1. #51
    Forum Member
    fftrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Northern, NJ
    Posts
    889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    ...for the first time ever, the building was at least partially evacuated. Reason being, the new system is so LOUD, people can't stand it....
    Hey whatever it takes, as long as they get out!

  2. #52
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    I'm not answering you because it has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. This thread is about school fire drills. You said, "Forget the number of drills". As far as I am concerned, whatever you say after this is irrelevant.
    I don't know, I think the perception and reaction to said drills and the causes of such are pretty relevent, but whatever.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  3. #53
    Forum Member
    firehick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Eastern Kentucky University
    Posts
    124

    Default

    In 7th grade a girl decided it would be a good idea to set off a fire extenguisher.....the DARE officer and everyone else in the building mistaked it for smoke and thus the alarm was pulled, the teachers were actually freaking out more than the kids, but alot of the kids at my school had a parent in the fire service or police so i dont know if that was a factor. Adding smoke or a fire substitute, especially when nobody is expecting it can create chaos, hence drills are needed.

    Just my oponion

  4. #54
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    Someone did that where I work. There are freight tunnels in the basement and the engineering guys drive around on scooters in them. One of them thought it would be funny to drive down the tunnel while discharging a large dry chem extinguisher. Set the alarms off. Multiple people were calling in reporting heavy smoke. We could see it on the cameras in the basement. Advised the FD that we had alarms, multiple calls, visible smoke filling the tunnel. When they get a credible alarm from us (not the usual 'one smoke detector' BS), it's always a large response. I think in this case it was a second alarm prior to arrival and I'm pretty they ordered a few helitankers from the midwest.

    By the time the FD and our in-house people arrived, there was nothing. It took a little while to figure out how people reported heavy smoke and now there isn't a trace of anything. Finally they realized they were standing in dry chem powder.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  5. #55
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    924

    Default

    how ironic i read this today cause yesterday in fire intro we were talking about pre-plans and inspections. Our teacher got off on a tangent about school fire drills and he would either snatch a kid to see if the teachers caught it when they got outside, or he would stand infront of a door and say "sorry theres fire infront of this door you cant use it find another way" and it dawned on me that you do really need to do something like that or its not actually real. So I think not only should there be multiple unannounced fire drills, fire officials should also through the proverbial wrench into it and see how the teachers and students react.
    "Let's Roll." Todd Beamer 9/11 first soldier in the war on terror

    "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands ONE NATION UNDER GOD indivisible,with liberty, and justice for all.

    I.A.C.O.J. Probie and darn proud of it.

  6. #56
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    Count? HAHAHAHAHA. There was no counting of anybody in our school. You could go outside and walk around to find your friends, socialize, have a snowball fight, etc and it was perfectly normal. Nobody did headcounts to see if their students were indeed all out. The teachers all stood together in their own groups too. It was a joke.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  7. #57
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,702

    Default

    Yea, I know... complain complain and not do anything about it.
    IF you have kids, don't let this happen at their school. After all, it could only mean someone's life.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  8. #58
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Diane E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1998
    Location
    Maryland (but always a Long Islander first)
    Posts
    1,103

    Default School Fire Facts

    Have problems with schools? Give them copies of information from the USFA-FEMA!

    http://www.usfa.fema.gov/safety/camp...ire_facts.shtm

    http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/tfrs/v4i6.pdf

    2005's Arson Awareness Week theme was fires in schools -- I'm sure you could find a lot of info.
    "When I was young, my ambition was to be one of the people who made a difference in this world. My hope is to leave the world a little better for my having been there."
    -- Jim Henson (1936 - 1990)

  9. #59
    tny
    tny is offline
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    163

  10. #60
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tjsnys
    So they got it in 1959, but in 2005, they don't have a clue?
    COMMENT: Fire drills are a vital part of school life safety. They are a responsibility of the school system governing body, who should set up the proper administrative procedures for conducting fire drills. Fire prevention bureau inspectors should witness occasional drills and report to school officials any deviations from proper procedures.
    RECOMMENDATION: Require at least monthly fire drills with no advance notice given to anyone that a drill will be held. Require total evacuation of the building (visitors, nurses, kitchen help, etc.)

    Every fire drill must simulate a fire condition somewhere in the school, such as a blocked off exit. Pre-planning of different drill routes with all teachers is vital at beginning of school year.


  11. #61
    tny
    tny is offline
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    So they got it in 1959, but in 2005, they don't have a clue?[/COLOR]
    Yeah George, it's ashame as we're all aware history (apathy/ignorance) does tend to repeat itself. I pray to God in this case it never does.

    Stay Safe

  12. #62
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    235

    Default

    Fire drills were not a problem in the school district my first fire department served. Shortly after I became a firefighter, the high school experienced a major fire in the school auditorium during school hours. The last students and teachers out of the building had to crawl on their hands and knees due to heavy smoke conditions in that hallways. Several teachers had to climb out the windows of the teacher's lounge after ignoring the fire alarm (just another drill they thought) until the room started filling with smoke.

