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  1. #1
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    Content deleted by author.
    Last edited by Firefighter807; 07-08-2009 at 08:03 PM.

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    All you have to do is get a TIA issued by NFPA to change 1901 standard.

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    Talking

    We starting with Peirce tankers?

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    Post Not that easy!We need our tankers/tenders.

    Lets design them per NFPA standards.

    Lets allow Motor Vehicle Enforcement in all states to inspect and park unsafe fire service tankers.

    Wear you seatbelt and lets response non-emegency with all water tankers/tenders unless a officer upgrades.

    NO MORE HOMEMADE TANKERS!
    Always a day late and a dollar short!

    Hillbilly Irish!

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    Must be the tankers.Couldn't POSSIBLY be the wheel holder(driver?).Driving ANYTHING with liquid in it takes special skills.Aerial devices also included in this group. Study the tanker accident stats.They ALL come down to one of several factors: Driver inexperience,Speed,catching a road edge,inadequate brakes,some say unbaffled tanks but if they are full the baffles have little effect.So what's the answer? Better maintainence program.More frequent and better driver training.Maybe limiting tanker operations to EXPERIENCED truck drivers. We use a bunch of them around here both homemade and factory.I don't recall ever "losing" one in the immediate area with the exception of one that slid off the road on black ice at about 5 mph and side tipped. Factory built but no fault of the truck. Get rid of tankers? The Tanker IS NOT the problem.Improper operation of the tanker is. And rural communities would be hard pressed to fight fire without them. T.C.

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    Learn how to drive them...its not like an engine or a rescue especially when they push 4000 gallons...the driver most defiantly needs some prior experience with Class 8 trucks to be a safe driver and know how to handle the truck, I think tanker drivers should be required to have a class B CDL....

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    Default 807 ?

    Before we make tankers an endangered species, why do we need to rid ourselves of tankers ? Please post your information.

    I am not sure about other states but I belive in Illinois all apparatus drivers and or members are required to possess Class B Non CDL driver license.
    Last edited by edorolin; 11-25-2005 at 06:30 PM.

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    Exclamation Training Requirements and Truck Inspections!Feds should require!

    I agree totally with increase drivers training for tanker/tender operators.Why should we be exempt from CDL or some kind of EQUAL testing.Most states exempt fire departments from CDL and or vehicle inspections.(Kentucky)The family in the mini van we meet on the road is just as important as the family at the emergency scene.
    Always a day late and a dollar short!

    Hillbilly Irish!

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    Sure, lets get rid of all tankers, and what exactly would we replace them with? Or should we not and just let the houses burn?
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    Pumpers are involved in MVA incidents every year with fire fighter injuries or worse. Should we quit using pumpers also?

    The realistic approach is to emphasize training specifically for these heavily ladened rigs. They are different to drive than pumpers, rescues and aerials. Also, try and strengthen the specs on tankers and really try to be prohibitive of rigs-turned-fire service-tankers that were not built for the fire service, but rather conveniently converted.

    Just some thoughts.

    And some beat me to Pierce comment. LOL.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Quite a few "shop/homemade" tankers around here. ALL are well built and as safe as anything I've seen built "factory". Like Larry says,you've got to have a good "foundation" to work with. Old fuel trucks can be safely converted as long as you put a good chassis under the PROPER size tank.Even the "unsafe" conversions,when operated by a good operator(who realizes that tankers are support,not primary first arrivers) will perform the water hauling mission with no issues.When you're driving a rig with a high center of gravity and a load factor sometimes approaching 60K you need to drive with your head,not the right foot pushed clear to the radiator. We've still got an old fuel conversion.But it's 2500 on a L800 and heavy spec all around. Until funding becomes readily available,I expect the truck to continue to do what it was built for 9-10 years ago.Haul water. Not a fast truck,about 55 right on the rug.But it's steady and safe.Too many people in too big a hurry today who operate WELL outside their experience curve. I've got a dozen in the yard now due to 2" of snow in the road.They just don't seem to be able to slow down. Oh well,it pays the bills. T.C.

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    The problem isnt the tanker, its the operators. Im pretty sure every fatal tanker crash report Ive read says the rig rolled and the driver was thrown. How about slowing down and wearing a seatbelt?
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    Angry

    Get rid off tankers? Must be you took a little time off from your day job as a brain surgeon to play on the board. One thing I hate more than stupidity(see above statement about banning tankers) is someone who takes a brother firefighters death and tries to use to to promote their own political agenda.

