1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2005

    Default TFT Dual Flow Nozzles

    Mid-Force / Max-Force nozzles, with standard and low pressure setting.What settings do you use most per your Dept. and why. I'm looking for good information on these. My Dept. states we keep them on the standard setting unless in high rise opperations. Your thoughts?

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 1999


    We tried these about 5 or more years ago. They are now relegated to the front bumper trash lines on all the rigs. We tried carrying them on the low pressure setting (Red) to ease the RPM's on the engine by operating at lower pressures with comperable GPM flows. We did side-by-side tests with our old nozzles and these TFT's.

    Bottom line. The guys don't care for them due to the increased nozzle reaction on the red setting. They most often switched them to normal (Blue) setting anyway and we would end up pumping the standard pressures anyway. In my opinion and coming from a department that uses them, keep them in the standard (Blue) setting as prescirbed by your department.

    Other than that, we switched to smooth bore nozzles on our 2 1-3/4" speedlays, 1 Vindicator on 1 of the 2" crosslays and 1 regular TFT on the other 2" crosslay, a 2-1/2" smooth bore on the rear 2-1/2" pre-connect of lightweight hose and with the aforementioned TFT switch master on the front trashline.

    Just a thought.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


  3. #3
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    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee


    A little anecdotal story for you.

    I was at the Monroe Fire School in M onroe a few years back and attended a class on fire flows and nozzles. The instructor set up a scenario to simulate a highrise standpipe with a pressure reducing valve. The pressure at the gated wye was 45 psi. There was 100 feet of 1 3/4 inch hose stretched from the wye with a dual force nozzle attached to it. With the dual force nozzle set at regular pressure it flowed an amazing 13 gallons per minute. I didn't mistype that, 13 gallons per minute. Well, to say the least the TFT users amongst us were less than impressed and called for a switch to low pressure emergency mode. The nozzle was shut down and the switch to emergency low pressure was made and we all stared in wide eyed wonder as the flow meter showed a gain of ONE gallon per minute to 14 gpm. Uh huh, 14 gpm. We chaned nozzles to a 15/16 smoothbore and flowe 118 gallons per minute at that same 45 psi at the wye. Of course the TFT had more reach, about 70 feet versus maybe 40 with the smoothbore, but honestly wouldn't you rather have 118 gpm qand 40 feet of reach than 14 and 70 feet? I know I would.

    The problem is even in low pressure mode the spring still needs a certain amount of pressure exerted against it to open the stem. Depending on the nozzle it may be around 50 or even 75 psi. If that pressure isn't there the nozzle won't open up and flow. The automatic nozzle is pressure sensitive. If more people understood how they worked they would realize that a standpipe pack is about the WORST place to put an automatic nozzle. Either a low pressure single gallonage nozzle or even better a smoothbore is a much better choice.

    One man's opinion, take it or leave it.


  4. #4
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    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    The North East


    FyredUp: That story hits it right on the head. Extrapalate that line(no pun intended) to any line off the truck and you'll have more water with less pressure using a smoothbore. And less reaction force! Sadly, it is just that easy. Unless you bit on the LEFT for LIFE B.S!


  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004


    We did flow testing on TFT nozzles years ago - one of our instructors have demonstrated the "low gallonage" flow to others over the years. Simply put in our eyes was the fact that TFT had too many factors to contend with to get the nessesary gallonage - so they were regulated to backup nozzles on all of our apparatus. We replaced them with Chief's nozzles - the flow well, low reation force and can be changed out to different gallonage by replacing the internal pin. Simple in design, every part is field replacable - using ordinary tools. Cheapest place we can get them is at http://www.fire-end.com


  6. #6
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004


    I have been involved in many nozzle / hose evaluations and almost everytime the TFT comes up last. There are simply too many springs, parts, orifices to get a good GPM. When the SH*T is hitting the fan is not a good time to be switching a dial on some nozzle either. Fyred up echos these stats as well in his posts. We tested the Vindicator on PONN conquest 1 3/4" and can get close to 300 gpm. FDNY recently compared this nozzle to their beloved 15/16" tip and the Vindicator had better knock down, heat absorption. I don't know if they are using them yet, this would be a huge change in their culture. Even though we have these stats people still resist using the Vindicator on our dept. Their reason is great "It uses too much water"....what??? Isn't the idea to get the fire out, hell I can use a booster line if I don't want to use too much water!! Somethings will just never change!!

  7. #7
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    Join Date
    Oct 2002

    Default Nozzlerama

    We had the vindicator guy in to do some demo/flow test. We were an all TFT shop prior to his flowtesting eyeopener. The problem with TFT nozzles is maintenence. They sit in a crosslay for years with water in them and coorode, and seeze-up. The only way to tell that they are functioning properly is to flow meter test them. We took four tft nozzles OOS that day. The spring design will always give you a good pattern, but you never know what the gpm is. We only run the tft on our trash/foam line. The rest is vindicator or sb.

    We talked with fdny about the vindicator testing. The gpm was good. But they don't have the punch/penetration of a sb. We found the same when trying to put out debris after a truck fire. They wouldn't penetrate the pile of junk on the floor.

    Put the tft in the trophie case next to the bronzed pickhead axe

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