    The school district and fire department learned several valuable lessons from this incident. One lesson was that regular fire drills were not enough. The students and teachers who nearly didn't make it out were using the exits they had been "taught" to use. Subsequent drills used inexpensive foggers to create smoke obstacles. We also stressed alternate means of egress. This school was a one story structure with windows in every classroom.

    Another issue we had to address was what to do with the students and teachers after they had been evacuated. The temperature outside was in the teens and coats and car keys were left in the burning building. The school bus garage sent all of the buses they could, but those could only hold a fraction of the students and teachers. The school district soon developed relocation plans for every school in the district that could be implemented in a variety of emergency situations.

    We were VERY lucky that day. It would be too much to expect the outcome to be the same without making some changes to the way the school staff functioned. Fortunately, these lessons learned never needed by be applied.

    Note: At least 6 of the teachers and administrators currently at that high school were students the day of the fire. They have a fire safety perspective that doesn't come from a video or fire prevention class.

  13. #63
    Forum Member
    medicmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    Your real world experience comes from being a dufus HS student. Mine comes from investigating multiple serious school fires (although I was once a dufus HS student, too... a long time ago). Have kids of HS age, get some life experience and I guarantee your perspective on this issue changes 180 degrees.
    George, I have to respectfully disagree with you on your points with nm so far...

    I too did not graduate all that long ago...right at the end of the millenium. But, I think that is kind of generalized to say that we are not qualified to make that statement based on that.

    What I saw...and still see is a degree of complaceny which comes from constantly having fire drills. We used to have them in the winter here...and it gets damn cold...one day some wires shorted, the alarms went off, and half the classes stayed in their classrooms. It happened to fall on a day when the outside temp was below zero and everyone "assumed" it was another drill. Fortunately there was no fire, just a confined area of smoke at one end of the building.

    As far as kids not panicking, we were mutual aided to a large elementary school fire last spring. It occured in a three story brick building that was built in the 1930s. The fire had started in the attic, and had smoldered most of the day (the attic was not equipped with detectors/alarms). At just before 3pm, about 25 minutes before the end of the school day, the hallways became filled with smoke and the alarms went off. Assuming it was a drill, staff led their students into the hallway...upon seeing the smoke, the kids freaked out, and mass panic ensued. Fortunately, no one was hurt.

    My point is, I don't care what this course says, or this book says...this is the real world, and your comments to nmfire were uninformed.

  14. #64
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,702

    Default

    What I saw...and still see is a degree of complaceny which comes from constantly having fire drills. We used to have them in the winter here...and it gets damn cold...one day some wires shorted, the alarms went off, and half the classes stayed in their classrooms. It happened to fall on a day when the outside temp was below zero and everyone "assumed" it was another drill. Fortunately there was no fire, just a confined area of smoke at one end of the building.
    Let me see if I have this right. Your school had drills, but people in the school ignored them and got lucky. So the problem is fire drills? Don't suppose it has nothing to do with the attitudes of the people in the school now does it?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  15. #65
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    I think his point is not that there are too many drills, but that the administration doesn't take them seriously... to the point that people don't even leave. You can have all the drills you want but if nobody is taking them seriously then they are a waste of time.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  16. #66
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ChiefReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Illinois-where pertnear is close enough!
    Posts
    5,636

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire
    I think his point is not that there are too many drills, but that the administration doesn't take them seriously... to the point that people don't even leave. You can have all the drills you want but if nobody is taking them seriously then they are a waste of time.
    And it starts at the top.
    If you tie their MONEY to how well they do their jobs, including leading a fire drill and doing it properly, then maybe complacency won't be an issue.
    If complacency is reinforced by the administration's casual attitude, then panic will strike when it's the real deal and some may die.
    Mock disasters doesn't mean to make a "mockery" out of it.
    Sounds like some school administrators need to grow up too.
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  17. #67
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Memphis Tn,USA-now
    Posts
    5,436

    Default

    There's an anti smoking commercial that shows the various tasks that kids are told to do:take out the trash,feed the dog,clean your room,etc and the tagline was"When was the last time you only had to tell your kid once?Why should smoking be any different?"
    I agree totally:why should fire drills be any different?It is what they need to know to get out of the building if it burns and having them scheduled at the same time on the same day of the week every drill isn't going to help.
    They need to be repeated lessons.As another poster pointed out about the SEALs,it takes abunch of repititions before they get it right and done pretty much by reflex.And we are going to let people that we entrust our kids with decide NOT to teach them how to get out of the school if it's on fire?
    This Navy vet knows that there is great value in repeated instruction.It beats someone getting hurt and another guy standing beside his gurney saying"I thought he KNEW!"

  18. #68
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Memphis Tn,USA-now
    Posts
    5,436

    Default

    Cream is not all that floats,is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by NonSurfinCaFF
    My mom used to teach in a high school, at one time they had a principal who would announce the fire drill 5 minutes before the drill took place so everyone would be ready. Even the teachers knew that was pretty stupid and defeated the point of the drill, luckily that principal didn't last very long (I think he was promoted ) .

