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  1. #1
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Angry St. Paul, MN hiring

    If have taken the St. Paul exam, please read and act if this affects you.



    HAVE MAYOR KELLY AND FIRE CHIEF HOLTON

    DISCRIMINATED AGAINST COMBAT VETERANS



    With the hiring process of Chief Holton and Mayor Kelly moving forward, the City of St. Paul wasted no time in passing over exceptionally qualified military veterans. What kind of message is Mayor Kelly and Chief Holton sending to veterans who have served our country?

    Local 21 was contacted by the number #1 person on the eligibility list, a disabled veteran, who scored 105 in the exam process, and is currently finishing Paramedic School. This #1 ranked candidate, who is a combat era veteran, did not receive a job offer from Chief Holton.

    A second military veteran passed over, scored 100 or finished #5 on the list. This candidate is currently working as a full-time Fire Fighter/Paramedic. He has volunteered for two tours in Iraq and has earned an Associate Degree in Fire Science. When he inquired as to why he was not offered a position, Assistant Fire Chief Monogue told him ďmore qualified candidates were availableĒ.

    Local 21 has serious concerns about the City's failure to provide job offers to these highly qualified candidates. The savings alone to the city on paramedic training for two personnel could range from $80k-$100k! At a time when the city should be making sound financial decisions, the city chooses to ignore veteranís preference and the savings of hiring the most qualified applicants for positions! How many more qualified veterans are being passed over? Due to our limited fiscal resources, the city should make smarter hiring decisions.

    Finally, the only common denominators between these two individuals, besides being veterans, are they both may be drilling reservists. If so, the message is clear from the city. Serve your country one weekend a month/two-weeks a year; we do not want you. Serve your country in the time of war; do not even apply!

    Veterans who did not receive a job offer from the city and scored greater than 92.5 should act now. St. Paul Firefighters Local 21 encourages Veterans to contact the Veteran Preference Representative for the State of Minnesota, Military Department of Veterans Affairs (MDVA).

    The MDVA point of contact is Clint Bucher at 651-284-3408; or you can email him at clint.bucher@state.mn.us.

    Mr. Bucher can provide guidance to qualified veterans on all legal options in accordance with MN Statutes 197.455 & 197.481.

    Individuals who feel they have been denied an opportunity, for any reason, are encouraged to contact us for further assistance.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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  2. #2
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    St. Paul is so screwed up in their hiring practices it isnt even funny. Their only goal it seems like in this hiring process was to bring in as many women and minorities as they could.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFEMTMills
    St. Paul is so screwed up in their hiring practices it isnt even funny. Their only goal it seems like in this hiring process was to bring in as many women and minorities as they could.
    You could insert the name of many departments to start your post and it would still hold true....

    Kinda sad when cities pass up the most qualified for whatever.

  4. #4
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    Default Hiring

    Does being a vet mean you will be hired? Even a disabled vet? What would lead any person to think that because they have gotten preferential treatment i.e. veterans points (thats why they are called preference points) that one would be the most qualified to serve in any capacity in any fire department. There are some that are qualified but to assume that everyone is qualified?

  5. #5
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    I forget the exact number but there were something like 360ish people who scored 92.5 or better on st. pauls test. By no means am i saying that the #1 guy on the list should be hired cause i dont know everything about him. But the fact that they are hiring people way down on the list just to help meet a quota, they are only hurting the citizens of st. paul. And SPFDRum's point that the #5 guy on the list is workin as a fire/medic, has his A.A.S in fire science and is a vet, makes it hard to believe that this guy isnt qualified. St. Paul came out before the hiring process and stated that their goal was to hire minorities and women. Obviously they are out to make a point.

  6. #6
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    GWBJR1: Being a vet doesn't garrentee a hire, if you bomb the written or physical, the 5 points you get will not help. But if you are a vet and do well, the 5 points may very well put you at the top of the list. In St. Paul, that is the order you are to be taken of the list. It is then up to you to pass the phsyc exam, background check, and 13 week recruit academy to get a badge. This unless you are a member of a particular protected class that needs help passing exams by some goofy reach down program the city has.
    So to answer your statement; "Does being a vet mean you will be hired? Even a disabled vet? What would lead any person to think that because they have gotten preferential treatment i.e. veterans points (thats why they are called preference points) that one would be the most qualified to serve in any capacity in any fire department." ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! But in St. Paul, the fire department is a civil service appointment and being a vet you get 5 additional points added to your score.
    Like it or not GWBJR1, there are still some cities that will provide some small reward those who serve in their counties military.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber Golzy12's Avatar
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    Why is this just about vets, I think all people who were passed up on the list have the right to be displeased, wether their a vet or not.

  8. #8
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    So to answer your statement; "Does being a vet mean you will be hired? Even a disabled vet? What would lead any person to think that because they have gotten preferential treatment i.e. veterans points (thats why they are called preference points) that one would be the most qualified to serve in any capacity in any fire department." ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! But in St. Paul, the fire department is a civil service APPOINTMENT and being a vet you get 5 additional points added to your score.

    The most qualified person should get the job. Hopefully we agree on that. But just because you get the points doesn't mean you will get the appointment.

    I also looked at the web site for St. Paul firefighter candidate list and the numbers don't seem to add up. If a person is #5 could there more than one person with the same placement on the list and they are considered equally qualified? Could you enlighten me?

    Thanx
    Last edited by GWBJR1; 11-15-2005 at 10:19 PM. Reason: Spelling

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber Golzy12's Avatar
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    Question

    The way St. paul ended up doing their ranking was really wierd, for each test (written and physical) the scores were rounded to the nearest 5 or 10 so 97 would equal 100 and 92 would equal 95. And then they averaged the 2 scores out and added on vets points. so since they rounded the scores a lot of people were tied. So the department created ranks and each person was put into a rank. To break ties within the rank the department created somthing called a t score which is based on the average of your raw scores for each test. Sorry if thats confucing, but it was a confusing process.

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