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  1. #21
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    I personally subscribe to the manner that an FDNY Rescue Company handles their covering/protecting of firefighters. Each firefighter is assigned to a strategic positions that if something were to go wrong, they can converge on the victim from several directions. They have even accounted for the hoseline - the Rescue Chauffer is assigned to follow the hoseline in and ensure that the water remains on the fire.

    That being said, many fire departments would never allow this type of protocol. Why? Some may disagree with it. We may not have the discipline for it. It may not be "policially correct" to do in a neighboring town/mutual aid scenario.

    In my department we work on the "six prong attack" theory. Come in from all four sides and from up and down (if applicable). Obvoisly all situations may not allow this, but we determine that in our size up. But not to get away from the original forum question, EVERYTHING usually gets better when the fire goes out. The RIT boss needs to ensure that the IC maintains control if one of his guys goes down. The integrity of that hoseline must not be lost in the chaos.


  2. #22
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    How many members are on your RIT? I mean the FFs that actually go into the structure.

  3. #23
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    FFs that actually go into the structure
    Initially, 4 or 5. When they locate the FF, they may call for additional manpower based on what they find, which would bring from 1-5 again depending on what they asked for. Our FAST response to a residential structure is anywhere from 6-10 FF's plus a Chief or 2. Commercial structure brings 8+. Recently, for a commercial structure, we were able to send 3 trucks with 18 guys. Good coordination and multiple teams setup. We got your back.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acklan
    How many members are on your RIT? I mean the FFs that actually go into the structure.

    One Fast Truck consists of an officer and 5 firemen.

    The Chauffeur could stay outside an operate off a pedestal if needed...but most times he will also be inside.

    So 6 total per FAST unit.

    FTM-PTB

  5. #25
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    Default Reviving a topic

    Does anyone have particular information on FDNY's Rescue Company's methods of "getting into" position as stated previously by Lieu4Life? I understand that they are all extremely experienced and very well versed in fireground operations, but are there any training manuals or SOPs that describe their methods? I remember seeing footage of Captain Hatton (RIP) training one of his members on roof ops, and he basically told the guy, "You are the last one off the roof. When you are off the roof, everyone else should be off, too." It struck me as a proactive way to account for members. Any info would be helpful...

  6. #26
    Forum Member Chiefy's Avatar
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    NFPA requires a seperate water supply dedicated for the RIT team.
    I'm with the majority of common sense on this..........bring it with you, you won't have time to go back for it.
    I can think of 5 different uses for a fire hose in RIT operations that do not include suppression.

  7. #27
    Forum Member WBenner's Avatar
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    Question Water or No Water

    We put so much effort into our RIT/FAST teams when we should concentrate on F.F Survival more. Its easy to say to bring a hoseline with you but WHAT IF the Firefighter that called for the Mayday is on the 3rd floor and rits quickest route is through the 3rd floor window? Bring an attack line via ladder will not be a quick and easy task. If a Mayday occurs and its because of a Lost firefighter or trapped but all other members in the building are not at risk wouldnt they become a RIT aswell. The suppression guys would still contain the fire. And your primary RIT which was assigned RIT would now enter the building as close to the DownedFireFighter as possible. So back to the Survival if we can get our brothers and sisters to realize situations before they happen many lifes would not be lost.
    Im not saying we dont train on RIT but I still think survial and commen scense should provail. I read some one say they would bring in a Giant Ladder. You must be kidden me. The first RIT crew should Locate and a 2nd crew should extircate. MANPOWER? well if you have a working fire and a MAYDAY occurs except for suppression I would hope the rest are getting ready to assist. That ladder must really slow the team down?

    Just my thoughts

  8. #28
    Forum Member st42stephenAFT's Avatar
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    Your post seemed a little confusing to me.

    I know when my department goes FAST to a structure fire, the first thing someone does (usually FAST command who arrives first) is a walk around the fire building. That way, the find the best place to stage, and if the building is large enough, where to stage each search team, and each rescue team for easiest access. If we have enough manpower, we will split into 2 Search Teams and a Rescue team. One search team will remain in the front of the building, and the other will stage in the rear of the building. That way, if God forbid a firefighter does go down, there are search teams at different entrances waiting to be activated.

    Also, another thing my department does is sets up ladders upon arrival. If the in-town company(s) don't have enough ladders set up, we'll take their ladders and throw them up, or use ours off our trucks. We want to be confident that if a firefighter does go down we can get right to them, no matter what floor. We try to get a ladder up on each division of the building to be safe.