  19. #69
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Memphis Tn,USA-now
    Posts
    5,436

    Default

    Cream is not all that floats to the top,is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by NonSurfinCaFF
    My mom used to teach in a high school, at one time they had a principal who would announce the fire drill 5 minutes before the drill took place so everyone would be ready. Even the teachers knew that was pretty stupid and defeated the point of the drill, luckily that principal didn't last very long (I think he was promoted ) .

  20. #70
    Disillusioned Subscriber
    Steamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,475

    Default

    If I as a fire official learn that a school official voluntarily failed to respond in an appropriate manner when the fire alarm system is activated, it woluld result in an immediate citation and meeting forthwith with the Superintendant regarding the matter.

    The safety of these kids is entrusted to these people, and they are expected to perform there duty with that safety in mind. Ignoring that alarm is hardly doing their job.
    Steve Gallagher
    IACOJ BOT
    ----------------------------
    "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

  21. #71
    Forum Member
    ffexpCP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    909

    Default

    Holy crap! Talk about irony. I was just reading this thread and was blasted out of my seat by horns and strobes!

    It was the second dill this year. You know how long we've been in school? Try August.

    Ready for the icing on the cake? They don't know how to work the friggin FACP, so they leave with it still in alarm mode.

    So now we have this thing in my living room making all sorts of noise at me.

    I will be having a chat with someone...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by ffexpCP; 11-10-2005 at 05:26 PM.

  22. #72
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    George, I have to respectfully disagree with you on your points with nm so far...

    I too did not graduate all that long ago...right at the end of the millenium. But, I think that is kind of generalized to say that we are not qualified to make that statement based on that.

    What I saw...and still see is a degree of complaceny which comes from constantly having fire drills. We used to have them in the winter here...and it gets damn cold...one day some wires shorted, the alarms went off, and half the classes stayed in their classrooms. It happened to fall on a day when the outside temp was below zero and everyone "assumed" it was another drill. Fortunately there was no fire, just a confined area of smoke at one end of the building.

    As far as kids not panicking, we were mutual aided to a large elementary school fire last spring. It occured in a three story brick building that was built in the 1930s. The fire had started in the attic, and had smoldered most of the day (the attic was not equipped with detectors/alarms). At just before 3pm, about 25 minutes before the end of the school day, the hallways became filled with smoke and the alarms went off. Assuming it was a drill, staff led their students into the hallway...upon seeing the smoke, the kids freaked out, and mass panic ensued. Fortunately, no one was hurt.

    My point is, I don't care what this course says, or this book says...this is the real world, and your comments to nmfire were uninformed.
    You're right. I am simply an uninformed moron with no experience in this matter. Please, all knowing one, enlighten us further with the knowledge you gained from one mutual aid response.

    1. Did you actually get into the fire?
    2. Did you see your facts in a report, or was it bar talk?
    3. Did you actually speak with anyone who really fought the fire?

    Please, I will stand aside and allow you to regale us with your expansive knowledge gained from one mutual aid response. Go ahead.

  23. #73
    Forum Member
    medicmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    You're right. I am simply an uninformed moron with no experience in this matter. Please, all knowing one, enlighten us further with the knowledge you gained from one mutual aid response.

    1. Did you actually get into the fire?
    2. Did you see your facts in a report, or was it bar talk?
    3. Did you actually speak with anyone who really fought the fire?

    Please, I will stand aside and allow you to regale us with your expansive knowledge gained from one mutual aid response. Go ahead.

    Well, no need to get your panties twisted in a bunch...

    To answer your questions....

    1. Yes, I did actually get into the fire.
    2. I did not get my facts from either source, I saw it first hand...as well as statements made by the fire commanders and staff at the scene.
    3. Yes, I did, see number 1 above.

    I certainly never claimed to know it all...this was my observation....in an emergent setting. It's kinda funny how you will jump all over me for something I actually saw happen during an emergency incident, and you'll compare it to what you saw during the course of an investigation, or what you read in some book.

  24. #74
    Forum Member
    medicmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steamer
    If I as a fire official learn that a school official voluntarily failed to respond in an appropriate manner when the fire alarm system is activated, it woluld result in an immediate citation and meeting forthwith with the Superintendant regarding the matter.

    The safety of these kids is entrusted to these people, and they are expected to perform there duty with that safety in mind. Ignoring that alarm is hardly doing their job.
    Fantastic observation....if you were alluding to the fact that myself as a fire official was derelict in duty in reporting it...go back and read my post again. At the time I was IN HIGH SCHOOL...NOT a member of the fire service.

  25. #75
    Disillusioned Subscriber
    Steamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    Fantastic observation....if you were alluding to the fact that myself as a fire official was derelict in duty in reporting it...go back and read my post again. At the time I was IN HIGH SCHOOL...NOT a member of the fire service.
    You might want to go back and read my post again. I don't see your name in there anywhere. Rest assured, I would have no problem telling you, or anyone else for that matter, that they were derelict in their duty regarding these things. I wouldn't have alluded to it; I would have been quite pointed in telling you so. Don't cry until you've been struck.

    My only intent was stating what I would have done, and have done under similar circumstances. School officials that fail to respond to a fire alarm, are derelict in their duty, and as such will be dealt with appropriately.
    Steve Gallagher
    IACOJ BOT
    ----------------------------
    "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register