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  1. #21
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    I saw the Nerd Signal flashing in the sky, so I zipped over as fast as I could click.

    http://www.jusspress.com/photos/4449...119/114744.flv

    Copy and paste into your browser and it will prompt you to save the file. It is a Macromedia Flash Video file, so your options are limited with it when you download it. Well, severely limited, you have to have Flash to even view it. Somewhere around here I have it, another piece of software I had to have and still haven't installed. Details.


  2. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber nozzelvfd's Avatar
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    Video is great but like some said shows some important errors.
    The song is awsome. I thinks me just found a great response song....LOL!!!
    You need only two tools: WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldn't, use the duct tape.

  3. #23
    Forum Member Pierce151's Avatar
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    The video's pretty awesome, at least the concept is. The problem is that it's glorifying situations in which people can and do get hurt; which need to be taken seriously.
    Montgomery Township Vol. Co. #1
    Station 45, Belle Mead, NJ

    Franklin District #2 Fire
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  4. #24
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    The video (segments of which have been circulating around the internet for years) does indeed portray the Los Angeles Fire Department - and other agencies.

    About ten times a year, I learn that these are again making their internet rounds when my e-mail box fills with a million and one "I gotta have..." requests.

    I regretfully don't have the time to dig through our Fire Department and news archives to find such footage, much less have it dubbed to VHS or DVD and distributed - so please don't ask.

    FWIW, the Firefighters pictured are doing some things right, and other actions that offer lessons in 20/20 hindsight. Then again, they are edited video clips that fail to - as my friend Paul Harvey says, tell "the rest of the story".

    FWIW, the LAFD vents working fires far more often than weekly, and as one might imagine, no two are alike. The small cuts mentioned are usually either smoke indicator holes or 45-degree inspection cuts.

    A smoke indicator hole is a small triangular hole cut through the roof decking (sheathing and roofing material) with a chain saw or axe. A smoke indicator hole is used to indicate smoke and fire conditions directly below the indicator hole.

    At the LAFD, smoke indicator holes are suggested along the path of access or egress every few yards. Smoke indicator holes are continually monitored to ensure all routes of travel and escape are safe throughout the roof operation. When placed directly in an area where a roof crew is working, they give a good indication of changing conditions, which may be vital for the safety of
    the roof ventilation team.

    If rafter type and rafter direction are unknown, a 45-degree inspection cut can tell you the rafter type and rafter direction, the sheathing type, the thickness of roof composition and when complete, it can act as a smoke indicator hole.

    A 45-degree inspection cut is accomplished by cutting through the roof decking at a 45-degree angle toward or away from any exterior wall. A 45-degree cut will ensure the saw will intersect a structural member. When the saw makes contact with a rafter, we roll over the rafter and continue the cut for approximately 6 to 10 inches. We then complete the cut by removing a small triangle of decking directly over the structural member.

    In closing, kudos to those who labeled the offering as some manner of "entertainment" rather than training. The Firefighter pictured falling through the red tile roof was from Phoenix, AZ - I am told he survived, while the other Firefighter was from the LAFD. He survived his fall with minimal injuries.

    So please, watch videos if you must and then get up out of your chair and puhleeez:

    Train As If Your Life Depends Upon It... Because It Does!

    Brian
    Last edited by LAFDPSO; 11-20-2005 at 09:35 PM.
    Please no e-mail. Public replies only. Thank you!

  5. #25
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    OH BOY...One of the big dawgs just showed up, one of my mentors...Brian. Thanks for sheding some light on the subject.

    Take care...Brett

  6. #26
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    The Phoenix firefighters were the ones on the heavy tile roof. The first one that went through the roof received burns that were non-life threatening. The others were only slightly injured - non injured.

    As I understand it, the Phoenix FD took that fire as a lesson and did some testing on ventilating truss roofs of various coverings under identical fire conditions. The time frame for collapse when under load were ALL scarier than they had expected (the basic asphalt didn't perform all that much better than the heavy tile) They now have a SOP that virtually avoids putting guys on truss roofs in most situations.

  7. #27
    cgerdes97
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitsua98
    I sure hope that the guys who fell through those roofs were ok afterwards...
    ... one of the firefiighters that fell through the roof works for Phoenix Fire Department. One of a friends dad, and he still has the burnt up SCBA in his garage. Thank God he is still alive.

  8. #28
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    .....