    I don't think having a FAST team bringing in a hose line is a good idea. It will take a lot of time to get to the downed firefighter with a hose line in tow. Our FAST team practices to be just that, fast. We drill at a minimum of 2 times a month on FAST operations. They are usually a little over an hour drill, but it's working on techniques to improve our FAST operations; searching faster by going off the pass alarm, mask changeovers, firefighter packaging, etc. But by adding a hose line into the mix, it adds a whole new element. Not to mention will require man power to operate the line while at the firefighter, which takes away from another set of hands to assist with packaging/extricating the downed firefighter.

    If the ***** has hit the fan, a FAST team should go in, and get the f out and not have to worry about dragging a hose in.

  9. #29
    MembersZone Subscriber dday05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAFA62 View Post
    We put so much effort into our RIT/FAST teams when we should concentrate on F.F Survival more. Its easy to say to bring a hoseline with you but WHAT IF the Firefighter that called for the Mayday is on the 3rd floor and rits quickest route is through the 3rd floor window? Bring an attack line via ladder will not be a quick and easy task. If a Mayday occurs and its because of a Lost firefighter or trapped but all other members in the building are not at risk wouldnt they become a RIT aswell. The suppression guys would still contain the fire. And your primary RIT which was assigned RIT would now enter the building as close to the DownedFireFighter as possible. So back to the Survival if we can get our brothers and sisters to realize situations before they happen many lifes would not be lost.
    Im not saying we dont train on RIT but I still think survial and commen scense should provail. I read some one say they would bring in a Giant Ladder. You must be kidden me. The first RIT crew should Locate and a 2nd crew should extircate. MANPOWER? well if you have a working fire and a MAYDAY occurs except for suppression I would hope the rest are getting ready to assist. That ladder must really slow the team down?

    Just my thoughts
    The important part is the fire must still be taken care of while the RIT team performs their functions. I'd say if the fire is'nt being kept in chec then yes the team needs to bring a line. People need to be trained to stay at their positions and keep the fire in check. This could open up a can of worms you know we can sit here and say all this stuff until it actually happens. For example if you were on the attack line and something happens to a ff in the remote area say they got tangled in something I'd say yes I'm going to attempt to do something after a mayday is called as well. There is so many situations that can or could go either way know what I mean? And as far as survival classes yes I do believe this should be trained on over and over again.It could save your life. But you know we have people who think it will never happen to them so they don't need the training.TRAIN,TRAIN,TRAIN...

  10. #30
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    Default I agree :)

    I didnt mean to make my comment confusing, but I agree with dday and stephen. Keep the fire at check if you can. By allmeans if a line needs to be brought in by RIT-FAST ect then do it. The tool Box is what ever you can deploy in a quick and effeciant manner. And DDAY your right about the boys who think it wont happen to them. I personnaly think its a subject in which all fighters must demonstrate and perform before getting on a truck. I dont care if your vollie or career. The vollies have issues with training and manpower but so does the Career. How many Chiefs and Officers send thier guys to training for this subject but dont take it them selves and when a Mayday occurs.. CHAOS... Preventable? YES very much so
    Can we prevent fire fighter Fire Related Fatalties? NO... Well !!! yes if we stand out side and go defence every fire...When those days come I might as well become a COP

  11. #31
    Forum Member st42stephenAFT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAFA62
    I didnt mean to make my comment confusing, but I agree with dday and stephen.
    From the way I read it, we had opposing views :P So you're agreeing with both sides. haha... I guess it really depends on the situation. If a line needs to be brought in, and Engine crew should be deployed. Even if that means, taking men from the FAST team that are sitting outside, and sending them in with a line as an engine crew. But the crew that's the FAST/RIT crew shouldn't be using a hand line, unless it's to get into a collapsed floor and getting a ff out of that collapse (we've trained using a hose line to raise and lower men into collapsed floors, it's quite interesting!).


    Quote Originally Posted by JAFA62
    Can we prevent fire fighter Fire Related Fatalties? NO... Well !!! yes if we stand out side and go defence every fire...When those days come I might as well become a COP
    Then we might as well bring back bucket brigades :P

  12. #32
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    On my job the RIT comapny (1-officer, 3-firefighters) would not take a hoseline with them, only their RIT equipment. A engine company (1-officer, 3-firefighters) will stretch in behind the RIT to cover their postion.

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