1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeNphyer

    It takes the human mind/body 2000 times of repetition to make an action almost natural instinct.
    .

    This would also expalin how politicians tend to screw up everything they get involved in.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by medicmaster
    Well, no need to get your panties twisted in a bunch...

    To answer your questions....

    1. Yes, I did actually get into the fire.
    2. I did not get my facts from either source, I saw it first hand...as well as statements made by the fire commanders and staff at the scene.
    3. Yes, I did, see number 1 above.

    I certainly never claimed to know it all...this was my observation....in an emergent setting. It's kinda funny how you will jump all over me for something I actually saw happen during an emergency incident, and you'll compare it to what you saw during the course of an investigation, or what you read in some book.
    Wow. So you responded to one whole school fire? You're a freaking expert.

    My posts "jump" on you because you jumped on me. You do not claim to be a "know-it-all" but you call me uninformed? How does that work? Especially when you have responded to one school fire but I have investigated several over the past 20 years? I am confused.

    What exactly do you think the scope of a major school fire (several when school was actually in sesison) consists of?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI
    What exactly do you think the scope of a major school fire (several when school was actually in sesison) consists of?
    Gee, I would say a large brick structure built in the 1930's that had 250 students in session at the time which pretty much burned to the ground a fairly significant event....but I'm sure that for you to be impressed it would probably have to have 300 or more students in it...right???

    I guess nothing ever changes....

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    I'm still trying to figure out how a mutual aid department would be on scene quick enough to see the students "mass panic" when they saw smoke while they were evacuating the building. If I remember correctly, didn't you, on another thread, mention your response times range in the 15-20 minute for your first due area?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    I'm still trying to figure out how a mutual aid department would be on scene quick enough to see the students "mass panic" when they saw smoke while they were evacuating the building. If I remember correctly, didn't you, on another thread, mention your response times range in the 15-20 minute for your first due area?
    My point exactly.

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    15- 20 minutes later and people still in a mass panic evacuating OMG how big a school is this?

    (Please sense the sarcasm)
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    I'm still trying to figure out how a mutual aid department would be on scene quick enough to see the students "mass panic" when they saw smoke while they were evacuating the building. If I remember correctly, didn't you, on another thread, mention your response times range in the 15-20 minute for your first due area?
    Please direct me to the post you mention about our response times...so I may clarify. We do have areas that take that long to get to, but our avergage response is 5-7 minutes.

    I never claimed to personally witness "mass panic", those were accounts taken from the first engines on scene, as well as school officials.

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    Angry

    here where i go to school in a high school and back when i went to elementary i always remember us doing fire drills however we did not do as many as we were supposed to. we still dont. i remember our principal saying at an end of the year speech that if we were to comply we would have to have a fire drill every day for the last week of school. we didnt have a single one after that speech. it doesnt seem that rule is enforced. is this common in other places??

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    MedicMaster, you are correct in that I had someone else in mind. As I stated, if I remember correctly which I did not. Sorry for the error.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Perhaps I oversimplify things with this analysis but from reading this thread, studying human behavior in fires, and personal experience:

    Regarding the problem of not taking fire evacuation drills seriously and therefore real evacuation situations- placing the blame on too many fire drills is convenient but wrong. The blame is to be placed squarely on administrators for allowing a lax attitude towards drilling. Simply blaming the number of drills is the easy way out. If the drills are all performed correctly and care is taken each time by the various facilitators of the drill, it will work, that has been supported by truck loads of evidence.

    To some extent, the belief of students that when the fire alarm activiates it is simply "another drill" is not a bad thing, provided the correct behavior is ingrained in the students from frequent and correct drilling. This ensures a calm and efficient evacuation.

    For those looking to bone up on the subject, I'd recommend reading literature from Proulx, John Bryan or Bud Nelson. NRC has also done a lot of human behavior study. One thing I took away from it all is that mass panic and hysteria is an infrequent occurance at best, and largely a myth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42
    MedicMaster, you are correct in that I had someone else in mind. As I stated, if I remember correctly which I did not. Sorry for the error.
    Not a problem man...never took it as an attack.

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