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    Might I suggest something that works in aviation and marine:

    The pilot in command, captain, or driver is 100% responsible for what happens to the vehicle/craft. That is the way it has to be. That is the only way it can ever be.

    The operator must never exceed the capabilities of the vehicle. As an extreme example, a good driver could get a 40,000 lb engine with only one working front brake to the scene of a fire without endangering anybody or anything if he so chose. He might never exceed 5 mph but he could eventually make it there. Just a matter of how slowly. Just drive the vehicle within its limitations.

    Might I suggest a few things on these tenders/tankers:
    1. Only the most experienced and qualified drivers should operate them.
    2. Seat belts must be worn at all times.
    3. SLOW THE $(*@ DOWN!!!!

    By the way there is nothing whatsoever wrong with a converted road tractor as a tender providing it is speced right. In fact it usually makes a better one since the department can afford options they would not have if they had to buy new. The larger engine with Jake brake. bigger brakes and better transmission you will get by buying used will make for a much safer vehicle for the same money. I know this because we have one of the "fire service built" ones, all the surrounding FDs have converted tractors and they are much better. The only thing ours has going for it is a lower center of gravity because it was built with such a long, low tank.

    Birken

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM
    We starting with Peirce tankers?
    ???

    Why not ban US Tanker?
    FTM - PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD1983
    ???

    Why not ban US Tanker?
    Because he just caught you hook, line, and sucker.

    Err, I'm sorry. Sinker
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

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    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    Default Bvfd1983

    Please state in your expert opinion why US Tanker should be banned? We would like to know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by edorolin
    Please state in your expert opinion why US Tanker should be banned? We would like to know?
    Because it's not PIERCE!
    Quote Originally Posted by ThNozzleMan
    Why? Because we are firemen. We are decent human beings. We would be compelled by the overwhelming impulse to save an innocent child from a tragic, painful death because in the end, we are MEN.

    I A C O J
    FTM-PTB


    Honorary Disclaimer: While I am a manufacturer representative, I am not here to sell my product. Any advice or knowledge shared is for informational purposes only. I do not use Firehouse.Com for promotional purposes.

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    Here we go....

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    Might I suggest a few things on these tenders/tankers:
    1. Only the most experienced and qualified drivers should operate them.
    2. Seat belts must be worn at all times.
    3. SLOW THE $(*@ DOWN!!!!
    I couldn't have said it better!

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    Quote Originally Posted by edorolin
    Please state in your expert opinion why US Tanker should be banned? We would like to know?
    Please state in your expert opinion why Pierce tankers should be banned? We would like to know?
    FTM - PTB

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    Default Bvfd1983

    Before this thread blows up and gets way off track from the issue at hand which is safety, training and fire departments operating safe tankers for fire fighters to operate.

    1) I have never slammed your beloved pierce brand, not once or any other manufacturer. Re-read this thread or any other.

    2) Even though I represent US Tanker, Sutphen and SVI in Illinois, I pay the same amount to belong to the firehouse site as you or anyone else. You are truly entitled to your opinion. Most people are seeking help or a solution to an issue, not as you have stated numerous times everybody else sucks and your sold.

    3) Next Illinois trade show, please stop by and visit with me, I am sure you have a lot to offer.

    4) You need to be real carefull about your comments about other manufacturers. When you sign on as BVFD and the picture of the Bartonville Pierce Engine is shown are you an official representative of the department when you make statements?

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    I was wanting to know why the "ban Pierce tankers" was injected to this thread.

    I said "ban US Tanker" because that was the first tanker manufaacturer that came to mind. I guess I can change that to XYZ Tanker if it makes you happy.

    I speak for myself and no others, just like most everyone on here.
    FTM - PTB

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    I think I did talk to someone from SVI... I'll have to look, but I think I have a card stashed somewhere.
    FTM - PTB

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    The "Ban Pierce Tankers" comment came because of Firefighter807 saying to ban all tankers. Given his usual zeal about Pierce being the end all, be all and that any other maker builds an inferior apparatus, the suggestion was made to ban Pierce tankers 1st. Thats where it came from.

    As for U.S. Tanker, S & S, 4 Guys, Foutz Brothers, Pierce, E-One, etc. they build good rigs just like everyone else. It comes down to operator proficiency more than anything combined with sound and thorough department S.O.P.'s.
    Last edited by STATION2; 11-27-2005 at 03:35 PM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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