    As for the video-production complaints, my feeling is, if it will make firefighters watch, and remember what can go wrong, it is worth viewing. Otherwise, maybe we all just oughta bury our heads in the sand in cry, "It wont happen to us! It won't happen to us!" That's what the fire service has done for 200 years, and we still manage to kill off 100 of us every year. Watch and learn.
    Last edited by jaybird210; 11-21-2005 at 08:55 AM. Reason: DAMMIT! An expert beat me to it....
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  9. #29
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    I'm not suggesting we pretend the video doesn't exist and make like nothing ever happened. My point is people getting their jollies off this video as a form of 'cool' entertainment. There is nothing entertaining about nearly being killed.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  10. #30
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    Well I thought the video was cool and Social D is probably the most underrated band in rock. Good vid - great music. I suppose none of the critics have watched a highlight tape of wrecks from a car race or sporting event. Was wide world of sports wrong for showing the agony of defeat????

  11. #31
    Forum Member Maverick9110E's Avatar
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    i may be wrong but arent you supposed to make a bunch of small cuts to see where to make the one big cut? for example make a small cut here and if nothing shows up go somewhere else, and when you find where you need to be, then cut that hole bigger and bigger?

  12. #32
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    I challenge anyone here to find a link to this video in WMV or MPEG. Com'on Techies, one of you can do it!!!!!

  13. #33
    Forum Member Pierce151's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoFF
    Well I thought the video was cool and Social D is probably the most underrated band in rock. Good vid - great music. I suppose none of the critics have watched a highlight tape of wrecks from a car race or sporting event. Was wide world of sports wrong for showing the agony of defeat????
    Social Distortion is definitly PUNK... (Shivers)
    Montgomery Township Vol. Co. #1
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9110E
    i may be wrong but arent you supposed to make a bunch of small cuts to see where to make the one big cut? for example make a small cut here and if nothing shows up go somewhere else, and when you find where you need to be, then cut that hole bigger and bigger?
    Yes, MAVERICK, they are used to get placement correct, but there are many other uses of small inspection cuts.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAFDPSO
    At the LAFD, smoke indicator holes are suggested along the path of access or egress every few yards. Smoke indicator holes are continually monitored to ensure all routes of travel and escape are safe throughout the roof operation. When placed directly in an area where a roof crew is working, they give a good indication of changing conditions, which may be vital for the safety of the roof ventilation team.
    Because we cant see through plywood and shingles, these cuts are very useful when you can't see fire conditions under the roof you are standing on. We all want to come off the roof safely. Just remember to have someone monitoring the placement and smoke conditions coming out of them. Close attention is needed to ensure you dont accidentally step off into one of them.

  15. #35
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    What is it with firefighters who cut holes in a roof with fire VENTING all around them? There's absolutely no point to it, the fire's already venting! All you're doing is unnecessarily risking your life.....

  16. #36
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    What is it with firefighters who cut holes in a roof with fire VENTING all around them? There's absolutely no point to it
    Tell that to the guys on the knob that are stuck in the hallway!

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berks2Montco84
    What is it with firefighters who cut holes in a roof with fire VENTING all around them? There's absolutely no point to it, the fire's already venting! All you're doing is unnecessarily risking your life.....
    I'm glad you aren't the roofman in the Ladder Co. anywhere near me.

    FTM-PTB

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berks2Montco84
    What is it with firefighters who cut holes in a roof with fire VENTING all around them? There's absolutely no point to it, the fire's already venting! All you're doing is unnecessarily risking your life.....

    Your not unnecessarily risking your life. YOur helping the brothers in the engine!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by firefiftyfive; 11-22-2005 at 02:40 PM.

  19. #39
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    Yeah! How dare they want to vent as much heat and provide as much visibility possible to the guys inside. What are they, morons? Or could they be DOING THEIR JOB?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berks2Montco84
    What is it with firefighters who cut holes in a roof with fire VENTING all around them? There's absolutely no point to it, the fire's already venting! All you're doing is unnecessarily risking your life.....
    I have fought fires in garden style apartment buildings where the fire has gone past interior "firewalls" and "firestops" (damn contractors!) in the cockloft area under the roof to involve another apartment. The fire venting through the hole may be an entirely different apartment unit burning.

    We too will make a bunch of small inspection holes to determine where to put the big honking vent hole or the trench cut.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 11-24-2005 at 08:24 PM.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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