoy's posting, let them post. The Fire Service has a constant influx of new people as the... eh hem...OLD TIMER'S prepare to leave...No need to post a comment about an old thread or revisited thread. How about directing someone to the old thread that was mentioned or whatever...?!
11-07-2005, 05:21 PM #5
Some people love to remind others that there is a search feature. I guess they think it would be nice to have only about 15 threads that are each 600 pages long. You may notice, the Webteam, who actually runs the site, is never the ones to remind people to search..."This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?
11-07-2005, 05:40 PM #6
Well I think what the Captain was saying is that folks come in the forums and begin a new thread on something that has been talked and talked about for some 20 to 50 pages. I usually try doing a search on a subject before I begin a new thread. So that I donít get TRY A SEARCH thing.
Needless to say, every fire department has different styles of helmets and they are of various colors, markings and etc.
We have two colors of helmets. White and Yellow. White for Chief Officers and Yellow for every one else. We use the Cairns helmets and their marking system for the ID of the members wearing the helmet. Chief of the Department has a 5 trumpet insignia on the front of the helmet. Deputy Chiefs have 4 trumpet insignia, Assistant Chief has 3 trumpet insignia, Battalion Chiefs have two crossed trumpets, Captains have two vertical and Lieutenant have a single trumpet. The firefighter has the fire scramble on their helmets. All helmets have the company numbers on each side of the helmet. We normally do not have any problems seeing who is who. We have somewhere near 3000 members.
You could have a different color helmet for every rank if you so choose. We decided that we didnít need that. Of system works well for us.OUTSTANDING
Make It Happen
Never forget 9-11-2001
343 Brothers Who Were MURDERED!!
11-07-2005, 06:04 PM #7
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
- Central NJ
Doesn't matter what you put on the head of an idiot, theyre still an idiot. Same goes for true leaders, they could wear a pink hat and people would still stick with them and follow their lead.
Personal opinion...Everyone wears black (our FF's color) except for chiefs. Officers get a white front or the respective rocker decals (if youre unlucky enough to wear a salad bowl )
When you are no longer popular enough to be an officer or if you go up/down a rank; who wants to share helmets? I can't imagine getting your lid all salted up and passing it on to young buck the new Lieutenant the next year. I like the idea of getting your lid on your first day and keeping it til you retire, unless you become a Chief. Don't wash them off either, every bit of dirt you earn represents an expierence you had that creates a unique identity and shows you are doing the job...helmets need to show a little character. Call me old fashioned.
11-07-2005, 08:35 PM #8
We have both over here (Colour & Insignia)...Yellow from Fm to Sub Officer (Lt) with varying stripes then White with varying number & Thickness of stripe from Station Officer (Capt) up to Chief Fire Officer (Chief of Dept) These are nationally agreed and recognised rank marking for the Helmets. Shoulder marking for uniform are different again, following similar patters to the UK Military... Some Brigades also wear then Rank on the Fire coat but we don't in London.
This page from Strathclyde Fire Brigade in Scotland shows them all on one page.Steve Dude
London Fire Brigade...."Can Do"
'Irony'... It's a British thing.
11-07-2005, 09:36 PM #9
the helmet front tells the tale....
Firefighters black lids with black fronts
Officers black lids with white fronts
Chiefs have white lids with gold fronts
Our lids are a mix of tactical tupperware, traditional looking pleather (depending on the Chief who made the initial purchase) and for those who are willing to dip into their uniform allowance for the upgrade....
Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 11-07-2005 at 09:38 PM."The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY
11-07-2005, 10:43 PM #10
At our dept :
Chief/ Asst Chief- White
Safety- Orange (in safety officers vehicle)
Capts/Lt's - Black
Exps- Yellow or Red
Last edited by backsteprescue; 11-08-2005 at 09:49 PM.------------------------------------
These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
11-07-2005, 11:12 PM #11
In our dept.: (About 85-90% still use salad bowls )
All Chiefs.................White helmets
All Capts.................Yellow helmets
All Lt's....................Red helmets
All D/O's and F/F's.....Black helmets
IAFF Local 2339
K of C 4th Degree
"Fir na tine"
11-08-2005, 03:58 AM #12
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
We are as follows
Chiefs - white
Lieu - red
FF - yellow
I do wish we(FF) went to black helmet.
11-08-2005, 05:24 AM #13
All officers -> white with cresent denoting rank
Safety, training-> red
Very simple and works well for us.YGBSM!
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
If all you have is a hammer, then your problems start to look like nails.
11-08-2005, 05:46 AM #14keeping it til you retire
Helmets have much shorter careers than us. They are supposed to be retired after 4-5 years because of fatigue. What good is a helmet that has seen too much sun?!
I know it seems like a cool idea, and i know that you can get attached to your helmet, but would you go into a burning building with a 120 year old work mate?"There are only two things that i know are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And im not so sure about the former."
For all the life of me, i cant see a firefighter going to hell. At least not for very long. We would end up putting out all the fires and annoying the devil too much.
11-08-2005, 10:38 AM #15
Originally Posted by PattyV
- Join Date
- May 1999
- Here, There, Everywhere
You are refering to Plastic Helmets. At that rate one would need 4-5 Helmets throughout ones career. Leather Helmets if properly taken care of and depending on how much use they see will last a guys entire career. At worst case a guy might go through 2 lids during a career. Certainly not every 4 years.
11-08-2005, 10:45 AM #16
We Run the Following:
Chiefs - White Helmets/White Shields
Officers - Black Hemets/ White Shields
FF's - Black Helmets/ Black Shields
Probies-Black Helmets/ Green Shields
All of are officers currently have personal Leather lids.
I dont expect to be around for 120 yrs, but my leather will go down when I do.
2 of our operators with 40 + years of service still wear their original leather, try telling them they have to wear plastic!
11-08-2005, 10:51 AM #17
We use colors and title rockers.
Department insignia on the front
Probie FF's have black with FF/EMT or FF/paramedic rockers
Regular FFs have yellow with the same rockers
Lts have red with rank rockers
Capts up have white with rank rockers
Oh, medics also have a little blue star of life on each side.Fire Marshal/Safety Officer
"No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government"
Success is when skill meets opportunity
Failure is when fantasy meets reality
11-08-2005, 11:36 AM #18
- Join Date
- Jun 2005
NFPA advises you should retire the helmet after 4-5 years. Why? Who is on the committee you might ask? Could it be some manufacturers?
11-08-2005, 02:48 PM #19
White - Chief officers
Red - Captains and Lieutenants
Black - Firefighter
Black w/ orange tetrahydrons - Juniors
Our fronts for officers are white, for appointed position(chief engineer, medical officer, etc.) they're red."Captain 1 to control, retone this as a structure and notify the fire chief...."
Safety is no accident.
11-08-2005, 02:53 PM #20
- Join Date
- Mar 2004
- Memphis Tn,USA-now
Our officers used to wear white helmets and everyone else wore red for certified firefighters and blue for probies/uncertified rookies.
Now,we are going to the idea that the Chief and Assistant chief are the only white hats and everyone else in either red or blue old fashioned helmets with the frontpiece showing the department name,the member's engine number and rank with their department number on the side.
I think the idea of different colored lids is a good idea,just like it is on an aircraft carrier(aka bird farm or bomb magnet)where you need to tell an arresting gear guy(greenie) from a plane captain(brown)or a fueler(purple) from an ordie(red).
Last edited by doughesson; 11-08-2005 at 03:00 PM.
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